OverWintering Concerns

[Tango]

Reading about the droughts and floods, I feel fortunate that we haven't had such extremes here in TN. We are having drier weather and the hay in some parts won't be as plentiful as last year but we're doing better than our brothers and sisters in the hard hit areas. My concern stems from facing something like a two year drought or call-the -ark -in flood. I have about 20 acres in good pasture and about 5 in bog which has grass. Currently here I have only my three horses ( a paint mare and two Belgians, and a sow and w/ her two squealers. Over winter I'll have my Jersey and her calf, two more Jersey calves under 6 months, plus possibly an adopted calf on the Jersey.

I want to scale myself for ease in wintering and am wondering if hay were ever scarce or extremely expensive what numbers of cows and horses could I overwinter with ease here? I will feed grain, about 3-5 pounds per large animal with corn.

Last year I had my yearling bull another cow and two heifers in addition to my goats and the above mentioned livestock. I went through 22 round bales and about 70 square bales from Mid October through end of March. IMO I overspent and the goats wasted a lot; the square bales will be in hay feeders this year. We only had snow on the ground for three days and the frosts let up and we still had grass. This year I'm buying 100 square bales. Am I in the ball park if we have an average winter?

[JeffNY]

There is about 15 squares to a round bale, so it would be about 330 squares to the 22 round bales you fed.


It is always good to have more feed, than not enough.



Jeff

[Tango]

Thanks Jeff. I agree having more is much better. I'm pretty sure I misworded the post. I wasted a lot of hay last year. Much of the squares were wasted thanks to my goats and thanks to not having racks. There was a lot of forage not taken advantage of because I was feeding grain and hay was available free choice. I would think it would be wise to let the livestock take advantage of the forage first, then hay, then some grain for fuel. Granted last winter, my first winter here, may have been a mild one.

[uncle Will in In.]

Tango, If your pasture has much growth going into the winter, the horses will make much of their living from it. I would give most of the grain to the cow (is she milking) and the calves. Limit the amount of hay they get to reflect how well they are fleshed. The cattle needs all they can eat, but the horses shouldn't. They aren't growing or working. A mainteance diet is sufficient. A round bale feeder will pay for its self, but horses need a different type than cattle. They can stay outdoors all winter. a little windbreak is the only protection they require. I would shut the cattle near the buildings at night to eat away from the horses. A square bale spread on the pasture in the evening should keep the horses in condition. A lot depends on what the pasture provides.

[agmantoo]

Tango, now is the time to start concentrating on rotational grazing. I feel comfortable in saying that I could take your entire "herd" through winter without any baled hay. Next month I will begin my efforts to prepare for winter by adding fertilizer. I will apply fertilizer in late August while it is still hot and considered by many to be too hot and too dry. I have learned that with the nights starting to cool and with dew falling that I will get a response from the early nutrient application. My herd will be rotated based on growing conditions of the grass and my preception of how the grass that I will stockpile is amassing. If the grass is abundant I will manage it less (less work for me) and let the cattle waste more. If the grass is stressed and producing poorly due to weather conditions I will place my efforts into utilizing the grass as efficiently as necessary. To do so, I will limit the herd to 2 periods per day of where they can consume all the grass they can in 45 minutes (90 minutes total per day) It is mind boggling as to how small an area can maintain a herd of 140 cows and calves if utilized. Last winter I fed the herd for 8 days on approximately 5 acres.

[Tango]

Rotational grazing is my goal but the fencing both its initial cost and the labor to install a post into rock is prohibitive. I'm working on repairing existing permimeter fencing and then I want to fence off a section of pasture that is close to ten acres to provide for my own hay blend with a little alfalfa and no fescue. Rotational fencing is after. When I do start installing the fence I'll probably do three posts per day- at that rate it should take me a year to finish the posts patience! The fertilizer is already on my "to do" list for ealry September - our ground is solidly dry now and the creeks are drying up

My horses were fat and shiny all winter long. My neighbors's horses were neither fat nor shiny but managed quite well on foraging throughout the winter, except for the few days the ground was covered with snow. I think I'll just add corn in the morning and let them find the good stuff in the out of the way places. And adjust as needed. My yearling Belgian will probably need more than this. With so much space and so few livestock my feed bill was ridiculous and stupid Thanks for the help

[Bearfootfarm]

Do you plant any winter grasses for them? Rye (grain) and rye grass will both grow through the winters here (Eastern NC) and also green up early in the spring before many other grasses will. Im not sure how they would do where you are but there may be other cool season grasses that coul dcarry you through without so much hay. And big bales are the way to go IF you have feeders to cut down on the waste. Good luck!

[Tango]

Thanks Bearfootfarm. I have round bale feeders, just no tractor to set them out or stack them and no trailer to haul them home. I don't want to rely on a another person. I'll check into rye with the county ext. agent. Last winter I didn't notice any green grass.

[Rick Allen]

For some reason rotational grazing along with clipping seems to keep weeds down and the grass grows faster. I think animals tend to be less selective when they're moved around and almost everything gets eaten. For cattle I just use one strand of the plastic and steel woven wire and step in posts. The cows won't even walk over the wire when its laying on the ground. Goats are a whole other ball game.

Roung bales are hard to feed without a way to move them. Last winter I bought a dozen round bales that was older cheap hay but full of clover. I set them on top of a hill that had poor grass and a large number of bare spots and ran some electric fence around them. Before I'd feed a bale I'd sprinkle perinial rye seed on a bare spot and roll the bale down to that spot. I didn't have a hoop so twice a day I'd just pile it back up with a fork. Little was wasted. I'd wait until they had scrounged everything off the ground they could and were scavaging other grass for at least two days before I'd feed the next bale. This spring that whole hillside is covered with red clover and rye. I've fenced it off until it goes to seed then I'll let the cows spread the seed around the property.

I'd make sure I had enough hay for just about any condition, cover it, and use what was left the first of next winter if need be. The worst thig that can happen is you run out of hay in a snowstorn.

[Tango]

Originally Posted by Rick Allen

The worst thig that can happen is you run out of hay in a snowstorn.

That is kind of what happened to me last year, though snowstorm is really not the word for it in southern TN. The first time it snowed and actually stayed on the ground was in mid March when I had run out of hay. I found some square bales for $5 at the coop though. Maybe I'll stock up on 100 sq. bales of the good stuff and another 50 of the regular cow hay this year and won't set them out until they are looking at me and going "huh?"

[milkinpigs]

Tango, not sure where you buy feed in your area but if you can find a feed with a lot of cottonseed hulls in it, that will help stretch or replace quite a bit of hay with little or no waste and would be easy for you to handle.

[Tango]

Thanks milknpigs (when I first saw your name I thought, well , you know... that you milked pigs ) I can buy all sorts of feed around here. My uncle used to feed rice hulls. Is that about the same?

[milkinpigs]

Rice hulls and straw, citrus pulp,almond hulls, beet pulp.........lots of alternatives to hay ......just think of having your cattle on a high fiber diet....my grandpa used to say" you have to keep their guts working"....and of all feeds available you can't beat oats, especially in cold weather....keeps your cows warm...

[Tango]

Thanks :baby04: one more now, which oats crimped? rolled?

[milkinpigs]

least processed the better...ask for whole oats, also called shelled oats are the best but if you can't get them try to get crimped.

[Tango]

Thank you!