A Dual-Purpose Breed

[Up North]

Many folks seem to want both meat and milk from their cattle. A breed that may help you acheive this consistently is the French Normande. They were developed to make high quality cheese milk with their food source being primarily grass and forages. In Europe, the resources of land etc. are limited, hence they do not have the luxury of maintaining large numbers of cattle for beef production only. Accordingly, the Normandy was also bred to produce a good beef carcass as well.
.....On our farm, we have produced both Holstein-Normande and Ayrshire-Normande cattle. We have been quite pleased with the results. We have had two of these steers in the freezer. We have cow who is just finishing her 1st lactation, and is doing well for us. Also, we have 3 Hol-Normande cross heifers in the batter's box(Due to calve within 60 days).
The following link features picture of the Purebred Normande, as well as additional information on the breed. I neither encourage nor discourage you from doing business with this firm, I only offer it as it has info and good pictures!

www.normandegenetics.com

.......Enjoy looking them over!.....................

[JeffNY]

Brown swiss are also a dual purpose breed, actually they are used for more than 2 things. Many buy steers and train them for oxen! But swiss are considered a beef breed in Europe to my understanding, so don't discount swiss! They also are high in protein, and decent with Butterfat.


Jeff

[milkinpigs]

Have you had any calving difficulty? Do the Normandes have calving ease ratings? For those that crossbreed, do you continue the heretosis;i.e. Holstein dam X Normande sire heifers are then bred to holstein sires and their offspring bred to Normande? Or are you going to a third breed?

[JeffNY]

I never used normande, but they aren't a difficult calving breed from what I have looked at. As far as rebreeding, our vet brought that up to us, and made me think. Where do you go once you cross? Because reusing a holstein still results in a cross, breeding to something else does work, but where do you go after that? There is that dilemna, and it is one reason why I didn't try it. Also overall selection for normande isn't overly large. In otherwords, if you breed, you could run out of choices eventually, especially if you kept breeding for normande.


Jeff

[Up North]

The two with the eye patches are our set of Normade/Holstein twin heifers , #212 Chloe & # 213 Joey out of Normandy sire 6NM51 BOOTSCOOTER. They are due to calve in a month or two. Very excited!

This is our Normande/Holstein cow that we are milking right now. #78 Timber, sired by 183NM05 IBANES, Dam a large Holstein Grade cow. In photo she is near end of first lactation. About 18,000 lbs milk at 3.65 BF and 3.35 P, never received more than 15 lbs. grain/day. Recognize that many purebred Holsteins will exceed that, but may require more feed for maintanence. It takes a while to download pictures into photo bucket so we are doing this a little here and there. The weather's beautifull so we are doing alot of outside chores that we haven't been able to get too.

[Celtic_Knot]

Nice looking cows. The two in the top definatly look more beefy.

[milkinpigs]

Jeff,The Hoekstra bros. in Cal. have been crossbreeding ffor quite a long time. It's their cows you see in the ads in Hoard's forcreative genetics of California; they sell Swedish red/ M ontbeliarde /Red Dane semen. The Hoekstra's crosses are usually Hol. dam/Jer. sire. That heifer is bred toSwedish red and then her heifer would be bred to Hol. sire, starting the rotation again. To maintain the ttrue hybrid vigor you have to keep good records.Some will crossbreed for one generation and then go back to just the one original breeed of their herd.Too much of a headache for most producers; some say not that much is gained.The cattle that you are breeding for might not be what would work here in the hot weather for me; milking on pasture.It just depends on what a producer is going for.Many people in dairy farming discount any benefits but crossbreeding has proven very beneficial in beef cattle and hogs. Looking at Up North's cattle shows what can be gained from crossbreeding.

[Up North]

Originally Posted by milkinpigs

Have you had any calving difficulty? Do the Normandes have calving ease ratings? For those that crossbreed, do you continue the heretosis;i.e. Holstein dam X Normande sire heifers are then bred to holstein sires and their offspring bred to Normande? Or are you going to a third breed?

...Do not know if Normande have calving ease ratings, perhaps a good question for folks at above website. We have calved 10 of these to both Holstein and Ayrshire cows, and have had no difficulty yet. These calves produced from two distinct Normande Sires, so not large enough sample to be definitive. Meaning, a farmer could produce 10 calves from 2 Holstein sires and conclude no calving difficulty with breed, which would not be a prudent statement.
...Crossbreeding Strategy? If you had purebred Hogs, but felt they could be improved in some area, you would seek out the breed that improved those traits for your crossbreeding choice. This is basically strategy we use with dairy cattle. As an example, I will use cow #78 Timber pictured above. Her mother was a large Holstein with large udder, weak legs, but huge production. The Normandy Sire chosen produced a high, snug udder with close teat placement, front end strength, and sturdy feet&legs. It worked with #78 Timber. For the next generation, I didn't want to get too beefy, so I bred her to Select Sires BEST, a good balanced Holstein Sire. That heifer calf looks like a holstein, but has stronger legs and carried more flesh(Held body condition) better than the pure Holsteins in it's peer group.
#78 Timber is now due to an Ayrshire sire, 7A60 Recruiter. Recruiter gives a little more width of udder and incorporates a tremendous will to milk. He also makes cows that are short of stature and have front teats too wide apart, which is why we rarely use him. However, Timber could give up a little daylight, and a compromise on teat placement is possible with her as she is too good in that area allready. Now after all that thought put into one mating, it will undoubtedly be a bull calf and end up as freezer beef, LOL.
The Hetereosis(Hybrid Vigor), fertility, and "right-sizing" of cows to fit your operation would be benefits that come along. The beef and Swine industry have used crossbreeding for years to increase profits of commercial production operations, just applying some of like principles.
*****Would like to make clear that we have respect for the purebred seedstock producers, as they are neccesary in any livestock industry and make valuable contributions. The crossbreeding of dairy stock is clearly not for everyone.......it may be a valuable tool for some.

[Up North]

Originally Posted by Celtic_Knot

Nice looking cows. The two in the top definatly look more beefy.

Celtic- At this point in time, all of our heifers look beefy, as they have not yet shed their winter hair. The cow shown lived in the warm barn all winter, and thus does not look like a furball!

[Up North]

Originally Posted by JeffNY

I never used normande, but they aren't a difficult calving breed from what I have looked at. As far as rebreeding, our vet brought that up to us, and made me think. Where do you go once you cross? Because reusing a holstein still results in a cross, breeding to something else does work, but where do you go after that? There is that dilemna, and it is one reason why I didn't try it. Also overall selection for normande isn't overly large. In otherwords, if you breed, you could run out of choices eventually, especially if you kept breeding for normande.



Jeff

Jeff - Firstly, wanted to thank you for your good analysis in previous post of buying jersey heifer calf vs. bred heifer. got busy and didn't respond back, but I agree shortbred heifer better value in today's market.

Where do you go after F1 cross? Wherever desired improvement takes you! We used to maintain a string of reasonable quality Registered Holsteins, and a separate string of Purebred Ayrshires. The industry standard seems to be maximize production, and spend, spend, spend until you bring housing and feed up to the level that will support that high production.
We have chosen, rather to match the stock that does well with the feedstocks and housing that exist , rather than the other way around.
For our operation, crossbreeding is proving to be a tool to acheive this.
Beleive me, am not trying to convert you, and would not reccommend you dilute your registered Holsteins. We marketed ours and then moved on to what we wanted to do. Every farm owner must decide what is best for them. We now have the freedom to select from any breed that will help us acheive our objectives. That said, to remain effective, one must keep sire id records, and enjoy the challenge of breeding improved stock. That we have in common.