Getting dairy cattle calves?

[mountainman_bc]

I don't know how the milk industry works, aside the cows give birth, the calves are taken away and we get the milk.
So, do even most of the female calves go for veal?
I was thinking about somehow getting a couple. I would imagine bottle feeding would get me one that wouldn't likely mind being milked (I am brand new to this and will need all the help I can get). One would be plenty, but a second could be sold or WHY. I just don't know if they go to auction, or even if they'd be healthy. Inbreeding, lack of colustrum- it doesn't really matter to the dairy, does it. Any ideas if this'd be a good/bad idea? Thanks.

[Ken Scharabok]

Start with a call to your local ag agent. If there are any dairies in your general area they should know about them. Then go talk to the dairy owners to see if you might work out a direct purchase of a heifer calf or calves which they guarantee have received colostrum. Likely colostrum is of little value to them, so they might allow the calf to nurse for a day or two before putting the cow back on the milk line.

I would recommend two. They generally seem to just do better when they have a buddy.

Two books you might look for are Raising a Calf for Beef (which has the basics of raising a bottle calf in it) and The Family Milk Cow (or a title much of that nuture).

Remember, you need it get it bred before getting any milk, so at the minimum you are looking at two years before the first drop for your own use. Here you might consider breeding to an Angus bull and raising that calf for the freezer.

If you prefer fresh (raw) milk, then look around for someone willing to sell you their excess. Bringing your own sterilized bottles and making it as a purchase for pet use only more or less keeps it legal in most places.

A thread a couple of weeks ago was on inexpensive milking machines. Someone noted they are sold on eBay for around $600. Basically someone takes old surge buckets and puts a vacuum system on them so they are free-standing. Would really make milking much easier for you.

If you milked two, the excess could be fed to a feeder pig. Don't really know why, perhaps the calcium boost, but they really do well on it.

[willow_girl]

Mos dairies keep their heifers to raise as replacements. A few, however, do not have the facilities or the interest, and sell them -- around here, it's usually through a broker (a fancy name for a "wheeler-dealer" ). If there's a livestock auction barn in your area, give them a call -- they may be able to point you in the right direction.

You want to buy from a reputable person, as it would be easy for a shyster to shove off a freemartin (sterile heifer born as a twin to a bull) on a newbie.

Sometimes dairy auctions (the kind where a farmer is getting out of the business, and selling off all their stock) will include a few young calves, too.

[JanO]

Since your new to cows, calves, etc. I'm going to suggest you get "Keeping a Family Cow". You can order it direct from this site.

http://www.real-food.com/

Also check out the discussion forum at the site. Lots of good information and very knowledgable people.

Good Luck

[DrippingSprings]

theres a dairy a county over from me that sells their two day old calves for 100 each. Buy over 30 and they are 50 a piece. This spring I am going to buy 50 or more. Last time I did this after it was all said and done and I ran them through the auction I made 200 profit off each of the 63 I ran through. Not getting rich but that was when the prices were lower than now. On the same number of calves i figured up with current prices and feed etc Id make about 250 or so each profit. So for 50 Ill make about 10 grand at 600 pounds or so.

[mountainman_bc]

Thanks everyone. I'm going to grab a good book on it.

[Christina R.]

I got "Keeping a Family Cow" from the library. Our library actually has several good books on family cows. Saves a few pennies to borrow one and then decide which book you want as your personal reference.

[dieselfreak]

If you are going to do it I suggest that you give them a shot of penicillin and make sure they have had all the colostrum they could handle. Tractor Supply and feed stores have dried up colustrum that you can feed to the calves; I suggest that you buy some if you are going to invest in calves. One baggie of dried colustrum at Tractor Supply around here costs around 20 dollars, pretty good insurance on an expensive investment if you ask me.

[mountainman_bc]

I had no idea you could buy colustrum that way, that's great. I'll definately check it out. Seem to me the library had a few books too- very old, but little changes.

[Ken Scharabok]

The problem with colostrum is it must be given as quickly as possible after the calf is born to have the maximum effect. Effect diminishes for up to something like 18 hours, and then has no positive effect, outside the feed value, beyond it. Absolutely best source of colostrum is the momma cow.

When a calf if born the lining of the first stomach is somewhat porous, allowing the anti-bodies (if you will) in the colostrum to quickly pass from the stomach to the blood system. With each hour the calf is old these pores close.

A calf which doesn't receive colostrum very early is likely to always be a 'poor doer' you are going to have to work on to keep alive.

Keep a feeding tube handy. If you purchase one from your local vet, make sure it is the one they use. Best type seem to have a stainless steel tube with a ball on the end. These are something like a plastic bag on the end of a tube and work by gravity. With the ball end, it is much harder to put it down the calf's windpipe. If the calf chews on the tube, it pretty well is in the right place.

[Rod_]

You may want to look at a Cow calf pair. You can usally find a dairy that has a cow they want to get rid of (cull cow), one that has 3 teats or a low producer.

This will give you milk now and should not cost you too much money. Then you can raise the calf up to replace the cull'd cow.

Rod

[warrior]

You might be better off if you can find a homesteader to purchase a calf off of. You might pay more from a private individual but alot of these $100 calves from the dairy are not purebred dairy. Often these calves are off an angus or other easy calving bull. Many dairys often have no desire to breed their own stock and just breed to keep the cow fresh so they breed to a small headed bull since the calves are essentially throwaways and a beef breed is a plus to folks looking for one to put in the freezer. Of course if purebred is not a concern some of these crossbreds can still fulfill all the dairy needs of a family. If a dairy is breeding purebreds (most often AI) then those calves may be intended as replacement milkers and will bring top dollar as there are years of breeding and genetics in that calf.
It is getting harder and harder to find good deals on dairy calves since the profit margin on milk is so narrow these days dairys are doing everything to bring in revenue. I would seriously consider a purebred as a purebred calf is worth more on the market if sold to someone wanting dairy. If you have no intention of selling calves but prefer to raise your own beef then a crossbred is fine. Shop around and compare. Good luck.

[john in la]

Originally Posted by mountainman_bc

Inbreeding, lack of colustrum- it doesn't really matter to the dairy, does it.

A modern dairy farm is a science more so than any cow operation you can think of. Lets look at a modern dairy per 100 cows.
These cows are breed for production and pushed every day of their life. Because of this a dairy culls 20 to 25% of its cows a year. So lets go with 22.5%.
22.5 cows will be culled so sold before they calf
22.5 cows will be heifers so the calf will be off breed.
So that leaves us with 55 calves.
Of these 55; 1/2 will be bulls. (veal calves)
Of these 27.5; 5% will be culled from death or hard births.
So that leaves you with 26 good calves and you need 22.5 for replacements.

With those kind of close numbers you need to breed for perfection. That’s why they AI most dairy cows. Also with the money from sold calves you would want to do every thing you could to produce good calves such as feeding colostrum.

Now would you even want one of these good heifer calves if you could get it. Since a dairy cow gives 50 to 100 lbs of milk a day (6.25 to 12.5 gallons a day) I would think not. Even if you could find and want one I would be very concerned about buying on. If it was culled it is most likely a reason behind it.

So what’s a guy to do?????????????
You would be looking for one of the calves from a heifer. These calves are off breed so do not give as much milk. Better for you and not the dairy. These calves can be bought straight off the farm (best way) or at weekly sale barns. We have 3 such barns in my area; each having a sale every week.

[Ken Scharabok]

My understanding is typically only first-calving heifers are bred to a beef-type bull (usually Angus). Thereafter, if the cow turns out to be a good milker, she is AI to a purebred bull throwing high production cows. I have been told some dairies don't even breed a third time. After the second (purebred) calf they just running the cow on BST until she burns out, then cull her.

Read the post now up on the small dairy (currently about 22 cows, building up to 50) who turn 100 pounds of milk into a gross of about $250.00. They use common dual-purchase breeds, such as Ayrshire, and settle for an average milking run of 6,000 pounds. Now if you runs the numbers (which is dangerous to do), they get about 132,000 pounds of milk from their current herd a season. 1,320 x $250 is a gross of $330,000 - and much of their farm labor is essentially free through their apprenticeship program. Also, they are going the low cost route. Their cows do not receive any grain - none, nada, zippo. They summer on forage and winter on hay. They only milk from March until mid-November to boot. Roughly about 8 1/2 months of milking and 3 1/2 months of just hay feeding.

In the article cited, it says they have had zero success in working with traditional dairies to make them viable (like their operation). Just about as soon as they leave the dairy converts back into standard operation (gee, I was doing so well I decided to increase milk output with purchased feeds).

Like Joel Salatin's operation, you pretty well have to buy into the whole system, not just pick bits and pieces out of it, for it to work.