Milking question

[JeffNY]

Funny to be asking this, but I have always been around cows after the fact. How many hours after calving do you begin milking? I beleive I remember seeing something on the order of 24 hours with the calf, then begin milking unless the cows udder needs to be milked due to size. This one particular Jersey's udder is well massive. Actually looks more like a 3 yr old udder vs first calf. She will be 3 in April, could be why. But geeeze.. She is ready to pop, due time is any day now.


Jeff

[DaleK]

Milk right away and tube feed the calf at least 2 litres (I usually feed 4-6 depending on size). With most dairy cows, the colostrum is so diluted that the calf won't willingly drink enough to get the benefit of colostrum. Waiting 24 hours is fine with poor cows but with good genetics capable of giving a lot of milk you'll soon start having mastitis problems.

[dosthouhavemilk]

With our Jerseys we milk out enough for a bottle. Feed the calf as soon as possible and generally milk the cow the next milking. With older, milk fever prone cows, we don't milk them out completely. With heifers, dad will count for three minutes and then remove the unit. It trains them to let down in a shorter amount of time.
With the edema, one way to help is to massage upwards while milking the cows.
Depends on time of year and mood.

[JeffNY]

The calf will be a Jersey/Hereford cross. She should give good milk, she isn't a large framed heifer, and that udder is quite large, decent looking (hope the edema gives way to a nice cleft). But the edema went down some, my mother has been rubbing udder balm on her udder.


Jeff

[Ronney]

Hi Jeff,
I don't have any hard and fast rules about this but in the main, apart from checking that the calf is feeding, I leave them alone for at least the first 12 hours unless there are any obvious problems such as Milk Fever. After that the calf stays on it's dam for four days during which I bring her in and milk her once a day.

The benefit of colostrum to the calf/lamb/piglet is lost after 24 hours but leaving the calf with it's dam helps clean the udder out of any further colostrum if the milk is being required for anything other than pigs.

Dalek, I don't wish to be rude but I've never heard such a load of rubbish. Why would anybody want to waste their time tube feeding a calf that is perfectly capable of sucking it's own milk. Tube feeding should be reserved for sick animals that are too weak to suck and at best is a last resort. Try working on a 1,200 cow dairy farm and tube feeding that many calves. You would pretty soon get sick of it. And why should the colostrum from dairy cows be "diluted"? If that were correct there would be weak, ill, dead and dieing dairy calves all over the place and in my years among high producing dairy cows, I haven't seen too many of those.

Cheers,
Ronnie

[dosthouhavemilk]

We don't tube feed our animals but we don't leave it up to the cow and calf to make sure the calf gets its colostrum either. We make sure that calf has taken in a full (2 quarts) bottle as soon as possible. Even if we leave the calf with its dam for up to 24 hours. better safe than sorry in our book.
Now, if we have seen the calf actively nursing (like when we are hand milking out that bottle) and the calf feels full and refuses the bottle we aren't going to force the bottle, but we always feel better if they take it anyways.

You leave the calf on the dam for four days? How do the cows deal with the seperation at 4 days compared to removing the calf within the first 24 hours? Have you worked much with animals where they are removed at 24 hours or less to compare it to? If we don't get the calves within the first 24 we generally do not see them until the 5th or 7th day. They tend to be more difficult to catch at that point. lol

[DaleK]

Ronnie, try dealing with North American cattle instead of New Zealand. Replace those 1200 cows with about 250 and you'll have the same amount of milk. Not the same kind of animal at all.

[JanO]

With most dairy cows, the colostrum is so diluted that the calf won't willingly drink enough to get the benefit of colostrum.

DaleK are you under the impression that the colostrum direct from the cow is diluted? If you are I'd like to know "with what?!". I've known dairy people in New Zeland as well as North America and none of them would ever consider tubing a healthy calf. Doesn't matter where you are, a calf will suck either it's mother, or a bottle if it's capable. And nothing is better for a new calf then pure colostrum on any continent.

[evermoor]

MOst calves on 12oo cow dairies are jacked out and have colostrum tubed fed a gallon. When you calve in 20 or so cows a day, you do not have time to waste as your processing cows and calves. You would be surprised at the differences in colostrum quality. Often some Holsteins will give30 to 40# of colostrum and it always seems to be low quality when tested with a colostrum meter. Generally I bottle feed as soon as I can or else they are tube fed. Calves are separated as soon as possible. I know personally what you are talking about Roseanne(lol). Many of our big udder heifers or cows are premilked and calves get stored colostrum. This helps allviate much edema problems.

[FlipFlopFarmer]

We usually milk out just enough for the calf's first meal (about 2 pints or so) as I take the babe away from Momma right away...or else you could let the calf nurse and keep the calf with Mom for the first 24 hours or so. The reason I separate is because our cow is older and is prone to milk fever. The more the calf drinks, the more calcium is takes from Mom and she'll go down again with MF.

I would never tube a healthy calf either. The one thing that I did do....not sure how necessary it was but it made me feel better was to give a colostrum boulus. I didn't administor it with a balling gun as I am too nervous that I'll tear the esophogus. I pulverized the pill and dissolved it in the first bottle I gave.

After about 24 hours after delivery we are back on our regular milking schedule.

Good luck with the new babe.

Carla

[pygmywombat]

I milk 12 hours after calving, give or take a few hours. Birth in the morning, milk at night, that sort of thing. I make sure the calf is nursing well and for the first few milkings only take what the cow let's down. After 2-3 days I start milking and stripping out all the milk.

[Jennifer L.]

One really good reason to tube feed is because you are working against that 24 hour clock when the calf's gut closes to absorbing immunoglobulin (hope I spelled that right) from the colostrum. The sooner the calf gets it, the more it will absorb.

Also, some calves are not born hungry and are not likely to nurse right away. In the meantime it can fall down and get dirt on its face and get it into the gut. Not good! Or the mother can lay down in dirt and get dirty teats. Also not good. You do know what I mean when I say dirt.

Also colostrum quality varies greatly. You've got the stuff that is as thick as honey and you've got essentially milk that isn't too far off from going into the pipeline. If you have no colostrum saved, that calf has to get as much of that skinny colostrum as it can to get as much immunoglobulins from it.

You may have different conditions on your farm that make some management choices that others use not worthwhile for your set up, but that doesn't make them bad ideas for other farms.

Jeff. as far as your question, I milk the cow within 12 hours of calving. The first milking is only enough for the calf and I feed with a pail or bottle so I KNOW the calf has gotten some colostrum. The second milking she's half milked out and the third milking is the first full milk out. If she is a milk fever cow then I tread a little lighter with her, but I'd rather give her a couple of bottles of Ca rather than run the risk of developing mastitis by not milking her out enough for that first 36 hours.

As far as a large udder, yes, by all means pre-milk! You get mastitis going in a bag with heavy edema and you can kiss that cow goodbye. I've lost several cows in the last few years who freshened with absolutely enormous udders. I'm talking double bushel basket size, way over a normal fresh udder with normal amounts of edema. I'd never pre-milked before and didn't want to do it, but finally started when for some reason there was just a rash of these cows freshening here. It made a big difference to them and the edema didn't continue to build up.

Good luck with the heifer!

Jennifer

[JeffNY]

Our vet was telling us back when he was here, that Jerseys tend to be more prone to milk fever when they are 4 or 5 years old. Atleast that is what he has seen. The calf will only be here a week, then it goes to market. Not keeping those beef/jersey crosses around, no use!



Jeff

[evermoor]

. The calf will only be here a week, then it goes to market. Not keeping those beef/jersey crosses around, no use!


They make good freezer beef or it seems that a few people here would be interested in a homestead cow. Didn't you have a pix of such a cross as a cow??

[JeffNY]

Yes, and she throws decent beef animals, however she stays because she is out of a cow that we bought back in 92 or so. Had her for 9 years, till she died on my birthday. So she has sentimental value of sorts. But this calf will go to market, and depending how it looks (beef looking, or dairy looking), it would bring more than if I keep it. We have beef animals for peoples freezer.


Jeff

[Ronney]

Roseanna, the cow makes as much of a performance at four days as she does at 24 hours or even 12 hours so it makes no odds other than the fact that the calf has had a good start. And yes, I've had experience right across the board the difference being that these days I only milk 8 cows with another two comming on.

Many farmers here remove the calves at around the 24 hour mark but I should also point out that here it is illegal to sell or send from the farm any calf that is less than four days old. This mean that they still have to be fed. Some farmers elect to leave the calves with their dams, others remove them and milk the cows with colostrum milk being reserved to feed these calves. Tube feeding doesn't come into it at all and is never done with healthy calves.

The vast majority of calves will feed from their dams within the first 6 hours from birth, most within the first two hours. It doesn't take a good farmer too much to recognise when a calf is in trouble and if the time isn't available to follow up on stock, either staff have to be employed or a change in lifestyle should be contemplated. As to colostrum, it would be fair to say that each calf born will be in sympathy with it's dam and the colostrum produced will be sufficient for that calf's needs. To compare the colostrum from different cows is about as silly as comparing the milk from a Jersey to a Friesian or Hereford. If anybody feels that there really is a problem with the quality of the colostrum that their cow is producing, perhaps it's time to go back to the drawing board and have a good look at what they're breeding.

Dalek, now I know your talking rubbish. If NA could milk 250 cows to NZ's 1200, it would be the dairy capital of the world. It isn't. I assume you are talking about Holsteins? If so, you may be interested to know that a large proportion of our dairy herds are made up of American Holsteins. It is also interesting that in some quarters there has been a large swing away from them and back to the British Holstein which is somewhat smaller, and in some cases, even back to Jersey herds because of the problems associated with the American Holstien, a couple of which Jennifer has unwittingly outlined. Pre-calf milking, on-going oedema, mastitis and milk fever are costly and time wasting. Added to that their feed requirements to keep up that production as well as body maintenance were huge, too many were returning to heat and up to 20% of herds were returning MT. Although it may not seem important, we grassland farm and the weight of these cows does huge damage to pasture. Farmers are now finding that with a smaller cow they can run a few extra, have less problems, better pasture and a higher production. It's past time that people recognised that breeding cows with large production also brings large problems in terms of management and that those extra gallons are not necessarily cost effective.

Evermoor, I'm with you on the Jersey or Jersey/beef for eating. I deliberately keep back one of my Jersey calves for the freezer. I've eaten Angus, Hereford, Friesian, crosses etc. but have decided that the Jersey meat is sadly under rated and it's what I eat by choice.

Cheers,
Ronnie

[Jennifer L.]

Well, like I said, Ronnie, it all depends on what the conditions are at your own place. What works for one farm doesn't necessarily work at another.

Jennifer

[willow_girl]

But the edema went down some, my mother has been rubbing udder balm on her udder.

What you want is Uddermint! Good stuff.

[michiganfarmer]

I let the cow clean the calf, then I milk her imediately and give the colostrum to the calf. I dont drink the milk for a week, but I milk her twice a day starting imediately after freshening

[JeffNY]

As of 10:00 on Monday her water broke, and is going into labor. Not exactly the first animal to calve on the farm, but its about friggen time she is beginning to do the deed. Which is interesting, when they put together heat charts, what do they go by that they determine the date for calving? Because if you went by a 9 month date (28th to 28th type thing), it brings you to November 28th. However the heat chart said Dec 7th, and she appears she will calve on the 6th early early AM. How is it figured in?



Jeff