deer hunting/atvs/tresspassing

Tend to agree with this. *LOL*

I've never hunted with dogs -- matter of fact, I don't do much hunting at all. I've got a hand tremor that makes me a pretty lousy shot.

My grandparents bred golden retrievers, and had a AKC grand champion stud -- in both obediance and field and trial. (He was bred for work and was too big for conformation, iirc.) The family still tells stories of this dog who got lost several times doing his job ... no dog is perfect, no matter how trained. And if someone had illegaly shot THAT dog, they'd have been in taking a second mortgage out to pay for him.

I've also had someone take a shot at my dog who was ON A 100 foot TETHER at the time, because they thought she might "chase cattle" -- I had her on a 100 foot clothesline doing recall work with her. They missed -- he saw me and assumed my dog was loose because she was a fair distance from me. THis was on public land, on a grazing lease, the rancher shot at her. We had every legal right to be there, it was in a national forest.

Leva

Keep yourself and your dogs off other people's property and you won't have a problem.

Simple enough?

Well, no, just because you hunt to put food on the table does NOT give you the right to trespass.

Gee .... sounds like getting shot would be more humane to those dogs than living like a gerbil...

There's not a state in the Union where it's legal to shoot someone JUST for trespassing on your land. It's called murder in all 50 states.

Shooting AT them can get you charged with a felony - assault with a deadly weapon - if they decide to call the cops.

Just POINTING a gun at someone can be considered simple assault. Just SHOWING them a gun can be considered "brandishing" a weapon, which is typically a misdemeanor, but CAN be a felony in some places.

There ARE quite a few where it's legal to shoot someone who is in your house at night, but that is NOT the same thing as just shooting someone for trespassing. The details vary, but the basic legal doctrine is this: If you believe your life is in danger, you have a right to defend yourself, or other innocent folks.

Now, HOW they decide whether or not you have a reason to believe your life is in danger is where the differences come in. In some states (notably the more socialistic states like Maryland, Mass, etc.), you basically have to have a gun pointed at you or something of the sort. You must retreat if there is any way you can, and they can be pretty unrealistic about what you should have done. Other states have what is called the Castle Doctrine, meaning your home is your castle and you don't have to run and hide from someone inside your home. Florida just changed its law from insane (you'd better have a knife at your throat or have already been shot at or you will be charged with murder) to something much more sensible.

So find out what the law is in YOUR state and county. Don't rely on what some neighbor or friend told you.

Ah, you're in the "I hate ATVs even when they're doing something legal" crowd.

The hunters were there legally. I've ridden a fair number of horses, including riding tail for a dude string, on whatever horse was newest (read: we don't know what the horse is going to do!) and/or in the most need of attitude correcting. Very few horses that I've ever ridden have actually been afraid of ATVs, though I've sat a few that liked to race them. I've ridden nutty off-the-track-thoroughbreds up to the fence where my neighbors were riding a half dozen ATVs on a dirt track and had the OTTBs be remarkably unimpressed by the noise.

Never had a problem with ATVs while riding horses. I've had a fair number of spooks because of mountain bikes (they're quiet and "sneak up"), backpackers (dayglo trolls), other horses, elk, deer, bunnies, snakes, a white rock in a pile of brown rocks, a big boulder beside the road, a shiny puddle, a plastic bag, mailboxes, and even the time I got dumped and cracked a couple ribs because I came around a corner and the road that had been dirt yesterday was PAVED now and thereby different and scary and the horse decided to head for the next county ... not, incidently, a spooky horse normally ... I could go on and on.

ATVs, I think because they ARE noisy and give the horse tons of warning and don't "jump out at them" and most horses have seen them before, have never been high on my list of things likely to spook a horse. That's not to say that someone might put their kid on a nutcase of a horse who WILL spook and run, but that same horse is probably also likely to spook and run at other things. There is a LOT of stuff that's spooky in the forest ... And if the kid can't can't handle the horse, then that's the parent's fault. Harsh at it is, the national forest is open for ALL, including people riding ATVs who are following the laws.

One more observation, from having helped with dude rides and been variously involved with horses over the years -- there are an awful lot of kids out there who ride really well and who I wouldn't worry about even on a spooky horse. I can't say the same for adult riders.

Leva

Maura,

I hate to be the doubting Thomas but have you actually had a purebred hound bred for hunting? Have you trained the hound for obedience then trained the dog for hunting then tried the recall training while in the field? I seriously doubt that you have. Once they are trained to hunt that's all they live for. That's why you do see them chained up or in pens because they will try every method to get out to hunt..even the house hounds are that bad. I saw a champion Bassett hound escape during an obedience session and go track a horse! He throughly ignored his owner and started bawling on track...he had to run down the dog and tackle him, lol. I think you had a hound that was never trained for hunting therefore the dog's instincts were not fully awakened. Once it's done, that's it that's all they live for. Cur dogs are thankfully alot more smarter than that..they are bred to be property guard dogs so they do stay on the property and only go when you ask 'em if they wanna go hunting. Cur dogs are bred to hunt hogs, mountain lions, and a few other critters plus round up cattle.

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Ted H

You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas.
-Davy Crockett

BlueRidge
Here in Texas you do have some rights to shoot trespassers if they are anywhere near your animals or if they are with in certain distance of your home. Yes you will have to go to court but it will basically come out that you were defending your property and/or animals. I know back east they don't do that as much but more out west the states tend to favor the land owners most often. Especially if they have animals. I've been told this by the sheriff, a state trooper, and the border patrol every time the come out here to pick up a group of illegals or tresspassing hunters.

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Remember folks THANKSGIVING - it's the holiday to gobble till ya wobble!

You get yourself a coon hound and train him from day one to respond to YOUR commands and he will come back when you call him no matter what. As a matter of fact my uncle won several championships with his dogs. Now you go buy a grown dog from someone else and put it with younger dogs and there all relying on the previous training of the older dog which is usually ZERO. Unfortunately most people think training a coon hound is turning him loose and as long as he trees he is good. WRONG Obedience is part of good training. You train dogsd like you train kids. If you start early enough you will be able to call your child and he will come. You can get the dog doing the same thing. If he doesnt come when you call you go to him and ''convince him" he was wrong. If a young dog could not be trained then he was culled like any other defective livestock.

As farr as the other fellow thinking that this was a good site but now no more. Well I dont shoot for no reason. If you are poaching and thats what it is POACHING on my land I will most definately shoot your dogs if the situation calls for it. If you leave your dog behind for me to feed or keep out of my game fowl that costs more than your dog EACH then I will shoot it to defend my property.

Now I will tell you what I did to someone else. I can shoot your dog for killing my chickens or I can call the law and when they arrive I will let him see your dog killing my fowl. At that point I get a report and as the law is a witness I will then turn it in on your homeowners insurance. At anywhere from 100-1500 a piece and if brood fowl I can then charge for lost future breedings and that that gets steep really quick. I know a man that proved in court with receipts and his ad in a bredders mag what he got for his fowl. He received ten thousand dollars for a pen of one rooster and four hens and the loss of future stock he could have bred out of them. And your homeowners will either go up or youll be dropped for having a vicious animal out of control. One guys dog got out as you call it and cost me thirteen hundred dollars. I let his insurance pay me back. I am sure hed rather I shot the dog.

My neighbors know that is they get a loose dog to call me and I will catch it if at all possible. If it doenst happen more than once or twice I am ok with it and will not harm it. But those that repeat are good as dead.

I am responsible for MY livestock and you are responsible for YOUR livestock and that includes dogs and whatever damage they cause.

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What we have here...is a failure to communicate.

I have had one coonhound and he was a Walker. I was able to train him to sit, down, shake hands, stay and roll over and to bark on command but never WAS able to housebreak him even after a whole year! I crate trained him..he would hold it in the crate..but the second he came out of the crate..up his leg went..despite all the yelling and hollering he would go either number 1 or 2 right in front of you or whatever..I eventually had to tie him up in the back yard to prevent him from digging out...I found out hounds are famous for digging holes..he eventually was sold because he dug a 8 foot deep hole and I fell into it cracking a leg at night when I was about to feed him. He would dig out then come back hours later after the neighbors complained about him treeing their cats. He never did run off even though I lived in a semi suburban neighborhood at the time. I then had a redbone coonhound and he was the best dog but never showed any interest in hunting even after a year and a half..I gave him to a boy..he started showing interest in coons after 2 and half years!!! I don't keep hounds for this reason. They take too darn long to develop..cur dogs grow up pretty fast.

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Ted H

You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas.
-Davy Crockett

lol we had a walker that was much the same. Obedient, eminently trainable and an excellent dog but he was evidently part excavator. He loved to dig holes. Not just little "dig a hole and lay down in it hole" but bury a cow sized holes. Always threatened to pen him up in one spot so he could dig a pond for me. He would never run off or anything, he just loved to dig holes. Big holes.

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Respect The Cactus!

Yeah, I forgot about Texas. You are unique, AFAIK! Some might say ALL states should be that way...

Cry me a river...You do not hunt to put food on the table you hunt because you and yours could care less if your hunting violates someone else's turf. I've seen your kind for years...."What mine is mine and what's your is mine," you think the world owes you something. While everyone else on here does their best to be self-reliant without disturbing their neighbors. I do not believe anyone on here has posted,
"Yep, me and the dawgs was huntin on the neighbors farm t'other day. His horses got in the way of my shot, but they was only grazed a bit...dunno why he was so upset, after all I didn't complain when the horse almost kicked my best hound!"

I bet if we did a cost analysis the cost of feeding those dogs and the ammo and gas used would outweigh the cost of keeping and feeding a cow or meat goat you could butcher. Since you're skinning deer for food goats can't be that much harder (I might be wrong, those of you who know can jump in here).

The people on this board ARE NICE and if them wanting to live their lives without being disturbed by you and your dogs means you don't want to come back here, then I guess that is just a loss they will have to endure.

Although our farm is small, 15 acres, i often have problems w/ hunters trespassing, despite posting signs everywhere and calling the game warden. Last year, some idiot was shooting at deer at 3 a.m. not a stone's throw away from my house, with my neighbor's herd of cattle directly behind the fence line he was shooting at. i have no problems with hunting, but not without my permission on my property.

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All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

I think everyone who has been on this board for any length of time knows my feelings about poachers and trespassers. If armed individuals came wandering onto peoples property in the cities I guarantee you the laws would be tightened up. As far as dogs wandering, the one time my dog got loose I followed it for miles before I caught it. If someone had shot the dog for worrying their livestock I would have blamed myself (for carelessness) and not the property owner.

One thing I have done this year is invite the Game Warden (next county) to hunt our property (other than gun season). If he catches anyone I've told him I want them charged.... no if and or buts......he feels about as strongly regarding poachers as I do.

Mike

I don't have a problem with hunting if permission is asked and granted. When I first bought my land, I had a terrible time with hunters even though I posted the property, took me about three seasons of running them off before the message got received. However, that being said, I had new neighbors move in and Lord, my child was almost killed by one of them. We were 20 feet in front of the house and I was leading him on the pony when a bullet came whizzing past the pony and lodged in the board fence. Pony freaked, bucked my son off and took off. I promptly called the Sheriff and Game Warden and they went house to house and found the shooter. Turns out it was a 15 year old who had gotten into Daddy's guns and was "target practicing" with a 30.06. Game Warden and Sheriff called his folks, had a long discussion and a ticket given, and that stopped that. But my land is such that only bowhunters are given permission to hunt here as there are too many kids around and the land is rectangular and long but not deep, so a bullet can cross boundaries. If someone wants to hunt and they ask me, I usually say yes if they bowhunt and are responsible. I have way too many deer and lose a lot of hay to them every year.

In south GA. it is perfectly legal to run dogs and a lot of people do, but up here there is not much of that going on. I've owned a coon hound and he was a pain, always digging to China and wouldn't stay home for nothing. I gave him to a coon hunter and they got along just fine (I only took the dog as the previous owner was going to take him to the pound and have him destroyed as they were moving and this was a nice walker hound, once saved my kid from a copperhead, got bit on the nose and I thought I'd lost him as his head swelled up so - but the vet pulled him through). I think coon hounds and any hunting dog needs a job to do, so I was fortunate to find that dog a good home with a hunter who spent the time to train him to hunt.

I post my land, and then take flyers to my newest neighbors to remind them that I have horses and kids back here as they cannot see my house from the road and normally believe that no one lives here. Once I do that, I don't usually have any trouble.

Bowhunters are a welcome sight here, but unfortunately my last hunter had a heart attack so even though I have offered the property and have lots of deer, I have no hunters. Guess most want to use guns.

Sidepasser

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Be yourself - no one can tell you that you're doing it wrong!

Well, this is slightly off the subject of hunting, but still on the subject of dogs being where they should not be. Despite a 4 foot fence around my property, one of my dogs still finds a way to get out once in a while. The other day my kids said they saw the dog next door with one of the neighbor's chickens in her mouth.

If my neighbor had shot her, I would not have been upset. It's MY responsibility to keep the dog contained.

If his dog (or any other dog) was killing my chickens, I'd shoot the dog in a heartbeat.

O.K. I know this is going to upset some people, but here it goes anyway.

Why on earth would you use dogs for deer hunting? I had never heard of it before this post.

It seems to me that you've got to REALLY suck at hunting(deer) if you NEED the assistance of dogs. Sorry, but no one I've ever known used them and they all did just fine filling their tags.

Just for the record, I am not a city slicker. I think hunting is great and I agree with all the other people on here who are willing to stand up for private property rights no matter what.

Just my two cents.

Holly in MO.

I happen to agree with you about hunting deer with dogs. Main thing it's for people who don't want to stalk a deer all day. Keep in mind that it's very easy for a dog to hunt a deer than any other critter outta there. You can raise them not to chase deer..how? Simple..raise them right next to the goat pen and goats smell just like deer and when you run the dogs they're less likely to run deer. Personally I don't deer hunt with dogs...it's too easy and deer are stupid creatures that happen to taste good. I hunt feral hogs and squirrels with my dogs only. I may let them tree a coon or two because farmers hate 'em bec they eat their corn.

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Ted H

You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas.
-Davy Crockett

I guess I'm in the middle. I have 15 acres thats surrounded by woods that I deerhunt on, mostly with a bow. I don't want people trespassing on it because I deerhunt it and 15 acres isn't too big of a plot to have alot of others. When I kill a deer, we usually eat deermeat once a week until its gone. My 4 year old girl likes vinison better than pizza! I've found cigarrett butts in my stand and I left someone a note telling them that I had game cameras set up along cameras and if they were in this stand, their picture had been taken. Last turkey season, I called in about a 15 year old boy. Luckily, I was sitting in a deerstand calling for turkey's because if I had been on the ground, he could have shot me and he's lucky because not everyone identifies their target before they shoot like I make sure to do. I used to coonhunt and I keep a squirrel dog, luckily, they don't range out too far not over 100 yards. I don't have any livestock to damage, so I don't mind if someone's deerdog crosses my property, I kind of enjoy hearing and sometimes seeing the chase. But just because a dog runs a deer on my land, that doesn't give someone permission to kill a deer on my property. The dog can't read but the hunter can.

put up a sign that says WARNING: property has animal traps, owner not liable for dismemberment or death of tresspassers. Please, DO NOT TRESSPASS