Adding To My Power System

I put together a small PV and battery system for emergency use. It runs radios and some other 12 volt electronics. I bought an inverter for the system but never have unboxed it and tried it yet. I looked into some sort of solar system but the costs were prohibitive as were the energy restrictions. No way to run my air compressor, 240 volt tools plus I would have had to ditch all of my appliances etc. The panels and battery banks were just far too expensive considering that my electric bills run from under 50 dollars a month to around 100 when I run the central a/c at 72 degrees. That is with an electric water heater. Then they told me that the hugely expensive batteries had to be replaced every few years and the panels degraded and would eventually need to be replaced too. I simply couldn't justify the cost.

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Respect The Cactus!

Good batteries aren't expensive. I use marine deep cycle batteries ($72.00 with core exchange fee at WalMart). My last one hooked up to the travel trailer that was used every weekend for about five years straight lasted 8years. It came back to Florida from Texas as an 8 year old battery that still kept a charge. When I decided to live in the travel trailer temporarily I bought 4 new deep cycle marine batteries. I figure they will last at least five years. The bigger expense is the panels.

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Tiny Forest ~ my tiny blog

I can understand that, and I'm a big fan of alternative energy actually! Guess I can sound kind of negative, don't mean it that way.

Just, nothing you are doing would be legal where I live! Outhouses are begrudgingly allowed in northern areas of my state, but you need an understanding county official. Any time a property changes hands here, the 'grandfather' clauses expire & well & septic codes need to be met.

So, what you are doing just would not be allowed. The government has built in a certain power demand to living around these parts, not sure how 'off grid' would be able to work around here.

On the other hand, we live by 'Buffalo Ridge' and large electric producing windmills are going in at record numbers, as well as the alternative fuels flourishing in my state.

Something anyhow.

--->Paul

'They' dont know what 'they' are talking about.That just isnt correct.Batteries last more than 'a few years' and as for panels degrading,they are quaranteed 20-25 years,and many of the first panels made are still going strong.If you are 40 years old,real good chance those panels will outlast you. 10 years on trojan L series batteries(about 110 HUGELY expensive dollars) is not unheard of(or my sister is a fluke and I doubt that seriously),and batteries are also made that last well beyond that,nickel/iron is one almost indestructable battery.

About the only thing correct in that post is upfront costs are high and conventional appliances(ie inefficient) are poor choices,and yes,you can run 220 from solar too.

BooBoo

I shure would steer clear of the "they" who told you that...(replacing PV pannels) ....Bad info.

I've been inverter powering my 220vac well pump for maybe 7 years now,........Can't be done.??......Please tell me why not.

Unfortunately there will always be nay-sayers who spout bad/incorrect information.

Again.......Kat,..go for it..!!!

"They" were a company that sold and installed solar and wind systems. I had them out to give my situation a look over as I was thinking about trying to do some sort of alternative energy set-up when I built my house since I was concerned with reliability and the costs associated with getting electrical service to my building site. I guess this would have been maybe 4 or 5 years ago now. Maybe things are different now or they didn't know what they were talking about. Either explanation wouldn't surprise me. When I asked about various appliances and tools their standard answer was "No, you can't do that with a solar system." or "That item uses too much energy you need this." "This" being some appliance that was 4 or 5 times the cost and of substantially less capability of it's conventionally powered counterpart. Again, I may have recieved bad info.

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Respect The Cactus!

Quint,you make a good point.It isnt JUST the power production,its how you use the power you make.
When you go offgrid,you have to think offgrid,not ongrid.Ongrid appliances are not a good choice,and replacing them them wth more efficient appliances is part of the total package.

BooBoo

Actually there answer should have been: No, you can't afford to do that with solar. Anything can be powered with a solar system. Just can't afford a system that BIG

While the cost of the replacement appliances may have been 4 to 5 times. Building a system to power yor appliances could easily cost 4 times the replacement they where suggesting. The saying is for every dollar you spend on energy use reduction saves you 4 dollars on the production end.

BooBoo

You may have posted this before but I'd like to know what your system is?

All we have is 150 watts(BP solar mono crystaline) of panels on the MH with a controller and 1200 watt inverter.

At the house we have 8 L-16 trojans and a I 'think' a 2000 watt Freedom inverter/charger for power backup.Works great,I love that little system.Purchased I think in 2000.

Sis is fully off grid,with 1000+ watts panels(Kyocera multi-crystalline),trace full sine wave inverter charger,8 L-16 batteries.Back-up genny they use daily(4000 sq foot,with conventional appliances).10 years offgrid for them.

They will go ongrid when the lines make it to them,but become grid connected with solar.Use the power company as their batteries and genny.BIL still hasnt got the idea of changing out to better appliances because his wealthy neighbor said not to.Well,he can afford to produce enough so it doesnt matter.

We will go fully offgrid if property we buy has no electric.All appliance replacements now will be solar powered,as will the new washer being a staber.

So,we have some,know of more,and flat out love the whole scheme.

I would love to go all out and get the solar now,but am saving for property,so thats why we arent there at this moment.But if no power,we will go full solar.If power,money will go into Earthship type home first,then solar.In any event,we are going offgrid so no power bills when we retire.

BooBoo

Our trojan LH-16 high capacity batteries are guaranteed for 10 years, and our Shell panels are guaranteed for 25 years.

Refrigeration is a major issue. Even if your on grid, replacing that big old energy guzzling fridg with a new "energy star" unit will be a very big help.

Not so many years ago if your system was 12vdc and you didn't have an inverter ....and you wanted a blender, you might have had to spend $95 for for a 12vdc single speed unit that wasn't of very good quality. Not any more. With a big choice of inverters today you can use any blender that you'd buy from the big box store's for $19.95.
So yes you could have paid more for appliances a while ago.
Not nessary now.

read refrigeration is 18% or so of grid power use,I want a better frig too.They are out there....for 999.00 for 8 cubic feet.

BooBoo

I salvage pieces and parts from travel trailers, motorhomes and camp trailers as needed to get what I need. Some of the finds I get are inverter units with a few thousand watts capacity built into the storage area of some travel trailers. When I find those, I set up a small stand-alone system out of them and what I can scrounge up around here. With minimal investments I get the basics, but I do hope to one day have a better designed system.

However, I look at it this way, if I have a portable power wagon (or two or three) that I can use like a solar powered generator for when I have to run power tools in the place of my generator, that is one step forward. I also end up with auxiliary units that I can use for backup in case my main system has a problem. Granted, my system is two 100 watt panels I salvaged and a few other assorted smaller panels with conventional deep cycle truck batteries, but it is a start.

There are alternatives to the grid perks, but you have to be willing to change to them and accept their limitations.

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Those who refuse to respect the natural rights of the individual and uphold their oath to protect and defend the Constitution deserve the punishment they receive.

Is there anyone here who is connected to the grid with their own windmill and using the power company for storage?

Congrats to those who have gone solar, kat and pines, and .. (drawing a blank, sorry)! I'm close, but not quite off-grid yet. I live on a small lot in a village, and the neighbor's 40' trees are shading the house and yard most of the day, which I'm somewhat thankful for this summer, but it isn't doing much for the two 75w panels currently sitting in my upstairs hallway - nor is the fact that the smoke leaked out of the charge controller by an accidental short durring testing (my bad, and I just got the replacement scr's to attempt to fix it, if the driver circuitry survived).

As is noted, the only sensible way to go off-grid is to get into a conservation liifestyle first, and start small, until you are reasonably sure your can afford your energy budget with what you have assembled or can afford for a system. In that sense, being on the grid is good option - when you can generate all you need without their 'help', just pull the plug!

I've been cutting back for years, and started the first phase of the solar effort several years ago by getting a SunFrost fridge and a two size 24 deep cycle batteries (one at a time). I got one at Mall-wart, and the other at a farm supply place, paying about $15 bucks more for the later, but putting them both in service (in series for 24v) at the same time. After 5 years, the 'everstart' from Mall-wart won't keep a charge with one cell mostly shorted, but the other is still going strong two years later. (the Sunfrost will run on either 12 or 24). I've been keeping them charged with a standard auto-regulating deep cycle battery charger plugged into the wall, running it about an hour a day - yes, I'm still on the grid - and my electric bill amounts to roughly $23/ month - 15 of which is just for having a meter on the house, $3 is taxes, and the rest is for the ~112 kw per mo I use, running a chest freezer, washing machine, battery chargers (for the fridge, cell phone, ni-cad tool batteries), an old IBM laptop, compact flourescents for light, and occasionlly some power tools (radial arm saw, worm drive skill saw, air compressor, arc welder). I also have a 4.5kw generator, which if I was off-grid, would be used for the occsional 'heavy loads' of the tools. Even at the current prices of gasoline, for the little I actually NEED to use those things, it's a viable option. I also have a 750w inverter - a cheap one, that will run the freezer in a pinch.

Cooking, baking, water heating and house heating is done with a 1920's kitchen range. Makes for a cool house at times, but being as it's just me here, "it don't matter much"

Yes, the Staber is the way to go for an automatic washer - for myself, I'm thinking 'scrub board' (which I also have)...

Still aiming to be the first kid on the block with no power lines from the pole to the house.

So, what am I still doing living in town??? it's a long (complicated) story.. :P

Excellent job folks, many very informational posts here re:what it does,how to grow a system,experimentation,how to get comfortable with solar.

Lifestyle is important and that starts before offgrid with the infrastructure like appropriate appliances,as Andy (Welcome to the board!) points out.Just a CF bulb,then a refer,then a panel here and a panel there....

Sure makes my day to hear your stories,we are changing our personal worlds,if nothing else.

Reminds me of Alices Restuarant...
"Can you imagine 3 people a day,JUST THREE PEOPLE a day,singing this song?Folks will think its a movement,and thats what it is..."

BooBoo

No wife,eh? Mine isnt going without a washer,and thats a fact!

BooBoo

Yes booboo! It is a movement and I am proud to be a part of it!!!!!

Yesterday, we just got a string of lights we ordered from Backwoods Solar and I love them. They are like a small string of Christmas lights, I got all yellow ones and they use only 0.06 watts. It's a night light. With the price of kerosene at $2.59 a gallon, I am cutting way back on the number of lamps we use. So now we are using our electric lamps more - may as well, it's free.

More and more people are getting the idea to use alternative energy sources. When I went looking for panels though, many places had them back ordered. So it's increasing.

When Fed Ex or UPS comes to our house for a delivery, they stay for a long time - always asking questions about our system. People are always asking us about it. But they are too afraid to break free and just do it. I just love being independent of a power company.

And one of the big things, people on the grid worry about, is losing their power, and so they buy the big generators for that purpose. But when you are off the grid, even though you do need a generator for charging batteries, you don't lose the power as long as you take care of your system.

Thanks for the welcome, booboo...

No, no wife - she left for a 'higher standard of living' (and debt up the wazoo) with a nice man who smokes and drinks (as she does also - I don't ), who spends hours mowing acres of mortgaged grass, and 90% of the time, they pay to have even the basic repair stuff done.

And LOL at the Alice's Resturant reminder... "been singing this song for twenty minutes already, and I ain't tired.... or proud." He was at the Chatauqua Institute a few weeks ago, but I didn't go. Old memories are sometimes best left intact (without updates).

Yeah, I wouldn't make any housemate use a washboard, unless they volunteered (even though the clothes get cleaner). One of those concessions to peaceful living.

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Of all the evils that have befallen the earth, the worst is the desire of men to profit one from another. (Book of Andy 3:1)

Yes it does require an attitude review to learn to live with less.
I can get pretty flustrated talking with a person who wants a system for cheap cheap, but has a hard time grasping at the fact that he can't use his three window AC's, his electric water heater (because he's afraid of propane) and his long list of electrical can't live withouts.
I am not the person with enough patience to "convert" those folks.

Yes kat those LED (light emiting diodes) strings shure sound neat. Gotta get me one or two. As those things become more popular I hope that doesn't cause a shortage of LED's.....lol
I got (from Backwoods) the bulb with 23 (I think) LED's in it makes a great reading light....and uses so very little power.