Need advice on our building "liaisons"

When I was getting estimates for some electrical work on our new home, it was a truely amazing experience to watch the the price estimate be slashed to almost a third of the original estimate when I mentioned that before I would sign off on the repairs/upgrades I was going to call my Daddy. When the electricians said that this was very specialized work and may not be fully understood by my father I simply replied "Oh, didn't I mention it, my Daddy is the lead instructor for New York City's Apprenticeship program for the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers?" Amazingly the price was slashed in every single case.

I hate it when dishonest repair people think that they can pull the wool over my eyes just because I'm a woman. Just because I took a turn on the breasts line doesn't mean I skipped the brains line.

Nikki

Didn't mean to come down on you....

Not sure I can follow where you are at here, I guess we all are struggling with that part. No idea who is general contracting the house. Either you are, or the 2 fellows you hired are. Several of your messages kinda jump around on that issue. You say you are building part of it, but it sounds more like you are the go-fers of the deal, & several professional trades are doing the specialized work, and they are being lined up by the 2 fellows you hired - making them the GC in most people's view. If the 2 fellows are lining up the jobs to be done, I'm hard pressed to see what your involvement is in this deal. Just trying to sort out your explination to date, & I can't. It's kinda important, see later....

Sounded like you have a contract with them, & in addition to their professions, they are also doing the general contracting for you, if in a back-handed way.

So, you don't like what they are up to - I wouldn't either - but what to do now?

1. They may have a signed contract from you, they could try to enforce it & cost you a lot of hassle, time, and money. _If_ you have contracts with them making them the general contractor, even if you think you are.... This could get sticky.....

2. If you fire them & they don't cause problems, you still need to find & hire an electrician & a plumber to finish up - that will cost you a lot in both money & time. No one will give you a low bid on trying to fit in & clean up on such a deal - you will be at the tail end & no $$$ off for sure.

3. Likely if you push a lot to get things changed, they will at the least slow you down, if not just drop you from anything getting done. Time is money, you need a house, they can bilk - I mean work for - other people. Guess which they will do?

There are many ways you can continue to lose from this deal. Make sure you understand the contracts you signed, and where you are headed from here if this current deal is blown up beyond repair.

You have left a lot of grey area in your explination. GC's do get paid, was the inflated estamate including the GC fee? Things like that.

Just want to have you look at the options & where they take you. I understand you are in a bad spot, & don't mean to put you down on top of it! Can't change the past, make sure you get the future pointed in the best direction you can from here. Look over the options left to you.

--->Paul

Hey Paul -
I didn't think you were putting me down at all - I was TOTALLY agreeing with you that we got ourselves into this mess - and there's no easy way out

And you are RIGHT - it's confusing as to who the GC is - everybody I talk to is confused! including myself in the mirror!

My husband & I are technically the GCs - the contract we signed with these 2 knuckle-heads is for "consultant" and "liaison" work - EVERYONE we talk to says they're doing all the GC work - I guess the way we signed, they just don't have the liability of a GC - does that make sense?
Essentially, we got "took"

We got quotes from them for builder (it's a panelized house), HVAC, plumbing, electric, concrete pour, roofing, drywall, flooring, insulation, excavating, sand mound, and maybe I missed something -

I got better quotes (all were recommended by people we trust) on builder, HVAC, electric, roofing, excavating & sand mound.
I will be getting a plumbing quote soon.
We & friends will be doing drywall, insulation & flooring & helping with the builder & sand mound.

All I had to do on getting a cheaper excavating quote was ask the guy he already lined up - I said "that's too much" - in 5 minutes flat the price was slashed by $4000 - now I feel like I'm dealing with a used car salesman! that ticks me off - give me your best price to begin with
I don't mind guys making money - obviously, that's what everyone needs to do - but I don't appreciate padding their wallets & paying for kickbacks on the side

I know there are lots of variables in this story & I appreciate EVERYONE's feedback - I really do - it's a confusing story - trust me, I know - I'm right in the MIDDLE of it

Heather,

Sounds like you are just as capable of finding Subs as these 2 "consultants" and are doing a better job. If you have already paid them, just chalk it up to a learning experience and thank them for their time. I get the impression that you don't really want to use them for the plumbing and the electrical anyway.

I highly recommend that you find a good sheetrock person. We hired out the rough in plumbing and the sheetrock/texturing in our house. There were so many specialized tools needed to do the sheetrock, that by the time we figured the cost of those, we could hire the job done. We went and looked at the jobs this guy had done and were quite impressed. People come to our house and the first thing they always comment on is the awesome sheetrock/texture job-----how beautiful it is. Our friends down the road tried to do the job themselves. Finally gave up------it looked really bad. Hired some guys just cause they were so cheap. Still looks bad!

Where you can save a bundle is in the trim work and it isn't that hard. The painting. You can hang the cabinets. Decks will cost you a small fortune to have done, but are easy enough as a DIY. We went to Lowes to their tile laying class and we were able to lay the floor tile and do the shower. Insulation like you are doing. We did our own framing and Dh found a retired electrician to teach him to do the electrical. Jim would come out and say you need to buy this, this, this and then show him how to run the wire and Dh would do that and Jim would come and show him how to do the next step and check what he had done. Even with paying Jim and the cost of supplies, we only spent $1600 for the electrical in our house. Took Dh 4 weeks to get it all done, but saved a ton of money. Rough in plumbing cost us $3500. Dh was able to hook everything up then.

Mudwoman (love the name, by the way!)

THANKS for your encouragement -

i think everyone we've 'talked' to, here on the forum & just friend around home, just says "get rid of them & move on"

this weekend, we're just trying to figure out 2 things:

(1) how to get rid of them - ie get a lawyer involved or not

(2) how to scramble to get new workers - some we already have, but I will need a plumber, possibly an excavator who has done superior Walls before, and a concrete floor guy
Our Superior Walls are coming on the 27th & our Deltec package arrives on the 28th!
The Deltec package can sit for a little while - we have pallets & tarps lined up.
But we must be ready to set the Superior Walls on that date, so that will be a scramble -

THANKS everyone!!!!!

We spoke to our attorney today - it was actually an answered prayer, as who would think your attorney would answer his phone on Sat. afternoon!?!

He is drafting us a letter, outlining our reasons for terminating the contract & asking for most of the money back -
He says if they refuse, he will file a claim with the district justice and we will get our money, he's 99% sure

So, he's working on the letter today & will email it to us & then we are to set up an appt with "Jack&Jill" (that's what I've taken to calling them) & let them have it

I'll keep you posted - cross your fingers for us & your toes if you think of it!

We've never been involved in anything like this before! YIKES -

Now it's time to scramble for other workers!!

I've debated on commenting because in one way, I don't have a lot of promising things to say.... except NEVER EVER pay anyone in advance. Only a down payment in some situations, but never pay anyone in full in advance. Secondly, I've only read a few of the posts since I'm in a hurry and can't read them all but I didn't see if you ever said how MUCH you paid these two "liaisons".

Whatever you've paid them in advance, you'll pay heck trying to get it back, not to mention the incredible frustration you'll be going through. If they cheated you before, don't think they won't again during the rest of the project. I wouldn't want anyone around that I couldn't trust. It doesn't matter what the line of work... there are dishonest people in the world... which is unfortunate. Anymore I just won't hire anyone without a recommendation from someone I know (friend, relative, neighbor).

Only someone with legal experience can tell you if you have a leg to stand on should you wish to "terminate" the contract with them - and even then... you will have a heck of a fight on your hands trying to get your money back, if you ever do. Should you decide to fight them on this, I'd have everything documented in advance as to prices people quoted you, dates, etc... and then I'd probably consider contacting 20/20, my local news stations, etc. I'd do whatever I could to get the word out and shame them publicly. This is just my opinion from past experiences of my own.

I'm sorry for what you're going thru.

go down and make nice with the building department guys and ask them for reccomendations for a plumber electrician etc. you can ussually get good work from the ones that the inspectors like. in most places the inspectors know who the bumbs are. ask for referals and call them, maybe go and see the jobs if you can.

Great idea - I hadn't thought of asking the inspectors -
We are close with 2 of the township supervisors which has helped - in fact, one of them is doing our sandmound (and I guess he may be doing more now!)

We have our TERMINATION OF CONSULTATION SERVICES contract, so now we just have to schedule a meeting with these guys asap.
I'm so nervous, I could.....um......I don't know what! I'm just nervous! I'm not looking forward to it at all - I've never had to do anything like this! I'll keep you posted -

If any of you are "pray-ers" please do so for us in the next few days!
THANKS, Heather

Well, our contract has been terminated & we already got some $$ back, believe it or not

We met with both men this morning first thing -
Of course, we were nervous but convinced we were doing the right thing & we all remained calm

The guy who hasn't really done anything wrong was SO apologetic, offered to do whatever he could to remedy the situation and was the first to OFFER us our $$ back -
The guy who we had most of the problems with continued to lie, haggled a bit for some $$ and stood most of the time with his arms crossed

We will be scrambling to continue on with our process this late in the game -
Like I said, our Superior Walls are coming the 27th & our Deltec package the 28th. The excavator is set to start tomorrow or Thurs. :baby04:

We're okay with everything, except we need a plumber & I am in the throws of getting recommendations & then will have to deliver prints & get quotes, etc.

ah! Life is crazy but God is good -

THANKS everyone! What a ride!!

((((Heather)))) the very best of luck to you and DH.

You can take a lot of pride in what you did, facing them like that. I pray you can get all your money back.