Homesteading Village

You cant take the commune out of community.

A commune and a homestead are polar opposites.

You could create a self sustained village today. Problem is your
standard of living would be so low, no one would stay. You would
have to live like the native americans did, NOT the homesteaders.
In fact your standard of living would be worse, because the natives
had vast areas to hunt, and no hunting laws. You would have to
farm your food, that would require much more effort than hunting.

The homesteaders had the full might of New Englands and old Englands
Industries to draw from, things such as :canned goods, tin, barb wire,
firearms, textile mills, glass, spices, etc that you cant make yourselves.

You will be forced to compromise, get a small plot of land, run it as you
please, and work in a nearby city to support you lifestyle.

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Happiness is directly proportional to the ratio that trees out number humans.

try www.dideanvill.com it should work.... reality has not set in, just taking it steps at a time. We're all crazy. And btw...we have as we will have large land were open to alot of things. And for the most part, it is buy your land and build....we plan to offer some pre-built homes in town beyound that is build as you wish.

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Morria Giolla

Gothic Homesteader

"Riches I heed not, nor mans empty praise, Thou my inheiritance now and always!" ~ Be Thou My Vision

"No laws shall be made to establish religion or hinder the practice there of. Nor shall any laws be made to hinder the display of religious items." -from your charter

Obviously you mean to keep the residents all of one faith if you are planning a church and centering everything around your religion.

Would you really accept different faiths, as your charter implies, or even someone like me who doesn't believe in any gods?

It sounds like too strict of a community for me. On top of that, you clearly emphasize your distaste for people choosing who to entrust their love and future with (see number fourteen). I just can't see this place successful with such a close-minded attitude already set in place.

Intentional communities can be great... I just don't see yours taking off like those formed on a more open set of rules. Good luck, though.

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Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.
Mark Twain

Exactly. What is it precisely that you're trying to get from your commune that you can't get anywhere else more easily? Self-sufficiency? Why can't you do that in any town? A community of like-minded people? Join or found a church. Access to wholesome, home-grown food? You don't need to be out in the boonies to do that. The fact that you truly believe that the only way to attain your goals is to remove yourself and your "citizens" from society-at-large is suspect. Plus, where does the drive to "stick it out" come from? If all your members can find what you're promising there somewhere else, why are they going to work twice as hard there?

After perusing your website, it looks like you're out to do what every intentional community in the history of the world has tried to do--isolate yourselves to limit outside influences, control through a "common mission," and homogenize your citizens, down to the clothes they have access to and the school curriculum their children are privvy to, all of which is couched in a more inoccuous "goal" of homesteading and historical nostalgia. Scary.

There's a reason communes invariably fail: no one random person or two is capable of deciding for the masses what is and isn't morally appropriate, logistically preferable, and legally sound. Communes lack the critical mass--enough brains and bodies to decide how, why, and when things get done--to assure that all the members' interests are seen to. Eventually, a member or two gets disillusioned, causes strife (justified or not), and leaves, leaving more work and responsibility to the remaining members, who then start feeling overwhelmed, and the whole thing snowballs. Add into the mix everything from mid-life crises to substance abuse--and anything in between--and well, you get the drift.

Rugby. An authentic British colony.
I live 15mi from it.
They moved in and had no idea about natural laws.
(in a nut shell)
jim

Wow, what a creepy place. I was going to suggest a less ominous picture on the front page, but after reading the over-controlling puritan-like rules in the charter, the picture seems very fitting.

Good luck in "The Village".

I'm curious, and I understand if you don't want to answer, but if you do, how old are you? Or even more generally, are you even out of high school? Or even in high school yet?

The problem with such a venture is people and that people in general change their minds over time. What they might agree to now is completely different than they might in 10 years.

Suppose that you all agree to garden orgainically. Perhaps one couple finds the only easy supply of manure to them is fresh hog manure which they will sheet compost. Will everyone agree to the smell for a short while?

Suppose that you all agree to use solar energy or wood for heating. Perhaps one couple is offered 1,000 railroad ties laden with creosote free for the taking, and those making the offer will even haul them and dump them, but not stack them. Would everyone agree to a property with ties laying every which way? The smell of creosote buring, the ashes being used on a garden?
Perhaps another wishes to use coal, not pleasant when buring in many opinions.

Perhaps one of the organic gardeners suddenly decides that their crop will be entirely lost unless they use insecticides. Can they use such as their entire winter food supply may depend upon it? What about someone deciding to use chemical fertilizers because of the cost?

What about the couple that enjoys a little louder exhaust system on their auto. Not a problem until an illness forces one to go to work at 3 a.m.

Perhaps one couple decides to operate a small salvage yard for their livelyhood. Will you allow the old vehicles setting around?

What about the wonderful couple that winds up having children and then are the kind of folk that continually yell at their kids? I've had neighbors like that and it will drive you to distraction for certain.

What about the couple that wants a lush, green, well irrigated lawn while others desire to conserve water?

Can you handle the couple building their home of pallets and using tar paper as siding, or perhaps using free very odd colored paint because it is so hideous that no one else will buy it?

Little annoyances can turn into major irritations over time. Like minds once willing to compromise and agree eventually get to the point of no longer compromising on even the most minor thing.

Sounds great, but will it work? What all needs to be written down in order to review from time to time.

Best wishes, you will probably need them and more.

Just for interest, i have read parts of "Daily life in Medieval times" (3 books in one, with pictures !). Very interesting. And on further thinking, you can take the commune out of community. (communes are actually from medival times, villages that bought themeselves from their lord)

You get a Kingdom. Back in the day, villages were owned by (land)lords. The villages had its power stucture, the building were owned by the lord, workers were free to come, live, work, and go as the pleased (pretty much). As long as villages produced the set amounts of wheat, materials, and other goods, they lords would pretty much leave them alone, as they had several villages, and didnt want to spend their time at them (usually only a day a year) instead spend their time spending their money in the city. Plus they did not want to ---- off the workers and make them leave. The workers had a set number of days to work a year. Of course there were issues about how 'free' different people were, but is most mostly status.

Anyway another method that could work today, would be for a small core group, three or more (always odd number!) to put up the capital for land and building. Only those in the core group could vote. A central 'castle' could be built containing the Houses for the core group, the hall, storage barns, shops, and worker acomodations centered around acoutyard, the gaps fenced in. The core group would be responsible for attracting skilled workers such as carpenters, maybe a smith and doctor. The unskilled workers would perhaps be allowed to build 'temporary' stuctrues with no foundations in the woods from materials either locally made or bought by the core group. Ownership of the movable cabins would have to be negioated. Of course the problem is whats in it for the people who put up the capital ? Not much. Whats in it for the workers ? Not much. Why do it ? For the fun of it all ! :-)

IMHO in such a small setting, letting everyone vote is disasterous (look at this thread). Those who are really serious and are willing to put up the capital could rest assured that the village would run like they expect, the people who arent/dont cant destroy the setup, but are also risking nothing but their time.

Im sure some methods of additional payment would have to be developed. Maybe such as non-voting share of ownership (thus any profits made).

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Happiness is directly proportional to the ratio that trees out number humans.

Somebody has to say this


OMG!!!
If I thought this had any chance of getting off the ground Id be worried for you.

Its a wonderfull, noble idea.


Sounds like a hippie commune without the sex or drugs.



just move to an area that will embrace your ruarl and religous values and make lots of friends..you will have most of what you want without being up each others butts. Its crystal clear that you are being blinded by excitement, but are profoundly underestemating all the pitfalls. Im not saying this to be mean...Just tough love I guess.

I should add that that book contains detailed inventories, work schedules, and power structures, also which crops were planted, what materials the villages bought, how villages differed etc, anyone thinking of such would be interested in that book !
The three parts : Daily life in a : Mideval castle, Mideval Village, Mideval city.

I got it for my castle book collection, but its so much more !

Lets see if i can paste an example :
a good part:

"Livestock grazed in the tofts-- a cow or an ox,pigs,and chickens. Many villagers owned sheep, but they were not kept in the toft. In summer and fall, they were driven out into the marsh to graze, and in winter they were penned in the manor fold so that the lord could profit from their valuable manure. The richer villagers had manure piles, accumulated from their other animals; two villagers were fined when their dung heaps impinged "on the common highway, to the common harm", and anothe paid threepence for license to place his on the common next to his house."

anyway if that sounds interesting ....

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Happiness is directly proportional to the ratio that trees out number humans.

It would be FAR worse than that... the natives at least had grown up learning the hunting skills in question. Can any of these people track? Trap? Brain tan hides? Are they USED to going around half frozen in winter, and tolerating all kinds of hardships that would sent most moderns to the E.R. or rubber room?

Note that the region they're talking about had no native Agriculture. Folk up there were entirely hunters, occasionally trading meat & hides for dried garden tucker grown by agriculture tribes over on the Upper Missouri river.

On the White side, if it wasn't for mining & govt subsidies (water projects, etc), homesteading would have failed in most of the non-coastal west.... and even as it was the population has continued DROPPING since the region was first homesteaded. Water was too sparse or erratic, weather was too harsh, to dependably grow anything other than cows (& it's been calculated that going back to free range bison herds, & sustainably managing them, would be more economically efficient)..... and THAT wasn't always a paying proposition.

Except there are few decent sized cities up there.... so they're either facing a migrant labor situation (men go off & work in distant bigger cities for much of the year, a la Mohawk steelworkers, or Mexican illegals coming to the U.S.) OR they're talking trying to support the community off minimum wage jobs in small towns. Since they DON'T have a rich backer to give them everything they want, mortgage free, this works only if you are willing to force your faith to sustain a poverty line existance.

I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but those FICTIONAL television shows are less than worthless for preparing one to live a real life rural existance, especially one in the harsh region you've picked.

Unless you plan to charge admission to a living history celtic village, the hunting hut is also irrellevant..... and under real world (modern) conditions could be duplicated easier with a tarp & five minutes work with a hatchet..... or replaced entirely with a $50 tent that would last MORE than 3 years AND be portable to boot.

I AM Native American.... anthropologists with PhD's are notorious for not having a clue.... a mere two HS credits won't help you there. Ditto for a history class dealing with a culture that was largely gone a millennia before you were even born, ONE credit won't help either.

Elsewhere you mentioned parents & grandparents raised on a farm or ranch. Were YOU? Were any of your other proposed group members? THAT might be of assistance, in which case you'd only have to deal with all the OTHER social stresses that caused planned communities to fail back in centuries when people either already HAD rural skills or could pick them up easier.

Every one of your people NOT raised rurally is going to have a fair bit of trouble adjusting. Some won't be able to tolerate the life, and WILL drop out.... breaking up familial & social ties in the process. What will you do if one spouse leaves but the other wants to stay? Your code says marriage is forever.....

I GREATLY sympathize with your frustrations & goals..... but don't think you've any chance whatsoever as your plans are now. "Maybe" if you all start VERY small & work on gaining skills & tight interpersonal relationships FIRST for 5-6 years, & build up a cadre of people who CAN get along (try ALL living in the same house during this time.... if you can get along there, you MIGHT be able to continue being neighbors for the next few decades) before trying to buy anything bigger than a few acres.

Have you considered trying to join up with another related community? They may not be quite what you want, and you wouldn't be in charge, but half a loaf is better than none. You might be able to broker a "dual culture" deal, where y'all cooperate on survival & basic features, but go your own way religiously & culturally. And you'd gain invaluable skills & experiance (toleration included) in the process.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morriagiolla LOL....

Free spirits won't hack it. Villages survived in the old days by rigidly enforcing rules ("traditions", "superstitions", "customs", etc) that bound them together & kept them safe. Y'all won't have grown up doing certain chores without thought & sharing the SAME unconcious assumptions about what is needed, you're going to have a lot of trouble teaching people to dependably do the work & you WILL lose people who refuse to learn.

As to what faith people practice at home that is there bussiness. As well...our views on marriage are as we as a whole believe. As well, that is just a tempo charter for the FIRST settlement....we will edit it as we grow to bigger land. (Remember our first lot is inside another city...with one person owning the land.)

LOL....ummm....what would you say about scarry if you knew abunch of Christian Goths and Punks were founding this place?

I am 23 (11 days from it actually). And our eldest members are in their 30's.



HAVE ANY OF YOU HEARD OF DREAMING BIG?

HAVE ANY OF YOU HEARD OF YOUTH RANCHES?

HAVE ANY OF YOU LIVED AS I HAVE LIVED?

you think I have just read the books? NO... I walk between the times soo to speak...I am an old soul in a modern body.
end

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Morria Giolla

Gothic Homesteader

"Riches I heed not, nor mans empty praise, Thou my inheiritance now and always!" ~ Be Thou My Vision

I would say, "that is exactly what I suspected was going on". The names, VanHelsing (lol), and the pictures gave it away. Again, the picture is quite fitting then. Have fun. bwahaha.

Perhaps if you enlightened us on how you have lived, we'd have more understanding of your skills and experience. Those are legitimate questions - do you have husbandry and gardening skills? Or are you relying on past life experience, as it sounds?

I have dreamed big - I am dreaming big. Most everyone here is not just a dreamer, they are doers. You would learn alot listening to them.

Youth ranches - backed with money, prebuilt, experienced hands guiding, not many surprises.

People of all faiths as long as they conform to the beliefs of yor religion. Nothing wrong with that, it's your village, but it sounds as if this village has a strong religious drive behind it. You should be clear and upfront about it.

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Ultra Lord is not afraid of chickens!

Try not to let all the negative comments get to you. I think it's great to have big dreams. I have them myself. I drew up a community layout on a sheet of poster paper. It has a community center, clinic/fitness center, general store, community workshop and garage, food processing building, etc. My plan has enough windmills and solar panels to provide siginificant revenue from selling the excess power to the local utility company. I'd offer to work with you but Montana is too far north for me. Also, I also have an offer from someone who owns 160 acres near Oklahoma City to work with him to set up a homesteading community.

People that think 'the village' is some kind guide for homesteading communities are idiots trying to show how little they really know. The same for those that suggest that you would HAVE to live like Native Americans if you want to have a homesteading community. I did spend a day at Plymouth Plantation but you MUST understand that they were using the most modern technology of their time. It is foolish to assume in order to have a homesteading community, you MUST abandon all modern technology. Most successful homesteading communities use technology that compliments their homesteading lifestyle.

The toughest problems that homesteading communities face are money and dedicated people. In this age of aggressive greed, the idea of a community where everyone benefits from the communities efforts is mocked and scorned. That was the whole point behind the propaganda movie 'the village'. The movie gave people with low IQs the idea that there is something wrong or evil with people that want to live in a homesteading community.

If you do have some people that would like to start a homesteading community, you are very fortunate. You should have an alternate plan for a smaller homestead for your group and maybe a few others. You shouldn't count on anyone else to help your community or it is almost certain to fail.

Dearest young persons of Didean,
Good luck. Those of us with experience and knowledge of history don't think you are going to make it more than one winter, maybe two.

Go forth and prove us wrong. If you can.

Rose

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Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

Huh? What are talking about? Have you seen The Village? It's a sci-fi horror movie set in the 19th century. It has as much to do with real homesteading as Jason and Freddie Kruger.

Do you have a link for a "successful homesteading community"? I've never heard of one that has actually succeeded. I'd be interested to hear of one of these ideas that has actually come to fruition. Thanks.

Ok, I was asked what I know.... here are my top ten thus far:

1. Grow my own herbs (cooking and medican)
2. Garden for veggies
3. Heat with wood (mostly)
4. Barter for most of my suplizes
5. Bicycle most places
6. Scavage (In city, praires, and in the woods in OK...family lands)
7. Bake alot
8. Weave blankets
9. Have hunted game (in frezer)
10. Gaining more knowledge and doing

As well, I have done reinactment at the Local Cowtown Historic Living History Museam. Run a ren. faire every year.

I am going out this fall to my uncle's learn about raising goats and cattle (he is a goat/cattle rancher).

I am learning to use fire arms and archery too.

The list goes on....

__________________
Morria Giolla

Gothic Homesteader

"Riches I heed not, nor mans empty praise, Thou my inheiritance now and always!" ~ Be Thou My Vision

I'd say your freezer wasn't working if it put up any kind of fight at all...