Homesteading Village

I have been there..... short term....but yes. And it cant be as bad as the winter in the UP of Michigan (spent time with homesteaders there.)

I am intentionally being somewhat of a Devil's Advocate here, but I do get the impression you are being incredibly naive on this. It appears you are appealing to third-parties for funding through PayPal donations to your web site. Sorry, it just ain't gonna fly. Why should someone donate any significant amount of money for a fussy sketch, fuzzy pictures and fussy tenets and livestock consisting of a dog and cat?

Your money is going to have to come from those willing to make the committment to participate. If you can get six family groups or individuals to buy into the concept to the tune of say $200K (unrefundable) each, then you might be able to get it off the ground. For that sort of money someone can set up a rather nice private homestead and not have to worry about the group interactions involved.

You are going to run into the problem of everyone's responsibility becoming no one's responsibility. Take your community garden. How will you distribute what is harvested? You may say to each according to their needs. OK, sounds fair, but who is to do the work involved? You may say for each according to their availability or what they receive of the harvest. Sorry, ain't gonna work. Before long there will be a large disparity between those who actually work in the garden and those who benefit most from the harvest. You will quickly have a peasant revolt on your hands.

Since you don't plan to sell only craft-type items as income, are you aware of the quite high volume you have to produce and sell to making any time of significant income off of it? I do hope you are not planning on people flocking to your door. Same for your photo and herbal studio. Do you expect people to come out to you? Why, when they can get the same services locally?

Don't do your research on how Native American Indians lived, but rather look to the peasant histories and communal farms* of much of the Eastern European countries. It is more similiar to what you plan. Note they worked HARD from before sun-up to long after sundown just to eke by. A book I highly recommend is Poland by James Mitchner.

I again recommend down-scaling your plans/dreams/vision or whatever to something on a much more manageable scale.

* An article appears in I believe Successful Farming several years ago about a youth from a collective farm in Russia staying the summer with an American farm family out west. He noted plans for what to do that day were made largely over breakfast, such as someone saying he wanted to harvest the north 40 that day. He noted on the collective such a decision would have required several committee meetings over several weeks.

Thank you for your advice.

Now....here is part of the reason we are getting alot of land.....space! We dont plan on using it all in the beginnings.

As to pay-pal donations mainly that is for the memebers of the village. ^_^ easy way to pool the money together. 70 dollars in the fund....out of 150. (We had some early expises.)

The selling stuff....will grow over TIME....slow to begin with.

The FARMERS will be in charge of the farm stuff.
The RANCHERS the cattle/goats.
They will make the desistions as to what gets done when....no commities.

I have and am studying more than Native American. ^_^.... Thanks for the Adivce.

I have been working the past few weeks....sorry for the slack off of info....

Here is the deal.... in about 7 years we plan on having land for our shadow tara (safe house for at risk young adults). Then as money comes the land around it will be built into Didean.

Apparently there are literally hundreds of ICs out there already ranging from a couple families sharing a house to a small number of self-supporting houses on acreage to small interactive subdivisions to more or less full blown communes. Before venturing out on your own perhaps you should check some of them out. Just do a www.google.com search on Intentional Communities. As noted, there is at least one publication dedicated to the concept.

Ken and Paul make some excellent points. Generally speaking, these types of communities would seem to require a tremendous change in human nature to be successful. A lot of us read your plans, and they seem to be long on faith and short on details. My Dad used to tell me: "Wish in one hand and sh*t in the other; see which one gets full first."

Never underestimate the difficulties of collective action. My wife and I disagree some times about whether to purchase a heifer at a herd dispersal, piece of equipment, how long to let the corn dry down in the field. When I first started farming with my Dad, I bought about 300 feeder pigs and borrowed from the bank to do this against what little I owned. I didn't ask him, just did it. He reminded me just about everyday how bad an idea this was, and if we hadn't made decent money on them, we might not have continued on together. I know of two family farms (father and sons) within three miles of me that have dissolved because they couldn't get along. All of them still farm, they just haven't talked to one another for about 20 years. You say that the farmers would make the farming decisions, not a committee. Unless there's only one farmer, there are multiple decision-makers. Homesteaders, farmers, ranchers and other like-minded individuals tend to be mighty independent

I think part of the problem is that you see this as today being point A (nothing done yet) and point B (the future) all this stuff in place. What's missing is all of the in-between. How are you going to afford all of the initial start-up costs, from construction to seedstock to equipment, etc. Who is going to do all this building, and where are all the building materials going to come from.

I might be wrong, but it seems you plan on starting with multiple families, so there must be some fairly large scale involved here, you're starting with virtually no background in agriculture or animal husbandry, and plan to do this in an area with which you have no direct experience growing crops and raising livestock. That's quite a leap. Depending on where in MT or WY, might be dryland that is good only for grazing at light stocking levels and possibly wheat or other dryland crop. What if you have a dry summer or harsh winter and need to purchase feed for livestock? How much will you need? Just speaking from my own experience, I could travel 30-50 miles and find differences in growing season, soil types, water table -- all of which impact what crops I can raise and what yields I can expect on average.

You can do whatever you want, but to roll the dice on such a grand scale with limited info and experience is pretty risky. Might be better to buy a few acres and start off getting some experience with livestock and crops on a smaller scale.

One other thing that I didn't understand was why you'd expect to receive paypal donations, but one reason you might not have received much is the link doesn't work.

__________________
"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." Gen. George S. Patton Jr.

Good points....and I have been studying intentional communities. What I forgot to say is....my family has 12 acers in Oklahoma owned by 6 families (all in the clan). It is #1 on a shale hill, #2 has very, very poor soil, #3 hardly any rain all summer and 105+ temps, #4 only goats, chickens, dogs and cats do well there (unless you count the rattlesnakes, tree frogs, lizzards and deer), #5 it DOES have Ample wood, walnuts, pricklypear cattus, and blackberries. So....despit the fact alot of the time I am in Kansas....we are part of a community to begin with (work took us here.....we're the major money makers of the clan along with one uncle)

we are looking to do this too...we have land and willing to share with others...just have to find those others..would love to have a small homestead village...anyone up for it..."wehes5@yahoo.com"

Ok, here is the update....we're starting in about two years with a small lot with two large garden plots and a two story home. Two to three small familes will share this place. From there we will branch out to build shadow tara, and then didean. ^_^

I think the Mormons in Utah had the best ideas for starting communities. I would suggest you look into their history of settling areas.

I want to live in such a community.

I've visited some IC's and I took a class from Diane Leaf Christian (the author of the leading IC and editor of Communities magazine). I've been to some IC forming meetings and talked to gobs and gobs of folks about these ideas.

Right now I think that Earthaven probably has the best model.

And ic.org is the place to see the big list of communities.

I think it would be mighty difficult to have a full eco-system farm without some form of IC. I suppose somebody rich could pay lots of people to do it, but then it just isn't the same as community.

I really, really want to be part of a full farm ecosystem community. I'm not sure that such a thing exists, or that I can make it happen, but I do know that I want it.

I lived in Montana for nine years. I think Montana is a great place to do this sort of thing. I think that near Missoula would be the best place.

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[raising chickens] [diatomaceous earth] [permaculture] [rocket mass heater] [lawn care]

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Im guessing there is a board of people who tell everyone they cant have a messy yard too, and they cant build anything without permission. Ever town Ive heard of has a gestapo

a town with a "you mind your business, and I'll mind mine" attitude without a hundred rules about what an individual can do on their own property.

I just tried the link that the "didean" community person posted. No longer there.

Reality must have set in.

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Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

well said osarksnick!!! the dakotas and montana have
your style of living, called Hutterite and Mennonite

do a google search on "gulching" for some interesting information.

donsgal

I have been in contact with someone near Olahoma City that I found on the IC.ORG website. He has 160 acres and wants to start a homesteading village. I am concerned about the other members abilities and personalities so I am still keeping my options open. I will have a good list if properties that I can buy and set up my own homestead if necessary. I bought a handyman's special house in 2001. I have had several years experience with home repair and landscaping with a backhoe/loader.

Many people that want to form a homesteading village know exactly what the village will look like (eventually) but they have no idea of what is necessary to go from raw land to a finished village. They also don't realize how long it takes to get things done. Honestly, it sounds like you haven't given enough thought to the basics. Under ideal conditions, your homesteading village will take about 20 years and about 30 million dollars to complete.

A church or academy should be at the bottom of your list. Water, sanitation, and basic housing should be at the top of your list. Sewage handling for a village like you're considering will cost you a couple million. Does anyone in your group know how to operate a backhoe or excavator? Is anyone in your group a plumber, carpenter or electrician?

My first considerations for our village are water and soil conditions.There's more to getting water than just drilling a hole in the ground and sticking a pipe in the hole. Older sewage treatment systems were an environmental disaster. Newer designs produce energy and fertilizer for forestry and crops that aren't used for human consumption. Humanure can be used on crops that are being grown to produce biodiesel or methanol since nobody will be drinking it. A river or stream running through the property can be a great source of power or a flooding problem. You need to have some knowledge about how to recognize and handle these problems. It's these kinds of problems that cause many homesteading communities to fail.

I have plans and drawings for a homesteading community very similar to what you are thinking about. The biggest problem isn't money, it's people. It takes hard work and dedication to build a community like this. Most of the people that want to join my community are quick to tell me that they have no money. My reply is that I can get all of the money we need from government and corporate grants. I just need people willing to learn how to apply for the grants. Some of the people that replied didn't have any job skills and didn't seem too interested in doing any work in the community. Some people had low-paying jobs and it seems like they want to live someplace where they wouldn't have to do any work. Almost everyone quit writing when they realized that I wasn't offering them a work-free paradise.

The only way I can ever see an intentionally planned "homesteading village" workingis to pattern it, of all things, on a "planned community" -- use the SAME laws intended to protect a development of mcmansions on postage stamp lots to develop and protect the homesteading community.

i.e. ...

A "developer" -- the visionary -- buys several hundred acres.

Then s/he puts in a water system to ensure a good water supply, a power system (ecologically friendly power plant of some sort -- solar, wind, or whatever -- or conventional grid), streets, sewer system, etc. Everything necessary to ensure the health and safety of the residents.

Then the developer lays out CC&Rs protecting the homesteading lifestyle AND protecting the residents from each other. Likely CC&R's might include:

A LIMIT on the number of livestock and types of livestock. A family cow is fine. Fifty hogs in 500 square foot paddock, not so fine. Animals must be in safe enclosures suitable to the type of animal -- define "safe" -- prevents somebody's cow, hog, or ostrich from getting out and hurting somebody, or the neighbor's goats from getting out and killing a (grrrrr!) 100 year old tree.

CC&R's require EVERY property to have a GOOD perimeter fence -- keeps family dogs confined and out of the neighbor's chicken coop or sheep pasture. Also, a limit on the number of dogs; special provision for exceptions for bonafide breeders. Probably the most economical way to do this would be for the developer to simply fence every lot with standard chain link fencing before selling the lots.

CC&R's prevent subdivision of lots, which are set at a good size -- 3 to 5 acres would probably be appropriate.

Also, community buildings -- an arena, community gardens, a fishing pond, swimming pool, etc. -- might then be feasible.

Etc. etc. etc. -- see what I'm getting at? Set up CC&Rs that establish protection of a rural homesteading lifestyle. Nothing that says what color your house has to be, or that you can't HAVE an ugly chicken coop, but the homeowner's association can then actually PROTECT the residents from real problems.

I suspect, then, you could interest people and sell lots.

But this would take millions of dollars to start up.

Leva

I think you may be misinformed on this. WY is high elevation. Lowest point is about 4300'. The elevation will add more to the cold than you think.

Check out Upper Canada Village http://uppercanadavillage.com/home.htm. It's a semi-living heritage village, and museum, from the late 1800's with working water driven sawmill, flour mill, and woolen mill. They also have a broom maker, tin smith, blacksmith, farrier, cabinet maker, cheese factory, bakery, and a full working farm. Everything used in the village from food to bed linens and some clothing is made in the village. Anything extra is sold to the public. I love the flour and am still trying to figure away to get sawn planks into my car.

It's not exactly a homesteading village but it might give you ideas on organization and such.