Neighbor Fencing the Access Road

This is another thread we can refer to when people ask about a lovely property, has an easement (to it or across it) but that shouldn't cause any problems right....?????

My county has practicly quit doing the easement thing for driveways, as it has caused them so much grief & time sorting out these types of problems. If you split proprty these days you must have real access to frontage if at all possible.

On ytmag.com there is a fellow who bought a large lot from a realitor, come spring the farmer that rented this property in the past sprayed (including some new trees) & planted it all to soybeans. The fellow is really really mad at the farmer.

But, ag lease laws in most states allow perpetual oral lease agreements for ag land, _unless_ termination is given in writing by such & such a date, typically well before March. If the previous owner, developer/realitor, or new owner did not give such legal notice in time, the farmer has the right to continue farming the land as he had in the past for the terms he did in the past - or get just compensation for the lease being broken. So, this new city fellow is all in a huff over the 'sob farmer' as he calls him, when his beef _really_ should be with the realitor/ developer who stung him with an undisclosed lease on the property. I can understand the new guy being mad - I would be too, but his anger is pointed totally at the wrong guy.....

We get ourselves all messed up when we get to a new place & try to apply our old values. Need to adjust - as this new neighbor clearly is not doing.

Sorry you are having the troubles, thanks for sharing.

--->Paul

This kind of stuff is why we are not selling the front 2 acres and building a house on the back 8. AND why my neighbor loves us, he knows he could have done a lot worse....he prays everynight we will not move away.

__________________
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803–1882)

SO What Happened?

Seems everyone agrees easements are a good idea (keeps you from being land-locked) but no one wants one across their property...

Sorry if it seems I'm leaving you hanging there, Kenneth, but I DON"T KNOW YET!!

Left a message for the lawyer/neighbors. They have some family matters right now, so I don't expect to hear from them immediately.

Talked to the guy who sold the land/handled the parceling this morning, though, and he said that Mean Neighbor was in his office a couple months ago, asking about putting in fencing. The realtor told him NO WAY!! You can't do that!!

Obviously, Mean Neighbor (MN) thinks he is above the law.

This guy is scary. I mean, I am really worried that he'll do something like poison the garden or something... He reminds me of a couple people from the past who should be working a 12-Step program, or rather, who WERE working a program, and then stopped.

Maybe he'll get disgusted and sell. But I doubt it.
:no:

Pony!

This sounds just like what we are going through. There are 5 of us that have deeded access to a road that runs in front of a "neighbors." The road is 1 mile long and is along maybe 1/2 half of these folks property. These people came to one of our yearly road maintinance meetings and told us that they wanted us to pay to have their land surveyed (something that they did not do as they did an owner financing deal) because they think that the road "has moved." Our house is 150 years old, the road has always been the only access back to our property. There are aerials that were done in the 50's that show the road in the same place- running right in front of their home. So we said no deal to paying for their survey. They had it done themselves and wonder of wonders, it has come out in their favor, despite the two previous surveys that had been done and showed no change. The outcome of this will probably be that the court will order a new survey and that will decide the property lines. There is no way that they can restrict our access, but she can cost us some $. These people raise llamas, I noticed your neighbor has alpacas..... People are sometimes so stupid that for (in our case) they will alienate good neighbors all for a SMALL piece of property. I wish you luck.....

Pony,

The easement is what it is. You need to check the recorded easement to see what it says. Then you need to figure out where it actually runs. Understand that all of the outcomes depend on the wording of the easement. For example, I recently had to give an easement to the company financing one of the parcels we purchased. It was landlocked with no easement (split off from a neighbors property). The county didn't require an easement because we owned the adjacent land. When we went to purchase this last parcel they wanted us to give the easement in order to "protect" themselves.

They started with a blanket easement. I ended up having a lawyer write a very detailed easement with a lot of conditions. The day we pay off the mortgage that easement goes away.

In any event, depending on the terms of the easement this man could make your life miserable. For example, I included in the easement that all damage (and maintenance) to the drive had to be paid by the easement holder at the discretion of the easement grantor.

Speak to the person. If reasonableness doesn't work then take whatever steps are appropriate to get the message through and achieve your goals.

You do need to understand that they do own the land. In many states he does have the right to fence but would need to give you access of some sort.

As usual, just my 2 cents.

Mike

Between your car and your land problems, all you need is a bit more of this kind of luck and you'll be so well-schooled in law that you could pass the bar.

I'm really sorry to hear about all the goings-on but I have to say that you have really handled yourself well through all of this. You are setting a good example for the rest of us.

And I had to laugh when I thought about how this fool would feel if he found out that hundred (thousands?) of your online neighbors now know him as MN

/VM

Here many towns are requiring those "shared driveways" with an easement thru the land. What a nightmare! I for one would never buy a home on a shared driveway. The reason for requiring them is environmental. How good would it be for the environment if someone were to get shot over a driveway?

well technically speaking, they would eventually compost so... LOL

but I do understand what your saying.

__________________
"Let the beauty we love, be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." Rumi

Mike,

The easement is painfully specific: the road is shared, no gated/fenced entry, pedestrian and vehicular egress.

MN has decided that he owns my in-laws side of the driveway. Why? Well, it turns out that he saw a surveyor's mark for the edge of the 33' easement, and decided that was the iron pipe mark.

Heard from the wife of the neighbor who ran over there (2 hours' drive!) to talk some sense into MN. MN LIED like a rug! He said that he NEVER said anything to anyone about a fence (of course, people down at the land office know better because he was in there a couple months ago looking to get support for blocking the easement with a fence, and FIL is hardly known for fabricating tales), that he is not planning to put in any fences at all -- but repeated that he has the right to if he wants, and that Mom and Dad's land is really his.

Oy. Of course, Good Neighbor (GN) does not believe MN for a moment. He just told him straight out that he hopes MN doesn't get it into his head to put a fence on that easement.

Ooooh! MN is so mean, and he LIES!!!! I cannot stand liars. MN had better be careful, or I'll lose my self-control and give him a Patented PonyKick<tm>. The marks on his bottom will look like this: UU

:haha:

I am so glad we have more GNs than MNs -- but the MNs can make things so difficult!

Pony!

Pony,

If your neighbor is an attorney, why are you all screwing around. Go to the county court and get an injunction prohibiting him from impeding your access across the easement. End of discussion. If he does fence (without a gate) after you have an injunction then all you have to do is call the county sheriff and have them watch while you cut the fence (Assuming he is foolish enough to try to fence with an injunction in place).

Mike

Since he hasn't impeded there access yet they have no grounds to get one. Marking lines on the access no way impedes there access. Maybe he was marking the corner so he could messure over the width of the easment and put the fence there. If they did try to get an injunction it could easily be viewed as harassment. Then Pony is the one in trouble instead of the MN.

Go back and read the original post. MN stated that he was going to place the fence. That coupled with the marking would be sufficient basis to get an injunction. If he has no intent then the injunction makes no difference to him. If he feels he has the right to fence then he can ask the judge to remove the injunction.

It would be much more direct and simpler to shoot him but that might raise other legal issues.

Mike

Yeah, he has a night job, and someone might eventually miss him... 'Sides that, WI doesn't recognize "He needed killin'" as a valid defense.
:haha:

Seriously, he now denies that he intends to put up a fence, don't know that the markings would make a difference, but we'll see what happens when the six of us (folks, us, lawyers) show up this weekend.

I think the guy has some underlying "jerk" tendencies, and he's been out there alone too much, and has lost touch with reality.

Folks are going to get a new survey (which is goofy, but that's what they want to do, and they're planning to build soon anyway, Mom says). Then, if he gives any more flak, he has the option of taking it to court or shutting up. Or selling, but I doubt he'd do that. If he starts to put up a fence, we'll call the sheriff and let the DA get involved.

We'd all just like to keep it out of court. Our GN friends have personal issues, we have financial issues... and the rest of us are not there on a regular basis.

OTOH, maybe this is the incentive we've needed.

Pony!

I havent had to shoot at a nieghbor for about 4 years... word got around i guess... cant shoot at my property while i am watching, i return fire.

Pony, your MN sounds like the cheese done slid off his cracker..... maybe he should be shown the way to the cheese factory?

If you wanna kow more about the law in your jurisdiction Cornell Law Library has links to every state's codes, and has the USC, UCC and some case citations there as well.... and it dont cost a whole bunch to learn..... I been doing my own paperwork since 1992, and found out early on, the laws are written so as an attorney can read them.... seeing how they am be college edumacated extra years..... anyhow once you start it gets easier as you go...... even if a person buys books or CD's to have without going online to read.

William

__________________
Upon the plains of hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who when on the dawn of victory paused to rest, and there resting died.
- John Dretschmer

I'm not a real good shot -- yet. I'm afraid I may actually hit someone!

I'd love to call the Twinkie Mobile to come and give him a ride to see King Ding Dong, that's for sure.

You're right, though. He has a history of "issues" and those, coupled with Land Lust, have certainly caused his tenuous grip on reality to slip quite a bit.

Well, since I finally got through Dick and Jane, I guess it's time to get around to those big books without pictures!

Thanks for the suggestion! I think I'll check out the library first -- it's easier to read heavy stuff at the table than online.

Pony!

Never ever buy land with an easment or ROW! I don't care if it's relatives or whatever! I have been there and done that. There is no such thing as an agreement between parties in the real world it exists only on paper to sell a piece of land. Good neighbors and relatives don't last forever, but the aggravation of an easment or ROW will.

__________________
"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self confidence"
Robert Frost

I guess we are blessed... Our MN wanted to fence off the easment, and told the sherriff so,, sherriff said NOPE you dont... We found out later about it. So glad we didnt have to hassle that one. But, any time we try to create drainage, he objects. (read - fills in the ditches with dirt so water runs down the road) We now have a nice barbed wire fence that runs right along the road. I dont object, can still get up and down the road, and I got to put up the gate, as the road ends at our place! lol! Best to you Pony

"One afternoon it was very hot working outside. For a break I sat in our van, turned on the AC and fell asleep because I got so comfortable. My husband was just coming over to wake me up when this neighbor came over the wall and took a board and began banging on the van door. He didn't like the noise of the engine running!"

Uh off topic, but have you not heard of carbon monoxide poisoning?

I have ten acres that has an easement across some guys land. deeded easement. I've owned it now bout 26 years. anyway this guy sells his land to another about 7 years ago and the new guy put up a barbed wire fence across the driveway, put up an outhouse in the driveway, and dropped trees and brush across it. I tried talking to him but he said that he won't fix it until I bring the sherriff and a surveyor. he said that I have another easement that I can use and that he didn't read that part of the deed when he bought the land. Like its my fault. Now it gets funny. his lawyer whom he referred me to talk with just happens to be the same lawyer who originally handled my property in 1980.
so I explain to said lawyer that I believe he has a conflict of interest. so he hands over the details of all this to his new partner. OK....First I show him deeds and records and explain that I feel he should inform his client of the law, and recommend he remove "stuff". Anyway it took about two years of writing letters and visiting to get it resolved. Seems that this rat, (lawyer) had a retainer from client to represent him and they were trying to bulldog this easement from me. I just waited till his money ran out and this guy took down all his "stuff". He kept trying to get me to sign off on my deeded ROW. The world is full of A--holes and bigger lawyer A--holes giving them advice.
What's the difference between a lawyer and a lab rat?
Theres some things that even a rat won't do.