Bear Dog?

You can check out my website at www.megaamericanbulldogs.com . I breed working American Bulldogs (meaning healthy bulldogs with working titles). On the first page of my website there is a link titled "Dog Resources" you will be able to find breeders for American Bulldogs and other breeds there. You can even see them listed by state.
To be fair to the other breeds American Bulldogs do have prey drive as well (some to a lesser or greater degree --- all dogs do to some extent).
If you go with an American Bulldog make sure they are tested and proven parents. You should find enough information on my website to be able to tell if they are or not.
Feel free to call me or email me with questions.

I think American Bulldogs can be a FANTASTIC dog BUT- do not get one if you are not prepared to do major training, very good socialization, and taking a lot of flack from people about having 'that dangerous pit bull' around your daughter. (You might also check with your homeowner's insurance to make sure they are allowed first, and price alternate insurance BEFORE you bring the dog home if they aren't.)

They are nice dogs. They are strong, brave, dedicated to their families, very athletic and will go through fire for their owners. They're also pig headed, stubborn, physically STRONG dogs that if not trained from the get-go, can be awful. They aen't a dog you can let bring up themselves- the nice ones I've been around have all, without exception, either been in VERY experienced homes of hunters or competitors in weightpull or agility OR massively socialized and taken to obedience class from puppyhood.

I think honestly, any large, decently intelligent dog that is treated well will surprise you in this situation. I would honestly NOT recommend an Akita- hard to find a reputable breeder who has both health AND temperament- and I think an AmBull may be more dog than you need. Even some of the other traditionally 'scary protection' breeds (particularly rotts) I think are easier to live with than AmBulls. And even non-protection breeds that simply love kids- farm collies, english shepherds, retrievers- will, in a pinch, frequently get between you and something threatening. (I'd very seriously look into farmcollies and ES- a story came over the AWFA list on Friday about a dog that protected his owner and other dog from a gator down in florida.) I think those breeds are a little lower maintance as far as training and socialization goes.

You should also get your wife in on this- make sure SHE is comfortable with an AmBull and feels physically able to handle a dog that big and strong- and is comfortable with it around your daughter.

I'm not trying to dissaude you- BUT- I have a friend who does American Bulldog rescue, and she gets a LOT of dogs in from people who really meant well and just weren't prepared to deal with the needs the breed. And they can be very difficult to place through rescue (although there are some great ones in rescue!) because if they've gotten a year of bad habits, sometimes it can be difficult to re-train them enough to safely and ethically place in a new home.

Cait
PS: Can't remember if Americanbulldogs mentioned it or not, but expect BAER testing on parents or puppies- all white dogs can be deaf and it's not too rare in colored dogs, either.

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"Dogs may not be our whole lives, but they make our lives whole." Roger Caras

I will have to second the Akita. Large lovable dogs that will give their lives to protect their family without a second thought.

How are Bull Mastifs and Chessepekbay Retrievers?I'm not a fan of Rots.I've heard mixed opinions about Akits,they seem to have become the Yuppie Puppy.I know there alot of exotic breeds that are supposed to be great,a friwnd bought a Dogo(Argentinian mastif)that has been nothing but problems.Thanks again,BASIC.

I wouldn't go with a chessy they're water dogs so they produce alot of oils and it's said when they lay down for a while then get up it's like an oil slick, that just doesn't seem like soemthing I'd like to find in my bed or on my couch.
mastiffs can have joint issues, an akita would be okay if you got it from someone who had healthy even tempered adults, they dont seem to have as many health issues as other dogs their size and as I said before they can be very intimidating, same with rotties.

I agree with those that say you don't need a special breed. Just go around to the shelters in your area and find a large-ish, confident, outgoing dog who is good with kids. If you get an adult, you'll already know what their personality is and not have to guess what they'll be like when they grow up. Personality is of course affected by breed, but breed is no guarantee--it really is an individual thing in the end. Black bears aren't that dangerous--in my experience, they always run the other way when confronted by people and/or big dogs, unless you do something dumb like get between a mom and her cubs. I think you have to be careful not to get a dog with high prey drive/excessive confidence that's stupid enough to chase down an otherwise harmless fleeing bear. That's a good way to end up with a dead dog for no good reason. You just want one that'll stick by you and bark. Many retriever mixes, shepherd mixes, aussie mixes, rottie mixes, pit mixes, or whatever could do the job--it just depends on the individual dog.

That said, I've also had some bad experiences with Akitas. They can be great, but there are a lot with big heads who can get very pushy if you don't establish clear dominance (and you wouldn't want one feeling dominant to your wife or daughter, of course). Plus, you said you were looking for short-haired dogs.

I've heard good things about Karelian Bear Dogs too, but I thought you said you didn't want a rare, expensive breed.

Bull Mastiffs are supposed to be sweet generally, but can be stubborn, and you have to watch them for dominance issues, too. Dominance can be a problem for any dog of course, but I've heard that they can be especially hard-headed. And have you considered the drool issue?

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And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb.. And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.. They shall not hurt nor destroy In all my holy mountain For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord.

Pitbulls are great, but I AM very prejudiced!
I used to breed them in the '70's, with very good success.
I only had to put one down for temperment.
Pound for pound, the strongest bite in the canine world.
If you are in their pack, you will be defended to the end.
Lots of full blooded dogs available in peoples backyards, no need to go thru a registered breeder. Too darned costly that way.
If you want a dog that won't raise the hackles of your insurance company, look to the Airedales. Bred for bears & lions. Used by Jim Thorpe, the 1930's Olympian, Oorang Airdales.
Lex

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No lotus land ever cast its spell upon a man's heart more than Wyoming had enchanted mine.-The Virginian-Owen Wister-

If you go to the puppy page on my web site you can see that I am the first one to tell you that American Bulldogs need to be socialized and trained. I also think every breed should be socialized and trained. However, after reading Corgitails post I can't help but feel it was a bit harsh. Saying they need "major training", "very good socialization" I think is an over statement. Get them out there to meet people and take them to puppy classes the same as you would any other dog. If you bump into ignorant people that think they are a "dangerous pit bull' you can just tell them they are an American Bulldog. Most of the time people think my dogs are Boxers and that is just because not to many people have seen American Bulldogs before. Sure, "check with your homeowner's insurance" I have never even heard of that being a problem before. Checking won't hurt.
Corgitails says some nice things about the breed that is true of SOME of the dogs of the breed. "They are nice dogs. They are strong, brave, dedicated to their families, very athletic and will go through fire for their owners." The really good American Bulldogs are like that. Not all of them. Getting a bulldog puppy from parents that are like that will increase your chances of getting one that is like that. Saying they are all "pig headed", "stubborn", dogs that "can be awful" and that need to be "massively socialized" I think is also unfair. I know Corgitails is trying to speak in general and trying to help. She also tends to see dogs once they are already a problem and when they REALLY NEED to be trained. Unfortunately some people wait to see a dog trainer until they already have problems -- so they might have been some of the more stubborn bulldogs. My bulldogs are eager to please and have just needed normal socialization. Almost everyone THINKS they have great dogs (and I am no different). That is why I tell people not to believe what a breeder says --- believe what they can prove. Have them show you the temperament tests. Have them show you that the dogs can learn and be trained to do different types of things by showing you the working titles. Everything else is just talk, and talk is cheap. Demand proof.
I just wanted to chime in again because I have some nice bulldogs (I know other do as well) and after reading Corgitails post I would have run for the hills if I didn't already know my dogs. They in general are solid, good family dogs. As I said above speaking in general doesn't always tell the whole story. If you don't want an American Bulldog that is totally fine and it still doesn't change my advice for any other breed. Proven, tested parents of the puppy (with documented proof of tests) is your best chance to get a good dog of any breed. This is a long term relationship and I would suggest that you take the time to find a dog out of a good breeding if you are really trying to get a stable dog to protect your family. You should have this dog longer then your car and maybe your address. Your new baby will be in high school before this dog passes on (with healthy parents of the puppy, some good food and a bit of luck). All puppies are cute, not all are going to be equal in all tasks. Take your time and you can get a really good dog.

Americanbulldog, I don't think Corgitails was out of line. I confess I don't know a thing about your breed but I DO know that most breeders are adamant about a breed they love and tend to gloss over the problems of a breed. I think an outside perspective helps to balance the issue. Personally, in ANY breed I think it is healthy to clearly spell out the potential problems, weaknesses, etc of a breed. One thing we ran into when extensively researching Pyrs is that NO ONE mentioned that there was an element of insanity in some lines. It wasn't until we ended up wiht a problem dog that we found out about that issue through the rescue group. I STILL have not seen it in print anywhere. I would highly recommend talking to rescue groups about any breed you are considering. Even if you don't plan to get the dog from a rescue group, they will be hte first ones that can list the most likely problems with the breed because they see it every day. Hisenthlay has a very good idea as well to go to the shelter or rescue groups. The one thing I would say about those is that it is imperative that you find someone at one of these groups that you trust who can help find a dog that will be a good fit for you, even if that takes a year or so. Don't work with someone just trying to put any dog in your home. A good fit is the key if you want this to work out and not just end up being an additional problem. I've lived with 4 dogs that someone else raised and there definitely are some benefits. I won't say there are not disadvantages but frankly, for a family dog in a home with inexperienced owners, I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Puppies of any breed are a LOT of work and require constant attention and training if you want them to become good citizens. Older dogs may have some habits that need re-training but overall they are so much easier and you can judge the temperament easier. I'd look for something 2-3 years or older optimally. Just my 2 cents

If you are interested in Bear dog, they are not that spendy out this way.

Check out.

http://www.homepage.plix.com/jhein/index.htm

She has some good links, please read up on them before getting one. Not all will protect against bears, and many are not good family dogs. They are still working dogs and need a job to do everyday.
Hers are raised with a family, so they are socialized.

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Shari

Thankyou again for the help.How do you find a good breeder?There seems to be alot of problems with various breeds.americanbulldog,I have read there are different"types"of AB;Performance and Bully,is this correct?Which do you breed and why?bergere,thankyou for the link on the Karelian,I'm not raelly interested in that breed but I thought I would mention them.Many dog breeds work better in a pack,we need a breed that can go it alone.I agree bears arent the biggest problem but if a dog can handle a bear,I would think it could handle any other animal or person.BASIC.

You are welcom Basic.

Finding a good breeder... best bet, get references. Then ask if they make sure the parents had good Hips, temerpament... whatever.
Each breed seems to have its own health problems/risks. See if the breeder has tested their dogs before they bred, and guarantee that the puppies come up Negative for what ever.
That they will stand by their breeding.

Many will not do this. As spendy as dogs are these days, I want to find a breeder that really stands by the quality of their dogs.

For the bear dogs,, read through the links. Think I read that the Bear dog likes to be the only dog. Does not tolerate any other dog in its area. That some of them in Finland, hunt on their own.

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Shari

I breed Standard, Bully and what are a mix of the two types called Hybrids. Each type has its own strengths and both can be good. Try to look at the parents of the puppies and worry less about type. 60 years ago there were no types of American Bulldogs. This is a very new development. People are breeding American Bulldogs for different things. Some for hunting and these dogs need to be able to run long distance in the heat. This dogs need to be fleet of foot and have endurance. They tend to have a lighter frame. Some are being bred for weight pulling. These dogs tend to be thicker, heavier dogs with incredible short distance power. Some breed for protection work. These dogs tend to have a body that is not to extreme one way or the other.
If you go to my web site you can look at Therion and Matriarch they are bully type. White Lightning and Bo are Standard looking. My Dog dog Clint is the best all around dog I have right now, but Bo is coming on strong. Both Bo and Clint are "hybrid" dogs. Here is my website again so you don't need to try and find it www.megaamericanbulldogs.com . It will help you to be able to see the different types of bulldogs. The dogs being tested and proven are more important then what type they are.

I suggest these http://www.beardogs.org/kbds/ or a German Shepard. These dogs are specially bred not to attack bear but yo make sure they realize their boundaries. I would also recomend going to the local SPCA or shelter and adopt, you can find very good dogs there, and generally a rescued dog will seek a tight bond with you and your family and protect your property very well. Breeds aren't always a garuntee.

Basic, what breeds have you and your wife owned in the past? What breeds does your insurence company have on their do not cover list?

SOrry to come across harsh, Americanbulldogs- it's true, most of the ones I see have already got problems- but they also don't seem to be a breed that is particularly easy- somewhere between the difficulty for owners of a German-bred GSD, working line Aussie. Some breeds have truly amazing personality- it's amazing labs don't bite more people, as often as they are purchased, tossed in the backyard, and then expected to be playful but not TOO playful with the kids. American Bulldogs, in my admittedly limited experience, aren't a breed you can do that with- and if you do, the dog is likely to be a handful at best and very, very dangerous at worst. The AmBulls I've met who didn't get the early socialization and at least one training class tend to be much harder to handle- that's standard procedure for dogs who live with me, but a lot of folks don't realize how much of an influence it can be on future behavior and temperament and don't see the need for it- and there really IS one, especially for working breeds like the American Bulldog. Many Ambulls come from RECENT working heritage- 3, 4, 5 generations ago, their ancestors were out working cattle and hunting hogs. That's a very significant difference from say, an AKC bull mastiff who has probably been just a pet for 5 or more generations (that said, I've also had a friend who had a nightmare of a bullmastiff in her family, impulsively bought by her brother from a pet shop.) The higher energy level, the greater amount of drive? Needs direction, period, and owners who are comfortable with the size and strength of the dog- and that is ALL owners- if the wife is uncomfortable or feels like she can't handle the dog, there WILL be problems when the husband's not around to make the dog listen. Dogs are very sensitive to emotion and can tell when you are afraid of them.

One of my favorite client dogs was an American Bulldog locally whose family had gotten him after seeing the one in the new version of "Homeward Bound" (I think that's the name of it). They'd never owned anything but a very sweet and not very bright golden, and Dakota was a LOT of dog for them to handle. Luckily, they got him neutered fairly young, which I think has helped, but he's still killed a number of neighborhood cats that have ventured into his yard. They'd come to me because he was pulling them over on leash and while that was fairly easy to correct, they really did NOT have control over him even on a leash. He's a pretty good dog with stable temperament. But if he was like some of the American Bulldogs I've met, that lack of control could have resulted in someone being very seriously injured, and it probably would have been a kid. I don't know if you remember the case in San Francisco where the lady was mauled to death by two Presa Canarios, but that's sort of the ultimate cautionary example of what can happen with the wrong owners for a big, strong dog. (This is not to say that American Bulldogs are as nutty as those two individuals were and Presas that I've met have would make me not recommend the breed period in general- I just think that caution needs to be taken. I'd really like to hear from Basic's wife about what breeds SHE would feel comfortable with. The American bulldogs can be very intimidating if you aren't comfortable with the bully, mastiffy type breeds

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"Dogs may not be our whole lives, but they make our lives whole." Roger Caras

Corgitails,my wife has had,mixed breeds and GSD,I've had two Vizslas.She would like another GSD.We did have a Vet recommend getting an import,he said they were much better than the US bred dogs with far fewer problems.I like them also but I think the potential health problems and the over breeding,may not make them a good choice.May wife is a very stong,assertive person.
americanbulldog,Bo is a great looking dog.I couldn't find Clints picture though.I like the way the standard/Hybrid dogs look.Can you suggest any books and websites to learn more.I do have more questions for you,would it be better to address through your web-site?
Thankyou all again,BASIC.

American Bulldogs need to see themselves as being a part of the family. I think putting any dog in the back yard and leaving it there is would be wrong. Any breed that was done to could have problems. Dogs are social animals and need to be treated as such.
You can email me through my website and I would be happy to try to help you in any way that I can.
You can find links to web sites at the bottom of each page of my web site that should be helpful.
For books it will be harder. There are not many. The Working American Bulldog By Dave Putnam is one you could order. I don't agree with everything it it but it will give you one persons point of view on the breed.
Clint is listed under his Pedigree name of Make My Day. You should be able to find him there.
Contact me when ever you need help and I can try to help you find a breeder in your area.

americanbulldog,thankyou for your kind offer and thankyou all for your help,BASIC.

I've had several ABs..first one I had I put down due to temperment problems...2nd one was dog aggressive...3rd one was too big and couldn't tolerate the heat..made a great guard dog though. Being that they're expensive people will breed and sell them. They run around $500 to $1k with no guarantees. I would highly not recommend Plotts either..for two reasons: they're hounds and will not stay on the property..they will wander. and being hounds they bark in a unqiue way called baying...sounds like a drawn out bark. LOUD! They dig...not worth it.

I would recommend the Texas Lacy. I used to raise catahoulas and liked their way of working livestock and property guarding but didn't like their dog and people aggressiveness. Alot of catahoulas are fine as puppies but they change drastically when they get past 2 yrs old. So I switched over to the lacy and they've been remarkably easy to housebreak..easy to teach and do not like being yelled at. Only downside is they like to chew quite a bit. You can check out their website at: www.lacydog.com/ They aren't too rough with goats like catahoulas tend to be so they're basically perfect for the homesteading type of person.

Ted

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Ted H

You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas.
-Davy Crockett