Help! Big rat problem in barn

I never had too much spare feed around- all my feed in bags was in my wellhouse so all the rats I ever saw were there. I would mix feed to serve in a galvanized trash can and realized as the level got lower, with lid off, there would be mice or rats trapped in the bottom. So that was our method: take the dog (terrier mix) and drop her into the can every morning for mice, shoot rats in the can (too big for the dog!). Doubt we had over a dozen or two though.

Back in the days before the meth issue got really big, my dad would go to the local feed/fertilizer store and fill an old propane tank with anhydrous ammonia. Then we would shut the barn up, move out any livestock if necessary, crack the valve open, and leave. Since anhydrous ammonia is heavier than air, it flows down into the rat holes and asphyxiates the rats (it's also so noxious, it kills the pidgeons and barn swallows too). Those of you who have ever been around it know that just a little makes it hard to breathe. The best part is that unlike a poison gas, it totally dissipates and leaves behind nothing dangerous to you or livestock. Now, this is where this idea takes a wrong turn.

Ever since meth became a problem, the sale of anhydrous ammonia has been very limited since it's a major component in the manufacturing of meth (at least in MO). Going in with a propane tank and asking for some pretty well guarantees a visit from the sheriff and possibly some surveilance from the DEA,FBI, etc. While it isn't technically illegal to buy the stuff for non-fertilizer use, be prepared to be on someone's watch list. If you're friends with the sheriff, you might be able to get around this, especially if you demonstrate the idea to him, but I wouldn't do it just because of the overall bad attention that it's likely to attract.

So if anyone knows of a heavier than air (non-combustible) chemical that will asphyxiate and then completely dissipate, (without leaving any poisonous residue) then we need to know.

If poisoning pets and livestock is a possibility, then the flour/cement or peanut butter/cement option sounds like a good bet.

There was another post about this awhile back that contained a suggestion of a trap-door-type trap.

The idea was to put a few inches of water in a bucket or large trash can.

Then put a dowel or round stick in end brackets across the top so that it can turn easily.

Attach a light plank to the dowel (drill a hole through the width of the plank or use "U" shaped brackets on the underside of the plank. The plank must balance on the dowel directly in its middle, and not touch either side of the bucket or trash can.

Then put a tasty treat like peanut butter in the center of the board directly over the dowel.

Place a cinder block next to the edge of the bucket so rats can get up on it. When they step on the board to go get the peanut butter, the board pivots on the dowel and they get dropped in the water and drown.

If the above description was hard to visualize, imagine looking down at the face of a clock. Imagine the minute hand pointing to 12 and the hour hand pointing to 6. The hands represent the plank. The 9 to 3 axis represents the dowel. The edges of the clock face represent the rim of the bucket. Notice that the hands don't touch the rim of the clock.

The bigger the gap between the edge of the plank and the edge of the bucket, the less opportunity the rats will have to “test” the plank by only placing one paw on it. Leave a 3 inch gap, and they’ll jump, falling to their doom (insert evil laugh here).

Hope this helps - it's a non-toxic option, anyway.

Wow,some really good ideas were posted!
Here is an update on our situation: Yesterday my husband put all the feed into the metal cans and put bricks on top of the lids. We took the food and water containers for the chickens out of the barn at night (during the day the doors are open and the dog runs in an out so the rats stay in their holes). My husband screwed some "just one bite" poison on 2x4 boards all around the barn. He put out two whole packages of the poison this way. He took quite a long time individually screwing each piece in intervals down the boards. He must have had at least 30 pieces of the poison put out. Well, this morning we went out there and ALL the poison is gone. Every piece. Hopefully they ate it and didn't just chew it all off and take it away to hoard it. It was incredible to see all that poison gone. We will of course repeat this until we are satisfied they are gone.
Yes, we do have a cement slab in the barn, not covering the whole floor though. We know they are under there, the dog goes crazy around the edges. Agmantoo, please let me know your idea about getting them out from under there.
I sure like the anhydrous ammonia idea. I know what you mean about the problem with the sheriff, we have people out here with their meth labs too.
Mary

I absolutely hate the thought of poison. We had a huge rat problem about 5 years ago, and tried everything but poison. My husband would sit out there with his pellet gun and shoot them during the evening when they'd go into the chicken house. We tried big snap traps, but that didn't work after first couple of times, rats are smart.

We bought a live trap, and that worked well. We'd catch one a day or so, and take it out into the middle of the yard and dump it for the dogs to kill. They loved that, but it was tedious setting the trap all the time.

Then I looked into dogs specialized for killing rats. I read up on Jack Russell Terriers, and decided they probably NOT the best solution. They sound like psychotic little buggers! But Rat Terriers had a good reputation, so we decided to visit the Humane society and see if they had any Rat terriers. They did. We played with the dog a little, decided she would do, and adopted her.

Our little Rat Terrier is the BEST dog I've ever had. Intelligent, loving and absolutely OBSESSED with hunting down rodents of every size and description. Since we got her as an adult, she immediately started hunting rats as soon as she got over her spay. Within a year she'd cleaned them ALL out. We never find rat corpses any more. Then she started in on mice and moles. We don't have many of those now either. Her current hobby is trying for rabbits. She actually caught a full grown one the other day! She was so proud. She came trotting through the front yard with it held high, and I made the bigger dogs leave her alone until she ate it at least half of it.

It is so cool to see that little dog springing through the grass and patrolling the woodlines looking for rodents. She is SO athletic. She sometimes springs 2-3 feet straight into the air trying to see over the grass when she's hunting.

Now there is a down side to being small and obsessed with killing rodents. A few years ago she tried to take out a muskrat, and it tore her throat and nicked her jugular. She almost died from that. You should have seen her after she got back from the vet, though. The bigger dogs had dragged the carcass into the yard, and you could just see it in her eyes, "Look at the MONSTER rat I killed!" :haha:

Anyway, having a rat terrier is the BEST way to control rats on a farm. They are excellent little dogs. When this one gets old and slow, we'll have to get another one. They are the best: good company and good ratters.

soapmakermom,
The method to eliminate the rats from using the concrete slab is rather simple but does entail some effort and some minor expense but the method does work and lasts forever. Rats are rather smart but still limited to basic thinking. To prevent the rats from digging under the slab here is the treatment. You must excavate the earth abutting the slab for a depth of 6 to 8 inches and back from the slab for approximately 18 inches. This trench is then to be filled with washed stone (about the size of a golf ball) from the quarry. The rat will attempt to dig under the slab at the slab edge where the stone now exists. Rats cannot dig through the stone as they will collapse even if therat gets one moved. The rat is not smart enough to back up to the soil where the stone starts. I had a commercial hog operation and it took me a long time and a lot of research to figure out this technique. This technique completely corrected my problem and it never resurfaced. I know it works because I tried it and saw for myself.

Hmmm, reminds me of the time last year when the local feed mill caught on fire. Talk about rats!!!! I heard that they would run from the fire, see the firemen, and run back towards the fire. The smell of roasted rat was evident for some days afterward!!

I know I have rats as when I dumped the horses water bucket to put in fresh, there were 4 rats in the bottom that had drowned. I know I have a rat problem in the chicken coop and need to turn my attention there.

Good luck everybody!!

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Michael W. Smith in North-West Pennsylvania

"Everything happens for a reason."

I don't think that you can get rid of rats without using poison. Cats,dogs or snakes Might control them, but if you have more than a few, you need to bring the pets in & Poison those varmits. If you have domestic animals it makes it harder. I'm not at all fond of the idea of poison, but it does work.

__________________
Freedom isn't Free

I would be afraid of going the Rat Terrier or Jack Russell route. A dog with that strong of a prey drive will most likely go after the chickens as well, and perhaps other livestock.

We have used the coca cola method with great success. We have also
done the water or grain in the bottom of a barrel or metal garbage can. It
works just like was mentioned.

Christina
athome in South Dakota

LOL scientifically it has been proven that hunting behavior in cats is not directly related to food/diet/hunger. In other words if this was a cat who killed rats she/he would be doing it for sport whether or not she was fed.

Suprisingly, many cats - even cats who are excellent mousers will not touch a rat. Apparently, from what I have read hunting rat is a whole different bag of worms as rats are so very much larger and often FIGHT BACK with pretty nasty teeth too!. It takes a special technique and an extra special cat to be a rat hunter.

I am with the poster who recommended a rat terrier, Jack Russell terrier or also a Cairn Terrior as a potentially great ratter. Seems I read someplace (Guinnes book of world records, I think), that the champion ratter in the world (England?) was some kind of terrior who brought in some UNGODLY amount of rats (like 600+) in a 24 hour period to win the record. Seems the terrior was in one of those ancient cathedrals they have over there.

Holy smoke (no pun intended), I wouldn't be caught dead going to church in a place with over 600 rats in it.

Anyway, I vote for animal control rather than the use of poison. MHO.

donsgal

Well, another night of putting out a lot of poison, and it's all gone again today. I guess we will just keep putting it out until it's not taken anymore. We also set up a trap where they fall into the barrel of water, but they are not going up there.
Mary

I believe I read that you are using the Just one bite poison. Certainly the name is a misnomer. I have fed the product to the point that the rat excrement was the color of the poison and I still had rats. You absolutely must eliminiate the source of the food and the source of the dens to get relief.

We had rats under a feed shed that sat on concrete slab. The rats that had tunneled under it were trap shy and wouldn't touch poison. After fighting them for several months I plugged up all of the holes put boards down all around the slab weighted them down with concrfete blocks covering up every rat hole but one. I then ran a garden hose down the open one covered it up with small mesh wire put a block on it and turned the water on. An amazing amount of water went down that hole, before it backed up and started running back out the hole where the hose was. I turned the water off and unhooked the hose at the hydrant but left it untill next morning, when I moved the block and wire and took the hose out there was a drown rat floating in the hole. It took several weeks for it to dry out and the stink ot go away, but it got rid of the rats. I keep a close watch and at the first sign of rat activity I put out the one bite bars and haven't had any more problems.

I like the idea about running a hose in the hole - we had thought of that, but discounted it because the rats may run (we can't find ALL the exit holes) and then they may go to the house. We want to be sure to kill them all. We have used up all our 'just one bite' poison, so I'm going to buy some different kind tomorrow. They are still eating it all. We are starting to smell dead rat, and some tunnels are not being used anymore (my husband put dirt in the holes to watch their activity).
Agmantoo, what do you mean eliminate the source of the dens? I'm pretty sure we have eliminated their source of food, other than poison!
Mary

Since you are starting to smell some dead rats the others will leave for now but they will be back. You need to put the washed stone around the complete perimeter of the slab floor in the barn to prevent the rats from making dens there forever. No food , no home, no rats!

I havnt read the replies yet, so forgive me if Iam repeating- I have two easy ideas.

!. Get a guinea pig, rats hate the sound, although it wont kill them, it will just drive them away.

2. dangle a tasty morsel over a buchet half filled with water, they will fall in trying to reach it, and they will drown.
Or if the bucket is really deep, dont so the water and just drop in an ether soaked rag once you've caught some and cover bucket. Thats an easier death than drowing.

__________________
Its a gift to simple, its a gift to be free

Well, it's been 4 nights now since we began the major assault, and each night they eat all the poison. We must have a lot of rats! Anyway, it is smelling like death in there and my husband saw blood trails today. He has been looking at the scat, too, but it has not changed color, so the rats that are eating the poison are dying. I'm going to buy another kind of poison today, just in case there are some that are resistant to the just one bite.
Mary

Got some D-con on Friday night and put out 3 boxes. Next morning, all was eaten out of 2 of them. I forgot to put any out Saturday night or lastnight, so will restart tonight.

Good luck everyone on rat patrol!

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Michael W. Smith in North-West Pennsylvania

"Everything happens for a reason."

Our rat terrier seems to only be obsessed with rodents. Preferably rats, but any sort of rodent will do. Our chickens free range, and she's never bothered them, not even when we butcher one.

I WISH she'd chase the fox that took one of our hens last week. This weekend the chickens up up an alarm scare, and there was a fox in the woodline checking them out (we'd just brush hogged all his hiding places the day before.) I took the dogs down there and showed them the spot where he was and our rat terrier sniffed the spot excitedly, but she didn't take off trailing him or anything. She just bounced around me, and worried about the gun my husband had- she's terribly gun shy. Wouldn't chase after the fox scent at all.

I guess I need a fox hound now!

Edit: She's only about 25 lbs. Just a little thing. I doubt if she COULD hurt larger livestock. She did bark at our horses the first time she saw them, but one scolding and she left them alone.