Heartworm in dog

As a preventative, I give my dog black walnut hull tincture once a month. He has not tested positive for heartworms, or other worms. This area has a high rate of HW infection, but I don't know if we have superbad mosquitos, or more owners who don't give prevention.

Although I give my dog the preventative, I still have him checked once a year (he's due now) because I just feel it would not be responsible to not take that simple precaution.

Does anyone know any bad effects of black walnut hull tincture? I know some protocols also use other parasitics, but I'm leery of pumping too much poison into my buddy.

I just think that people become too sentimental over animals. And this comes from a woman who is still grieving the loss of our beloved Sunshine last fall. With animals, I fill that one as the temper sentiment with sensibility. SHould a person put their human family in jeopardy to spend money they can afford on an animal? I don't think so. And I don't think that "I can't afford it is always a cop out". I have done without in order to feed and medicate my animals before. But I didn't go without the essentials. I could never justify using up all of my resources on an animal and putting myself and my children at risk. I have children. And if they were to need cancer treatment or a transplant, etc. and I didn't have insurance, I could not afford their treatment. Does that mean that I should not have had children because they could possibly need expensive medical treatment in the future and I may not have insurance at that time. Evenif I couldn't pay the bill, the hospital, government programs, charities, etc, have programs in place to assist me in saving a human life. There isn't anything in place like that for animals because their life just doesn't have the same value as a human life. If a dog reaches his full potential, what would it be. He'll eat dead things, lick his butt, and hold fleas. Yes, he'll give us companionship, but it still a dog. God says love your neighbor as yourself, not your dog. Personally, I think it is literally sinful to spend so much on an animal when there are people, hard working, Godfearing, peolpe who are struggling to make ends meet through not fault of their own. I'm sure if we went to through our own family, we could easily find someone who could use (not just want) more money. I think that a person has an obligation to do the best that they can for an animal and cause it no harm. If they can't afford expensive treatments, give the pet away or put it down, don't let it suffer. Tiff obviously isn't going to let her animal suffer. The dog is not at risk of dropping dead tomorrow. I think it is prudent to seek out options.

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Sometimes the last minute is the best one.

A teacher once said that a golden rule of nursing was "never assume". That came in right next to "Do no harm".

In other words, if you suspect something, CHECK IT OUT!

Tiffany was ignorant and uncertain, and folks just ASSUMED that she was uncertain because she wanted to avoid being responsible for her dog. But, many people just blasted her WITHOUT asking checking to se eif she wanted to be responsible.

Tiffany did not strike me as a person who was trying to evade her responsibility, she struck me as somebody who was trying to figure out HOW BEST to fullfill it!
And, people ASSUMED THAT SHE KNEW what was available, had thought about asking the vet about payments, or of changing vets to someone who WOULD accept payments. People ASSUMED that she did not take it seriously when the vet advized her that the dog could be killed or severely injured by the conventional treatment.

Ravenlost, I am NOT trying to pick on you here! I mentioned those because you had EXCELLENT suggestions, but Tiffany will never see them because she left before people thought to post them!

The vet HAD painted a VERY bleak picture of the dogs chances, so she was not so sure she should put the dog through what sounded like agony just to see it die by inches. I am old enough to know that the vet was trying to tell her there were no guarentees, but apparently Tiffany is not.

The vet told her many dogs die from what she would do to treat, she apparently never said that the vast majority of dogs do fine. A VERY! badly worded message!

Yes, Tiffanys budget is tight. Fine. A lot of people have tight budgets. People with tight budgets manage by being carefull with their money, and whenever possible to go with the sure thing instead of a gamble.

But, with her puppy I think there IS no sure thing.

In short, the ONLY thing wrong with this thread is that there were too many unfounded assumptions made, and somebody got hurt because how could we think so badly of her when she was the one trying to clean up the mess that somebody else started? She aknowledges that she was not without fault, but this dog was infected on somebody elses watch and she IS the one trying to fix things.

NOBODY here has never made a mistake, and she is simply trying to fix her mistake, AND the shelters mistake, AND the previous owners mistake.

She is the ONLY one taking responsibility for this mess.



SOAP OVER!

I know vets and hospitals have to have their expenses paid and so forth and insurance on animals is usually on a refund to the client basis, however, many hospitals will not work out payment plans. This is the difficulty I am having....I am saving up for my dog's treatment (it should only be a couple of weeks), but 800.00 is a lot of money for me to hop on on the spur of the moment. Credit is also not an option if you are maxed out already....which I plan to pay that off in a month.

I wish that the hospitals were more willing to make arrangements...if they really cared about the animals, they would do the best they can; they want their money first, bottom line. I know I have made good for years with my vet's clinic and they still won't work a plan with you...that is why I am taking my dog somewhere else.

To me, being a homesteader today is based more on being self reliant than most other characteristics. We cherish the fact that we can provide for ourselves most of the time with some occasional help/information from others. If there is a short coming on this site it is the posters that want others to be dependent on the "system" that most homesteaders are attempting to shun. I read too often IMO, that one should get an electrician, hire a water well man, call the vet, pay a professional. I see posted lots of good responses that will and do solve the day to day problems that surface that people feel uncertain in tackling. Mostly, these folks just need encouragment or pointed in the right direction. Tiff was given some good advice but it was clouded with confusion by people wanting to critize or will their wishes onto her rather than encouraging her to use the resources she had at hand. We all are individuals with a common interest, we share info, whether a person wants to adhere to the information given is up to the individual. We should not be critical of the decision derived but recognize the help was offered and be satisfied.

Goldenmom,

I've used Ivormec before and personally don't quite believe in it's use for dogs. I use it on cows and other livestock, but if I can avoid it I will. I've used alot of the herbal methods that a few people have spoken of including the black walnut and found it to be very effective. In my opinion Ivormec does work for dogs, but unless you know the pathology of heartworms you do take a gamble at it with a positive dog, but you also do with standardized treatment as well. I think it's rather ridiculous to use a preventetive for a positive dog, it's better to cleanse the system free it of the infestation and then proceed with preventetive. I worked with an old school vet, so many my opinion is slightly swayed but what works for people is what they will go with I guess.

I was not informed about Proheart until it was mentioned in this thread, I've been away from the clinic atmosphere for 2 years, and on occasion I fill in up there so all my knowledge on meds is not up to date. I've done my research on it now and agree with it being taken off, but we never had any complications with any animals we treated with it, all mine were given in it and all were and are still fine.

I know money is a big issues within the group that chats here, I know it is for me. We live in one of the poorest counties in VA, so our vet bills are alot better then some others. I saw one say their bill for HW's was going to be $800.00, mine was only $100.00, so it changes over areas. But I think that before proceeding with any kind of chemical treatment the dog should at least be given a thorough once over by the vet. Ivormectin is very very strong, and even the slightest incriment over recomended dose can be lethal depending on the animal and the infestation.

But what you do is what you do, and what I do is what I do. I did not see all the warning signs about using these products if uneducated in the disease, so I felt the warning signs should be posted. Most of the info I saw was thorough and concise and I may of missed alot trying to stay out of the conflict with certain people jumping Tiffany's case. So I apologize if I an repeating any advice.

My vet told me that the shot had been taken off the market for safety reasons. I was interested in getting it for my Pyrs as opposed to having to go to the pasture to hunt them down to give them their monthly treatment. My vet liked the shot and was dissapointed when it was pulled from the market.

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QueenB04-

I don't disagree with anything you have posted, except the part about preventive being given to positive dogs. And I'm not sure if you meant that it was unnecessary or felt it would harm the dog. My reasoning for giving preventive to a positive dog is that the dog would then be much less infective to other dogs in the neighborhood. The preventive will also keep the dog from another heartworm infection on top of the one it already has. Obviously getting rid of the heartworms in the first place is best (by what ever method you choose), but I do realize that it is not feasible in some cases. I can not post intelligently on the Black Walnut or other herbal treatments as I have no experience with any of them, so I can't say anything one or another about them. As for the Ivomec-I tried to stress the importance of VERY CAREFUL dosing. With careful dosing there is no reason why Ivomec will cause any more problems than Heartgard since they have the same active ingredient. I refuse to go to war over whether or not certain chemicals are safe-I won't change your mind and you won't change mine, so I say to each his own! And as for the Proheart-I personally have no experience with the product, we had decided not to use it until it had been on the market for several years to make sure it was safe. And I'm quite sure, like with every drug, you only hear about the negatives, not the thousands of animals that did just fine on the product! You mentioned that before treating a heartworm positive dog with anything, a thorough vet check was in order. I absolutely agree, my posts here mostly were in regards to Tiff who's dog had obviously just been to the vet, examined and the like. Man I wish we could charge $100 for treatment! I doubt if I could treat my OWN animal for that amount (I pay cost + 10% at the clinic).

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Sarah,

If there are no dogs Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers

I understand that clinics cost money to run and the sophisticated medicines cost money....I wish that the clinics would exept the insurcane though....I have insurance and I have to make the claim to be reimbursed....I wonder why they cannot accept the insurance from the company itself so we can pay the deductable, etc.? Then they can get their money from the insurance company like the hospitals do.

That would be handy, wouldn't it? At this point though, the companies that offer insurance don't give that as an option. I imagine a big part of that is the tons of extra paper work it would require by the individual clinics. It's a lot of paperwork for the owners right now, imagine the amount of work if you had 10-20 times that much paperwork to take care of each day. It would probably take a whole extra employee if very many people started to purchase the insurance. Do lots of people in your area have insurance? It's extremely few and far between where I am.

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Sarah,

If there are no dogs Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers

HI, I purchased a female presa canario from a reputable kennel about 4 months ago, when I took her to the vet for a small vaginal infection, I insisted they do and x-ray to make sure it was not in her uterus as she is a breeder. Good news......it was not, but what they found was her heart is completely filled with heartworms ! I paid $1100 for this dog plus $600 to ship her to me........I was told she was healthy when I purchased her......GUESS NOT ! I am trying to get the person who sold her to me to help cover the cost to treat her sense it is medically proven she was infected long before I got her , kind of like beating my head against a brick wall so far. We love our dogs very much and always keep them well vetted, however we are stuggling a little financially right now because my son needs braces $5000 out of pocket ! We have eight other dogs......only one other dog is for breeding and that is our male, the rest are just pets that we love, but now they need to be put on preventative which will cost me over $200 for the rest of the summer. So I am wondering if it would be okay to use the cattle wormer or horse wormer on them to help prevent the spread of the heartworms? Also what is the doseage, how do you give it...........and why is the stuff for horses so much cheaper than the stuff for cattle? Please help and feel free to email me directly as I can use all the help I can get! Thanks anyone and everyone you can email me directly at sheila56215@yahoo.com if you would like

I do understand that people have different views on how animals should be treated and everyone has a limit on what they can afford to spend on their animals. Tiff, I hope you can sort through all these posts as there has been some good advice given to you. I also hope the best for your dog.

I don't want to throw another log into this fire, but I have to ask....Has the other dog been tested for HW too?

Good luck in the treatment you choose.

Good grief. My ex gave me the same bone headed advice about the ivermectin. I just had my large(65 pound) dog treated for heart worms. Due to the ex by the way(I had gone down 6 months prior and taken her to a vet for rabies shots, he hadn't taken her in years). Long story..I'll make it short. Sis-in-law called and said ex was leaving Katie by herself for a week at a time. This dog won't go up to anybody but me and him so I knew I'd have to do something. Did a turn around trip down to Texas to get her. Called ex on the way back to Missouri and informed him I was working for a vet at the time. We have hook worms real bad here and there is a heartworm preventative that will treat them. I had a feeling she might have heartworms since they are really common in Texas. Yep she did. Called up the ex and told him he was gonna split the cost. That's when he told me about the ivermectin and I told him I now remember why he is my 'ex'. With my 'employee' discount it cost me $330. The vet I worked for wasn't cheap. I'd say you can figure adding about $150 to that figure. If it is a smaller dog then it would be less. You can kill your dog giving it the ivermectin treatment. If you can't afford to have a vet treat the dog then I'd personnally make it as comfortable as possible for as long as it lives. Get a quote from your vet....that is pretty much normal proceedure and they won't mind giving you one. I was fortunate that I had the money at the time. I won't pretend that I didn't think twice about it. From an economic point of view that was a lot to spend on a 7 yr old mutt.

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My goal in life is to someday be half as great as my dog thinks I am!!