PA is Starting an Animal Identification System.. ?? Big Brother ??

When Newcastle comes through here,they kill all the birds.Why is a chip required? Seems they are pretty good at eradicating it,at least they have in the past here.Didnt take a chip then,doesnt take one now AFAIK to kill a bunch of birds.

EDIT- I didnt turn in my canary and finch either,and low and behold they got through it just fine.And the government still killed every flock in the area they could get their hands on,whats left for my birds to infect???? They went for the likely suspects,nailed em,end of story.

Im dead set against it,too easy to abuse and change the rules midstream once its implemented.

Guees Im paranoid too ,but the chip really wigs me out.

BooBoo

Oh really, and what diseases are you referring to? This is nothing but control. When Ridge was Chief of Homeland Security, he stated he wanted every animal marked. Don't give them the information. I'm not.

I have to agree with Mysticokra...our local county is like that: some builders get breaks with their building permits, some don't...my guess it that $$$ has something to do with it, and I doubt the $$$ goes into the county coffers!

I bet the next outbreak of something bad gets blamed on those radical noncomformist homesteaders...you know, those paramilitary organic noncomformist nuts that live in the woods like wild animals? And - horrors - raise their own meat without goverment regulation and control?!!!

I am constantly horrified by how differently agribusiness gets treated from small growers - and I just asked two family members if they remembered EVER hearing of someone dying of food poisoning from a local grower, the anwer was "No"....oops, I actually know of one case: a family killed themselves and some neighbors by processing hogshead cheese in a tin tub...back in the 1930s...although a family member of mine wondered if maybe it was simply ptomaine or botulism instead...but on the other hand I have NEVER heard of someone dying of fresh slaughtered meat, or eggs, or milk, or vegetables...it's always been agribusiness processors...

I wonder how frightened the government/agribusiness is of us? Are the articles like the one in Mother Earth recently that refers to the poor nutrition of agribusiness vegetables hitting home?

Are they setting the stage to protect agribusiness when the price of gasoline goes so high that local produce/meat/eggs/milk are competitive with produce/meat/eggs/milk shipped for a thousand miles? Are they setting the stage so that people who don't comply with "The Rules" can't even raise their own food.... so noncompliance = no food

How will they document our vegetables?

Does this documentation already include fish, frogs, shrimp, crayfish?

In another forum I suggested someone could focus on raising quiet livestock, like rabbits and Muscovy ducks - How are Alpacas for eating? and there's always deer and fish...

and I got guineas....BUCKWHEAT! BUCKWHEAT! No secrets here (hear?)! I'm bummed!

Added: The old saying: "the cure is worse than the disease"...we need to make sure the goverment doesn't do more harm than the terrorists while "protecting" us from terrorism. And when has a government ever voluntarily given up control over something?

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I'd rather be a truthful loser than a lying "winner".

You bet I'm aware of the plans for animal id and the steps being taken to protect "our" food supplies. You'd be surprised how much I know

And it isn't just about protecting you...it is about protecting me, my neighbors, your neighbors. I'm all for going in your backyard to eat what you want, when you want - but if your animals get a disease that can impact others, you shouldn't be allowed to expose the disease to others. I shouldn't either!

If you don't want to comply, your business. But, when paranoia about big brother, government, corporations blind folks into making poor decisions which can ultimately impact "the greater good" - then I have a problem with it.

Nothing but paranoia and bunk...

the same people who complain about the government are the same farmers - big and small - who certainly don't mind taken payments for land not in use or for subsidy payments. Those folks don't mind getting a nice check from the government.

I hate to add fuel to the fire, but I do have a question.
I am within 30 miles to 3 large slaughterhouses, chicken, beef and pork. They supply both grocery store chains and fast food chains. Both the chicken and beef places have been shut done NUMEROUS times for sending out bad meat. They have recalled thousands of pounds of processed garbage. They smell horribly.
The big, commercial, profitable companies have many health issues and aren't the greatest when it comes to the welfare of the animals. The local butchers make less money, take in locally raised animals, butcher them at less cost, less smell, and have no issues with health and welfare.
So where should the government be looking? How about getting more inspectors and getting the big companies to do things be the book? Who will notice a sick animal quickly? Certainly not someone making minimum wage and having to get X amount of animals through in a day.
There is less chance of disease with a small farmer. Granted, nothing is 100%, but I'll take my chances using local unregistered meat and produce.

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B
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Change a couple of words around here and you'll sound just like Sarah Brady. (Don't mean this as a personal attack, just making a point.)

BEST case scenario, it sounds an awful lot like you'd also be in favor of banning smoking, even in private buildings, like several big cities have done.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin Baby!

Sorry Barons Mom - but I've been following this animal id for a long time and fail to see how id'ing my rooster is going to save my nearest chicken farming neighbor thirty miles away.

Hasn't anyone noticed that the more freedom we give up voluntarily, the more the government wants???? This is not about disease, as such, but more of a tracking system of who raises what. Around here, if you own a horse, you are taxed for it, you own more than six hens, you are taxed for each one, and don't even think of owning a family milk cow, you wouldn't be able to afford the tax as she is considered an income producing animal and is taxed at a higher rate....

Why do people so willingly just give up any freedoms they have left and then whine once that freedom is gone...

I don't have anything but horses, two pet geese, and six chickens and four ducks. Each horse is vaccinated against literally every type of disease known to have a vaccine except Potomac Horse Fever which is not found here. I have the papers to prove the animals are vaccinated, what more should I have to do? But just watch, as soon as your livestock is chipped, bet the tax man will be paying you a visit too..

Your livestock may end up like ours, taxed right off the farm...who wants to pay more in taxes than the goat/rabbit/chicken is worth??? So you sell the animals off and viola! another small meat producing farm is gone...

If you think that isn't the way it happens, think again. We had to fill out a survey listing all the animals we had, within six weeks of turning that survey in, the tax man showed up, informing me that my "livestock" would now be subject to tax...and I had to pay it or get rid of the livestock.

so the cows were sold, the goats were sold, the rabbits were killed, same with the chickens. I couldn't afford to pay all the taxes on them and make any type of profit at my small scale.

how would you like to pay tax on a hundred chickens, fifty goats or ten cows?

Guess some must have more money than I do though and will see this is as a way for the government to provide more protection for livestock I can no longer own. I don't need the government protecting me anymore than it already does...and I think the government does a pretty lousy job at it anyway. Just look at the mandatory "stable licenses and boarding inspections" we have here in GA. There must be at least a thousand private boarding stables and only one inspector for my whole area..need I say more? You might see that guy once a year if that...unless someone files a complaint, but the fees are still in force by the government. Complaints may take months to process, but just forget to pay that stable license fee..they'll be on your doorstep so fast your head will spin.
It's all about the money folks, the government really could care less about much else unless it impacts the folks who contribute to the PACs. (like Tyson, Perdue,..)by the way, my horses are tattooed or branded, so why should the government need another identifier (not to mention they have registration papers as well)...

And on another note, once the animals are mandatorily identified, are you going to stand in line for your chip? How will I know that you don't carry some dread disease which "might' impact me? Better get that chip now so the government can track your whereabouts

Sidepasser

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Be yourself - no one can tell you that you're doing it wrong!

Whnever I have to fill out stupid government paperwork I pay myself so it's tax deductiable. I use a flat rate of 100$ per hour and i was told thats not out of line.

mikell

When the government starts labeling meat with the country of origin, tells me which foods are genetically engineered and allows producers to label for BGH Free and the like, I will believe that they are trying to protect our food supply. The big agribusinesses make the rules. Most of our food chain is crap. The government has ruined organic food and put small producers out of the loop. They couldn't find terrorists that were in this country for several years. they were right under their nose and look what happened. Registering your animals will only hurt the little guy.

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Cindy in PA

I'd be interested to know if anyone who has responded on this thread - other than myself - has ever had to deal with serious disease issues on your small farms - or hobby farms, whatever the case may be? I'm not talking larger commercial operations - just family farms.

Was the disease something that could've been spread to others just from incidential contact like shoes or tires?

Would you want to know your neighbor had a serious disease so you wouldn't stop by some day, drive down the lane in your car - contaminate your vehicle and drive home? (this is one way some serious animal diseases can be spread). (Fortunately our neighbor told us - so you can take precautions)

Have you gone to a sale barn to learn someone was trying to sell diseased animals?

Or had a neighbor lose their entire herd to a disease that could impact your animals?

Have you had your kids take a pig to the fair only to learn another family who had a diseased herd brought their pigs to the fair?

Just curious - I've been there and done all that...so I may have a different perspective then most folks.

My goodness! Cannot have people making their OWN decisions with all the consequences attached (like if you cause your neigbor's herd to die off YOU get sued). Nope. Gotta run to big brother to "protect" us huh?

Just one more step to TOTAL govt. control of everything--our food, etc.

Oh yeah, please do tell how the horse program is gonna save us too--cannot go 60 miles away without permission, gotta get the national horse ID--yep, I feel so safe knowing all horses will be chipped.

Goodness, where do you live that it is so laden with disease?

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I know that my livestock are not immune from disease. I'm just saying - what are the chances of them being infected? I don't show them or take them to fairs - they do not move off my property unless they are to be processed for meat or taken to the sale barn. At the sale barn I may buy some chickens but again, there aren't any big chicken meat or egg farms right around us. But you can rest assured that if I hear of some disease going around I WON'T be buying any animals from the sale barn.

My animals are used for meat, eggs, and milk. I do sell some of the extra I get.

As for your quote about "mapping" flocks/livestock, in the literature I got from Pennsylvania, it said ALL animals will have to be tagged and they were still working out the details about what exactly they would do with the Lamancha goats who have no ears (so you can't use ear tags) or some of the other smaller animals. Now perhaps they would only "map" a small farmer who is raising 100 meat chickens as long as ALL of them go at the same time to be processed.

So for the person who raises 10 egg laying chickens all for family use - why must these chickens be tagged? What about the person who has 1 or 2 pet ducks or geese? And who is going to tag all the wild ducks and geese swimming around their pond? What about the person who has 1 goat for milking or the person who raises 1 beef cow each year for meat?

Our "safety" is NOT the issue.

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Michael W. Smith in North-West Pennsylvania

"Everything happens for a reason."

Goodness I've shown horses for a long time, never had a problem with my herd, I go to sales and buy stock occassionally, those guys go into quarantine (feed them last, seperate buckets, etc.)

I take precautions when purchasing livestock no matter where it comes from as well as taking precautions when moving my stock around. I've never had any type of contagious disease on my farm or within my herd in the 35 years we've had livestock.

I keep vaccinations up to date on everything (even my chickens were vaccinated prior to shipment by the hatchery. We keep sanitary conditions, removal of manure and waste, wash feed buckets after every feeding due to possible fly contamination (that is six buckets morning and night for just the horses), and do whatever we can to minimize risk.

However - that being said, how many people vaccinated for WNV their pregnant mares and breeding stallions, only to find dead, deformed, and sterile stock later? This was a "rush" to the market of vaccine which was not proven safe in pregnant mares and later the mfg. had to add that statement to the vaccine. Unbeknownst to many breeders who lost all their foals and profit for the year and were left with some mares that would not cycle and stallions that were sterile...some breeders were marginal at best and the loss of a foal completely wiped out their profit for the year. This was documented by our government in 2001, 2002..however the government was so wilfully bent on protecting us and our stock, they would not listen to breeders until pictures were actually posted on the internet of deformed and dead foals. And only after two years, did anything get done.

Just because the government says so, don't make it so...

what if I said because my horse might get infected that everyone should have to use this vaccine??? and your horse died because of it...does that make it right?

That is what individual freedom is about, making our own choices regarding our own lives. As long as I follow the rules regarding vaccines and appropriate paperwork to prove that I have done so...there is no reason to "track" my animals.

Of course nowdays we have so little individual freedom left that we barely recognize it as such. And some of us would like to retain what little bit of freedom to choose that we do have left so we can tell our grandchildren about it as by the time they are grown, there is really likely not to be any freedom of choice left. Course they won't miss what they never had...

Sidepasser

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Be yourself - no one can tell you that you're doing it wrong!

All it takes is for one person with a diseased flock or diseased animal to drive into your farmyard, and expose your animals...

That's why it makes a difference - incidental exposure.

And it does happen - and then, you'll know why it is important that disease containment is essential. Why should people who "hobby farm" be exempt from being responsible? You all know there are plenty of people who move out to rural areas who don't have a clue about disease management.

And as for where I live...in a farming region...where there are sale barns, county fairs - state fairs, progress shows, feed stores, vet clinics. If you are exposed to livestock...you are "potentially exposed" - you don't know where other people got their animals or how they care for them...

Hopefully, this discussion will at least help folks think about disease contol on their own farms and to be responsible neighbors.

Right on!!! My thoughts exactly!

In my town they went door to door "counting horses" but what they really did was see who had unregistered dogs. This was evident when the little post card came in the mail, saying that we had so many days to get our dog registered. Of course not without a price. Nobody better try to get near my horses!

Kelly

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Kelly S.
Yes Glenn, We Surround Them!

"People don't stop killers…people with guns do." -GOA

I'll keep my freedom, my guns, my religion and my money. YOU keep the change!

Yep,taxation is the number one goal,in case you still dont get it BARONS MOM.
Care to address that issue?
Care to tell me Im wrong?
Care to tell you DONT beleve that????
If so,I think you are completely missing the boat.
But you have posted very pro government before,so I think you will believe anything they pretty much tell you.I would look deeper into the issue,instead of the surface cover story 'propaganda' the gov. continually puts out,esp. the scare tactic of TERRORISM.And SAFETY,which we KNOW is lacking bigtime re:Tyson et al.
Bunch of bunk.

Sorry this sounds harsh,please read it unemotionally so it doesnt sound like an attack,which isnt what Im trying to do,just discuss the issues we find offensive with accepting beaurocratic nonsense.

And Im sorry your animals got sick.Guess what,a chip will not prevent disease or stop animal movements by unscrupulous breeders either.Or stop a duck from flying into your yard.Or stop a deer,or wild pig or rabbit or mouse,or dropped carrion from a raptor.Or stop the wind from blowing.

BooBoo

YOU WILL NOT EVEN BE ALLOWED TO EAT WITHOUT A TITHE TO THE BEAST OR ITS CORPORATE MINIONS,BE IT TYSON,CON AGRA,OR MONSANTO

Can you possibly see that Barons Mom? At All?

I do.

BooBoo

Once again, we come to a common problem.....the lack of common sense! We have many animal auctions in the area. Do people with common sense go and buy animals on their first visit? NO, they check things out, talk to the "old timers", ask questions. When I buy from the auctions, it is only from sellers that I know to have a good reputation. I also only try to buy day old poultry. If I sell anything, it has the vaccinations necessary, and the buyers know that. I use common sense when I come home, changing clothes and shoes. When we show the calf, the calf has been innoculated and we do whatever is possible to keep him safe. COMMON SENSE!
And, just because every animal is to be tagged does not mean that there will be less outbreaks of anything. I would think the opposite, since people would be lulled into thinking that they were safe. The tagging would only provide the government with the info of who started the outbreak. We would get this info after, let's see......after it was too late to do anything about it.
Agreed, there will always be people that don't take care of their animals correctly. But they will be around no matter what. In fact, they won't be the ones registering their animals. I think the government would be able to spend the money better by offering more info on diseases and vaccinations and making it easier to find by a small family farm. That would go a long way with much better results.

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B
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