Social Security Reform

I will repeat that is NOT what comes from the whitehouse document above.
again,

The MAJORITY of Americans at the time LOVED FDR. You are showing your
class bias when you say he had a "devious black soul". Social security is not
socialism or welfare...you pay for it with your taxes. Look, it was started because old people were starving and in the streets. Not everyone's plans work
out! Social security is one of the few protections against utter poverty that
workers have (particularly, now since many of the corporate 401k's are getting cutback due to pilfering).
The reason everyone has the misguided notion that SS "won't be around when I
retire" is due to the lobbyists that are once again creating the message, and leading us sheep around. (Also, talk radio is part of this corporate structure that
gets workers to cut their own throats by voting against their own class interests...btw how do all you yahoos in "homesteading today" that voted for
Bush like it that he has proposed to slash Ag subsidies ;-)
I beseech you all to actually become educated on this issue (not just passively
sit back and wait for the "corporate line" to come to you). AARP had a good
article about it on their website, and in their paper. Check it out, before we all
get screwed again.
James in Houston

Err, yes it is, it 'takes from those who have, and gives to those who needs' ... might be communism.

Not to say its a bad thing.

Its sort of a welfare-retirement plan cross.

First the nuclear questions to get them out of the way.

We don't have 10,000 nuclear weapons. We have around 9600 in the "enduring stockpile" and not all of those are deployed. Many are sitting in storage waiting to be dismantled and others are just in long term storage. That overall number grows less every day. Eventually that number will drop to probably below 2000. Having the force at that low of a level actually actually might pose some difficulties that I won't go into here.


No.

I'm not sure which nuclear submarines you are referring to. Our Ballistic missile submarines, the Ohio Class fleet ballistic missile submarines, are no longer being built. They are paid for. We haven't built one since the mid 90s.

Cutting the military just isn't an option at the moment what with WWIII on and all.




I'm for people taking care of their own retirement. The federal government should have never got into this in the first place. It is not their job! I'm against handouts to anyone.

Then by all means go right ahead just don't pick my pocket at gunpoint to do so.


Class bias? If a taxpayer that is getting hosed is class bias then I guess I am.

He did.

Kinda like how a wife that gets slapped around all the time loves her husband. Just because he was loved by a gullible nation doesn't mean he was a good president. He was anything but. He did nearly irreparable damage to this nation.

Old people weren't starving or on the streets. Not in any great numbers.

People were on the streets because of the depression which FDR, contrary to popular belief, did little to solve. What he did do was often found unconstitutional and what he did manage to get passed into law has damaged this country immeasurably.


SS is indeed welfare. It is wealth redistribution. It is taking money from my pocket at gunpoint and giving it to someone else. It is a tax that gets used for welfare. SS is just that...welfare. It is not a retirement plan or a trust fund. If a 401K or retirement plan was operated like the federal government's ponzi scheme is the people involved would be put in prison.


People wouldn't be in poverty if they didn't have to surrender their payroll taxes to the government. They could invest it in very safe investments and would have a much bigger check coming at 65 than they do with SS. Plus they could pass that on to their kids when they died because it is theirs. Some protection. The mafia and bullies often have similar protecction schemes.

The sheep were the poor vulnerable folks FDR duped and turned into a whining bunch of caterwauling freeloaders banging their tin cups on the pavement demanding handouts and bankrupting their children and grandchildren to pay for it.

It's a conspiracy of mindless drones being sent secret messages by Clear Channel! Grab the tinfoil, build a hat and protect yourself from their mind control beams! Sweet sainted mother of Alyssa Milano where do people come up with stuff like that? Ugh....You made me defend Clear Channel now I feel so dirty I have to take a shower. Thanks.

I didn't vote for him and I really don't care.



If you are looking to get educated on the subject the AARP is not the best place to accomplish that goal. AARP is a left wing lobbying group that is concerned with making money, promoting socialism, their radical left wing agenda and scaring old people to do so. Despicable. Just look at their position papers for pete's sake. It does not have seniors interests at heart. Unless you are a socialist and wanting a handout then they have you covered. The AARP is spouting the left wing socialist line and it appears you are swallowing it hook line and sinker.

We were all screwed alright. FDR and his socialist goonsquad stuck it to folks years ago. Not only screwing them but screwing their children and grandchildren. And, we will indeed get screwed again because the welfare state is so entrenched very little will be done to SS welfare at the end of the day.


The way to fix this is pay the welfare to those 45 or 50 or so as promised (and means test it-donald trump, ross perot and bill gates don't need a welfare check) and tell younger people like myself that while they will have to pay for the welfare benefit they are going to be responsible for their own retirement. SS would then die off as beneficiaries do and people in my generation would finally be able to shed at least this socialist yoke.

Care to elaborate on the 'irreparable damage' as you see it? I understand that backing a position with actual facts is work but unless you do that what you say is just BS.

Also, would you agree that the current president is doing even more 'irreparable damage' ?

Scotty

[QUOTE=Quint]First the nuclear questions to get them out of the way.



We don't have 10,000 nuclear weapons. We have around 9600 in the "enduring stockpile" and not all of those are deployed. Many are sitting in storage waiting to be dismantled and others are just in long term storage. That overall number grows less every day. Eventually that number will drop to probably below 2000. Having the force at that low of a level actually actually might pose some difficulties that I won't go into here.

Quint,
I don't see how you can honestly believe that nuclear proliferation is not
a grave threat with N. Korea and Iran recently in the news. The possibility
of a mushroom cloud going off (and the drift of that fallout spreading around
the globe) increases every year. Frank is right...we don't need them!


No.



I'm not sure which nuclear submarines you are referring to. Our Ballistic missile submarines, the Ohio Class fleet ballistic missile submarines, are no longer being built. They are paid for. We haven't built one since the mid 90s.

Cutting the military just isn't an option at the moment what with WWIII on and all.

Unfortunately, WWIII could break out someday soon. And remember, it is
always a rich man's war and a poor man's fight.




I'm for people taking care of their own retirement. The federal government should have never got into this in the first place. It is not their job! I'm against handouts to anyone.

Are you for allowing old people to go homeless and hungry? At least, with SS
they are PAYING for their benefits through taxes while they are producing income
and working.

Then by all means go right ahead just don't pick my pocket at gunpoint to do so.




Class bias? If a taxpayer that is getting hosed is class bias then I guess I am.


He did.



Kinda like how a wife that gets slapped around all the time loves her husband. Just because he was loved by a gullible nation doesn't mean he was a good president. He was anything but. He did nearly irreparable damage to this nation.


Old people weren't starving or on the streets. Not in any great numbers.

Yes they were. You need to read your history. My mother and father (both
in their 80's) can remember. They had all kinds of relatives coming to live
with them on their farm in East Texas.

People were on the streets because of the depression which FDR, contrary to popular belief, did little to solve. What he did do was often found unconstitutional and what he did manage to get passed into law has damaged this country immeasurably.

And what makes you think a depression can't come again? I have news for
you, there will be one in the very near future that will make the original one
look like a piece of cake.



SS is indeed welfare. It is wealth redistribution. It is taking money from my pocket at gunpoint and giving it to someone else. It is a tax that gets used for welfare. SS is just that...welfare. It is not a retirement plan or a trust fund. If a 401K or retirement plan was operated like the federal government's ponzi scheme is the people involved would be put in prison.

Actually, many 401k's are being pilfered and no one is going to prison. How
come you are so against "welfare" and don't give a ---- about corporate
welfare? We spend far more on corporate welfare than on welfare for people,
and for no good reasons like job creation. Hell, we even PAY corporations to
lay off workers!
So are you against Bush's socialist scheme where we will pay BILLIONS of dollars
to investment firms to "manage" our accounts? We already have socialism in
this country--socialism for the rich!


People wouldn't be in poverty if they didn't have to surrender their payroll taxes to the government. They could invest it in very safe investments and would have a much bigger check coming at 65 than they do with SS. Plus they could pass that on to their kids when they died because it is theirs. Some protection. The mafia and bullies often have similar protecction schemes.

Educate yourself more on this subject. In Bush's plan the stock market would
have to go like gangbusters for decades on end to make that kind of return, and
like I said thats not gonna happen. A major correction in the market is a coming.
(You can take that to the bank--maybe ten or twenty years from now). Again,
Britain has done it and it was a disaster. Read your current events.
James in Houston

I was recently reading that the average family now has something like $9,000 in credit card debt. And you're suggesting that, given the opportunity, these same folks will wisely and competently invest their would-be Social Security contributions?

Seems to me that even the staunchest of conservatives would have a problem with a plan that is destined to leave a large segment of the population high and dry--with nowhere to turn but to the state and federal dole. Haven't we been through this whole scenario in connection with the health care crisis? If you think that the "hands off" policies that have dominated in the medical arena over the last decade have improved your bottom line, take a look at the bill the next time you visit the emergency room. You're largely subsidizing indigent care of the most expensive kind. The fact is, people will not be dumped from stretchers onto the sidewalk, so it's naive to think that you're not going to end up picking up the tab in one form or another.

Libertarian, "self-responsibility" policies (appealing as they are in the abstract) seem to work only for that small segment of the population that is, in fact, self-responsible. Removing the up-front "safety net" seems, more often than not, to simply result in the need for even more government intervention--albeit further down the line.

Well said, clearly written and right on the money!
Scotty

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I'm all for being religious but stay away from organized religions, they seem to cause more harm than good.

Far more money is spent on medicare/medicaid than on social security payments. With the increased cost of healthcare in this country, I don't see that changing. I have to wonder why the monthly payments of social security have been targeted, but medicare/medicaid now offers prescription drug coverage, which will increase spending in that area even more.