co community with a twist

[to live free]

[QUOTE=homebirtha]I think you'll find that most of us here, those actually doing the homesteading thing or some form of it, are very happy with our lives. We love where we live, we love our homestead, we love the life we're giving to our kids. That's why we do what we do. So I don't think you're going to sell some imaginary utopia to a group of people who have already found their own version. KWIM? Ever heard the saying "preaching to the choir"? The ones who you might sell it to are those trapped in suburbia, living a life of drudgery. But what you have to ask yourself is why are they still there? Why haven't they made their way out yet? Is it because they're biding their time, saving their money, until they can escape? Or is it because they're too lazy to try? Or too stuck with their suburban lifestyle that they'll never want to give up? And are those the kind of people you want to build this utopia with? I wouldn't want to, because they're the ones who are going to bail on you that first hard winter. See, the ones who would make good contributors to your society are the ones who already out there doing it.

I also think you have a very idealized vision of life in the 1800s. The reality of it was quite different from the movie version.

As for the insurance issue, it's easy for you to sit in your government-paid housing, with your fully-paid military medical care, and tell us we should forget about insurance. But you're view of reality is extremely skewed. Yes, it would be nice to not have to play the insurance game, and if you don't have a family to think about, maybe you could afford the risk. But once you've built a home for your family on your land, you won't be willing to risk losing it all to one injury, accident, or illness. Mock insurance while you get it all for free, but you'll be singing a different tune when you join us in the real world.

Originally Posted by to live free

i understand what you are saying. let me ask you a question. You got kids. are you happy with the way your area is, ie your state?

I have been in the "real world" and i know what insurance costs. i don't live in gov't housing,and know i don't get it free i have to pay for just like you do!!!!! only it may be cheaper then your plan. if you think we make money in the military think again. my family has to get wick checks because we only make 21k a year. thats with six years in.

[Vera]

Interesting thread. Me, I'd hate to have more than the two quiet neighbors that I do have... community life is NOT for me. And there are other things that'd keep me from being part of what you're describing:
First and foremost, finances - I know what my bills are and since I'm not willing to make do without electricity, the internet, and running hot water, I'd have to make and sell one heck of a lot of soap to pay for that. Add property taxes, healthcare costs (I have lupus), vehicle maintenance and registration fees and gas and insurance, telephone charges/internet, and animal feed/vet care, and I don't see how I should find enough time in a day to make enough soap to pay for all of it. That is assuming that there'd be enough of a market for my soap AND the ton of it that the rest of the community needs to sell.
Savings are important too - how would I go about replacing a busted water heater or a leaky roof without savings? Labor help from neighbors is nice, but materials still don't come cheap. So, how do we save money on an income from soap? I'm not even talking about a retirement fund for those who won't feel like gumming their neighbors' bread at age 95, just a way to keep from going under for the next, say, 10 years.

Things have changed and like it or not, in this country, it's not well received when kids don't get whatever healthcare society deems necessary (save up for checkups, shots, medications, ER visits, etc.)... in some states, it's illegal to withhold vet care from sick animals... there are fees from everything from driver's license renewals to post office box rentals... people get genetic and civilization diseases that nobody in the olden days even heard of... all of that is what needs to be taken into account when looking at the GOOD things that were possible at another time (when people didn't have to deal with all our added modern-day stuff).
Is it legal to bury folks in the backyard or out under the oak tree where you're planning to set this up and is it permissable to process the dead at home, or do folks have to be able to handle the present-day expenses of a funeral home and official burial site?
If your neighbor doesn't have adequate savings to build a decent home and the thing blows down in the first storm, will all residents/participants join in the rebuilding with a merry song on their lips? Twice or three times? If there ARE building codes to adhere to for everyone's safety, can you get the inspector to come out and inspect on the group's schedule? Will the building department be resentful of the whole project because it seems anti-government?

See? There's a BIG clash between the benefits of olden-day living and modern-day stumbling blocks. Not saying that what you suggest is impossible, but do the research... there are several projects of that nature in progress, so those people are the ones to grill on successes and failures, good ideas and pitfalls. I'm sure they started out with more idealism than reality and worked their way towards a workable solution by trial and error. The difference between Mennonites or Amish and "us here" (the people you asked for input) is that we are products of civilized/modern living and have extended hopes/dreams/expectations along with a different mindset concerning our individual selves. I'm not sure that a bunch of individualists would do well in a commune-like setting in the long run.

[MorrisonCorner]

Originally Posted by oz in SC

Relying on neighbors instead of an insurance company sounds nice enough.

You know... it does on paper... and it doesn't when you haven't consulted with the neighbors, you just "expect" them to bail you out. ESPECIALLY if what you are doing is depending on them to keep their little noses to the grindstone so you can live the lifestyle you want while occasionally tapping into their resources to bail you out.

Case and point: ski bums. These would be not-so-young people who have dedicated their lives to low wage seasonal employment, junk cars, and thousands of dollars in sports equipment, so they can enjoy a high leisure lifestyle. Naturally, they carry squat all in insurance. So if they get hurt or sick what do they do? Appeal to their employers, who can't pay these bills either, and then the appeal goes out to the whole community in the form of a formal or informal fundraiser.

Now, if we were talking someone who was working full time year round and fell on hard times, I'd be a lot more comfortable with this. But what we're talking about is someone living a high leisure lifestyle (and a high risk lifestyle) and basically expecting his (or her) community to pick up the consequences of that lifestyle.

I feel the same way about people who homestead without insurance and then expect to be bailed out by "the community" if something goes wrong. It seems a little unfair to be unwilling to allocate your resources to protect yourself, and then expect your community to shoulder that burden for you.

Frankly, I think it gives homesteaders (and ski bums) a really bad reputation. It makes us look like freeloading bums.

[MorrisonCorner]

I think To Live Free is lonesome, and is hoping that a community of like minded folks in one space would become a defacto instant extended family. Leaving aside all the practical issues of how such a thing might be arranged, I can certainly see the appeal on an emotional level. I live in a "rural" neighborhood in a tourist town which is attracting ever wealthier people who are building gated trophy homes. These are neighbors.. they are aliens from mars! They expect "tradesmen" to call at the back door. They don't say "thank you" when you do something for them, they expect the little people (one actually called my husband, to his face, a peasant) to do things for them.

They are, in a word, weird. And not neighborly at all. In a few years I'll be surrounded by houses... and more "alone" than I was before they were built. Go figure.

So I can sympathize. Even the Shaker communities were organized around the basic need of certain individuals for community and companionship, even if they were organized in such a way as to guarantee their eventual distruction.

And, in truth.. while we can all see issues and problems that would make the thing collapse... and assuming we're not talking about something warped and cult-like... where's the harm? Look at the contribution the Shakers made to the world, and the amount of time they survived, before they imploded. They lasted better than two generations, contributed lasting art and culture to New England...

not an entirely bad legacy for something that was doomed to failure from the get go.

[thebeav]

There’s a huge difference between living in the 1800’s and burying you child or wife when they died of a disease for which there was no cure. Try doing that now knowing that down the road there’s a hospital that could cure your loved one. But you can’t afford it because you don’t have insurance.

[dreadstalker]

why should a person go work and grow old on someone else's place knowing that when you die there will be nothing to pass down the next generation,or are you planning on transferring a title.what is going to happen to all of a persons hard work if you decide to sell?it has happened that way and more then once.

[trixiwick]

I agree with most of the folks on here that it would be a very difficult prospect. The fact is that the very best people - the ones who can and do pull their own weight and then some in real life - are too independent-minded to want to be part of a community like this. They would probably be asked for help 20 times for every one time they asked someone else for help, and that would get old pretty quickly. You're more likely to attract people who are in this for the "receiving" help, not the "giving."

Homesteading types, also, are extremely diverse in their viewpoints, which is one reason I love this forum. Everything from granola hippies to extreme right-wing fundamentalists. No matter how much you try to find people exactly like yourself, there will still be dissent (maybe especially if they're just like you). What kind of system would be in place to deal with that? People should just pack up and go if they don't like it? Sounds kinda life serfdom to me.

And about health insurance: medical costs are so out-of-control these days that it's a necessity. Sorry - I hate it too - but if your kid gets an appendix that's threatening to explode, where is that $30,000 coming from to pay for the surgery? The members of your community will cover it? If you care about your family, I'd think that through very seriously.

I don't think this is an impossible thing you're trying to do - like you said, the Amish manage it. But it sure ain't gonna be easy!

[BCR]

I gotta admit that I don't even put change in the jars at the store for whoever the local unfortunate without insurance is any more.

[comfortablynumb]

there are a few things up there you nevr will avoid...
heath insurance will be one, even a minor injury is expensive, how whill the commune pay for this 50K bill when the commune is worth only 100k to mortgage?

that covers 2 minor injuries.

wait till one of the hippies really hurt themselves and sues the commune... bankrupt!

its a nice idea... i like it. but people being people are unpredictable critters. unless your growing coca or weed, your going to need a lot of a legal cash crop to float just the medical coverage.
the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and no mater how "nice" you run the commune, some irrtant pr*ck is going to make your life hell at some point...
people are like that, just try rental units to experience it.

the commune may govern itself but the STATE will aleays govern the commune.
wait till one of the yunguns contracts measels or something and some hippie nut tries in vain to cure it with herbs and voodoo.
dead kid... here comes the state.
whos at fault? oh I dont wannt be you when it happens.

a community where everyone owns their own plot, IE you invest in say 300 acres and then split it up in 3 or 5 acre lots for sale, with deed restrictions.
ack.. restrictions already. if you just sell em willy nilly I could come buy 10 plots and set up a pig farm.
you cant tell me no, it is MY land right?
maybe I decide to sell off to a quickie mart...

keep workin,, I think your best option is a family theme oriented campground!

[inc]

"Everything from granola hippies to extreme right-wing fundamentalists."

and then there's me....

i think there is a name for these things, called intentional communities. from the outward lookof it, they seem to be a write=off of sorts, some for certain pulling 501 (c) (3) 'nonprofit' status. i am not experienced in that sort of thing but have heard nonprofits described succinctly as a business that pays no taxes. down here there's got to be absolutely thousands of those nonprofits.
does anyone know what the 'angle' is for the non profit status???

http://www.ic.org/pnp/cdir/1995/08taylor.html