co community with a twist

[headintodawoods]

I think you have the right idea. I also think it can work if you get the right group of people. I think this is what alot of people aspire to but are afraid to take the risk, becauase it is a big risk. You could do it with some moderm ammenities and could even make it profitable as a living history place. Good idea!! Maine would be great but short growing seasons and very cold winters.

[cowgirlone]

One thing you might want to try right now...on your own, is bartering. It's a small step in sharing with like minded people, but it's rewarding.

We trade our home grown pork for beef, wood, etc.. Also trade eggs for milk from the local dairy. By word of mouth you can get others interested in what you have to offer. Trading goods and services works nicely for us.

[raymilosh]

TLF-From what I've heard from you, it sounds like you are about as interested in community living as you are in homesteading. Me, too. I thought about/tried to start my own community for many years. Eventually, I found that there are well established communities all over the world who have varied ways of owning land, sharing resources, decisionmaking, etc...ways that are better and more realistic than than what I was planning. So I can tell you that what you want does happen in the world. Communities can be either a good place to homestead or at least a good source of information about what works and what doesn't work. The community in which I live has a variety of folks all of whom have homesteaded to their own desired degree. We own the land cooperatively, barter a lot and have a soft form of concensus for decision-making. I have a good house on 64 acres, ponds, org garden, fields, kids, like minded trustworthy neighbors, etc. It has worked out very nicely for me. I didn't have to go through all the land aquisition and lawyer and huge investment stuff, either. The ability to openly and honestly communicate is the big key. I suggest you check out FIC.IC.org for a list of intentional communities and visit Twin Oaks, Virginia for its annual communities conference.
To those who say it can't be done..it's true for you, but, for those who say it can be done, it's true for you, too. I think it is Anais Nin who said "We don't see the world as it is, we see the world as we are."

[Cabin Fever]

NO, I don't want to live in a "community".....that's why we moved to this 40 acres. We live right in the middle of it. No one can see us and we can't see anyone else...it's wonderful. I don't like to rely on others and I don't like others to rely on me (except family and close friends).

I guess I enjoy the freedom of being my own person too much to co-habitate with others. Co-habitation was okay for the hippies and communists, but not those of us who enjoy our freedom to make our own decisions and live on our own land.

[boxwoods]

You would need a state that has NO property tax
or you would need to have a business that would produce income to meet those expenses. or some of the peeps would have to take jobs.

The Jehova Witness have communities that are self sufficient. They produce all their food needs and enough to sell. beef, hogs, poltry, produce etc. as do the Amish

[BCR]

No, I wouldn't want to live there. I already live in an old farmhouse, updated for today. I work for myself and have a home office. I make up my own schedule and decide what I want to do with my acreage. Why would I give that up?

Plus, I have a community. I know my neighbors and though it can be inconvenient, I help them when asked or I see the need. Recently I have mixed up a recipe for one neighbor who had unexpected company, 'lent' eggs, kept an eye on a 13 year old home alone for 2 hours, etc. Meanwhile, I know that when these snows come and get deep another neighbor will plow my long driveway, another one brought me two loads of dry firewood he found in the shed of a cabin he is redoing for me to use outside at the firepit for sledriding and cookouts. I am ever grateful for my neighbors and do my best to be a good one. It has really been a pleasure to know in a pinch folks are there. Otherwise, we leave each other alone beyond a wave or sharing news of the neighborhood (which is really a 1.5 mile stretch).

[to live free]

the property tax is low for this area that i bought the land in. as to pay for those taxes that would be where peoples individual sales of home made goods/crops would help pay. the growing season could be extended with "greenhouses" that would be hidden with colonial buildings. all other crops are able to be grown with a normal maine season, ie apples,potatoes,blueberries,raspberries, we would turn them into jellies/jams, make cider normal and hard, there is a lot to grow and make to make a proffitable living up here. and we can do mail orders aswell. so like i said it is very doable, i also would have no objections for people desiring to work else but live in the town.

[Quint]

From reading history from back in the revolution and pre revolutionary days when my kin came here to the new world and knowing my family history I think sometimes we romanticize and idealize the past. It was an EXTEMELY difficult and dangerous life. Some of my kin in the early 1700s had 13 or 14 or more kids and over half of them died before reaching adulthood. The ones that reached adulthood had to deal with disease and more than a few of my kin were shot full of arrows and had their scalps removed. Even back in the 1800s when my kin hacked this farm I live at now out of the wilderness they had to deal with droughts, floods, disease, wild indians, the occasional outlaw, all while trying to clear enough land to grow enough food to survive the winter while trying to get a shelter built so they didn't freeze to death. They worked from sunup to sundown and many times had to do so with a rifle in one hand and an ax or farm implement in the other just to keep from catching an arrow in the back. (which did happen a time or two here as I understand. One was my multiple great grandfather who caught one in the small of his back and his little toddler boy who also was shot and mutilated while he sat playing horse on a fence)

Crops failed on a regular basis and the cattle could be stricken with disease with no way to really diagnose or treat them. The weather tried to kill you even after the indians were gone. You starved if screwed up. You likely died if you got anything more than a minor injury. A simple broken arm was a life threatening situation. You couldn't just run into town for supplies. There was no town. No community other than maybe a neighbor a dozen miles away that you might see 3 times a year. Your supplies were pretty much what you brought with you in the wagon when you came here. Life was extremely complicated just in a different way than it is now.

As for living in some sort of commune or cooperative village I would have to say nope. never. I'm way too independent for something like that. I'm not sure I see the point of it. A person can live like that now if they wish without creating some sort of commune. If I want someone to help me build a house I exchange money or goods or service to pay for that help. I can either raise my own crops or work out some sort of rent arrangement beneficial to me and whoever is farming it. I can live as primitively or modern as I like now. Why re-invent the wheel? Also when you bring people together like that and "share" labor and resources or property there will be problems. Human nature just isn't conducive to that kind of thing. Someone is always going to want what someone else has. Someone is going to get power mad. Someone is going to be a trouble maker. Someone is going to be lazy. Someone is going to end up jealous of someone messing with their mate. Someone is going to get mad because joe helped bob with his barn but didn't help as much with his. Someone isn't going to like someone else's kids or outside friends.

Nope. Count me out. I do intend to have my own little commune though. I call it my family. Myself, my wife (eventually when I can find one that likes to live in the sticks) and my kids (also eventually). Works much easier than dealing with a bunch of strangers.

[to live free]

i'm sorry to hear your family had it so rough. I think most are missing my idea or they just don't understand it. Living history is what i had in mind. no comunity garden or house. nothing like the twin oaks or the farm. to me those are just a strange as my wanting to live some what like our 1780's families did. but we have one massive advantage, modernism. we have the ability and knowledge to grow better crops, raise healthier animals, and a way to sell our hand made goods called the U.S. postal system. The idea is to want to live differently then how everyone does now (modern) and live when there as a time of chivarly,decency and above all commonsense. SO I GUESS IT WOULDN'T BE FEMINIST TWIN OAKS, OR HIPPIEVILLE THE FARM. they can live that way because they wanted too, and twin oaks is doing a pretty good job at surviving.

[sancraft]

Oh a life unincumbered by such things as civil rights, personal freedom. The history in the this country fof my people is certainly not one I want to repeat. :no:

[rambler]

Originally Posted by to live free

I think most are missing my idea or they just don't understand it. Living history is what i had in mind.

[My mom was one of 16 (living) siblings, and one of her sisters had 14 (living) children. Big families. One of the Uprisings happened around these parts 145 years ago, so very familiar with the arrow thing too.]

Anyhow, I guess what many of us fail to see is how the 'all on my property' thing will work out. And what is in it for anyone willing to join you.

I like the idea of an 1800's community, and can see like-minded folks drawn to it. I understand you can use more modern 'stuff' but just try to keep the 1800 look & feel - within reason. (Who decides what 'reason' is?)

Most of us already live in a community that supports each other. Even some of us more stern idividualists are big supporters of each other. Every fall neighbors get together here & help each other finish harvest (I farm for a living) if a problem comes up. Most one asks for is fuel replaced.

I'm not understanding the need for this to happen on your property? It brings up all sorts of problems that will scare folks away. What you described is _exactly_ like those communes mentioned. I'm having a hard time seeing a difference.

I think a subdivision set up like an old village would be great. But making all that fake building front to hide the greenhouses and so forth costs a grat deal of extra work & money. (Who pays, who works harder, who owns it, how are taxes & zoning handled?)

I don't see how it holds together with people who have no ties or stake in the project other than yourself. Ultimately it will _all_ be on your head, all the expenses, all the zoning issues, all the mitigation between people with different opinions, all the taxes...... (what a headache.)

Even if I wanted to join such a thing, I would have _many_ resorvations of how that all works out. I come to your property & invest 2, 5, 7 years of my life.

What do I get in return? What if I don't like it? How do I protect myself? What if you go belly up, what happens to me??? What happens to the dream? Do I end up in a homeless shelter? If I'm the blacksmith & pound a chisel through my hand or a spark in my eye, who pays the health costs? You got a health plan for me?????

It would be very, very hard to set down any type of roots in your project. It has way too many unanswered questions. So far you haven't really answered any of those _serious_ type questions. The real-life stuff. Make believe from the 1800s is cool, but one ends up living a double life, and that actually costs more that 'regular' living.

So, it looks like the only type of people you will attract are wandering, rootless, aimless people, (Perhaps looking for that free house you are going to build them.) That would make me even _more_ scared of this project, as that type of person is far more likely to bring social, ecconomic, or laziness issues to your village.......

You have a neat idea.

You have no plan on how to achieve it.

I think people want more hard core plans on how you protect their interests, and your own intrests, so this thing has a chance of succeeding.

Since this is a new plan, I understand, you don't have the details worked out, & you wouldn't even mind some help along those lines?

Just, hard to see where this will go. Need to better understand what the finite, on paper, real life, works in 2005 world, deal is that a person would be getting into. Right now, I give up my life, agree to present an 1800's appearance, work hard, and if I don't like it at some future point in time I can walk away empty handed with no retirement, social security, or medical benifits.

If I am a worthwhile person, I would have a _very_ hard time commiting to that plan - I get totally hosed on the deal!

Neat idea tho, you could/ would have to set it up with some tourist visits in mind. (Needed income!) Mind you, I like the concept you have, even tho it would not be my cup of tea. I certainly think there are 25 families out there that could also share such an idea. _IF_ you can provide them with an incentive to work at it, _and_ provide them with 2005 health & retirement plans protecting their futures & their families.

What are the pluses for people to join up with you? How will it better their life & their future and their families? Currently, I don't see any. Why come live on your property, sweat a lot, and have nothing?

(Again, just idle thought. Don't mean to be negative, just trying to understand & hopeully be understood.)

--->Paul

[BCR]

Not convincing me yet....you can be polite and decent and kind to others NOW. Why wait? You can practice and learn commonsense now. You can even be chivalrous, provided you are patient with others amusement at your expense.

But hey, I won't go back before there were women's rights. Do you expect women and men to buy into the 1700's sex roles?

You know, you might be happy being a re-enactor at Williamsburg or some other location.

[to live free]

i understand what you are saying. let me ask you a question. You got kids. are you happy with the way your area is, ie your state?

medical benefits, life insurances, are things devised to take your money. what if i told you i had an idea that would make millions. an isurance company that doesn't take more then 1/3 of your lifes work that you paid into. your now 65 and the insurance company drops you because your old and a liability. now what. how much money have you wasted already on insurances
also if we keep letting our gov. do what it's doing there won't be a social secruity. lets say you got injured, lets you file for workmens comp you cant get it wasn't job related. i'm not going to simple kick you out. you stay you work arround your injury. there is an old addage. NOTHING IN LIFE IS GURENTEED BUT TAXES AND DEATH. If you died tomorrow and you went to "heaven" could you say you lived a happy and meaningful life?
now i'm not saying that if you settled with me and my family you would have a meaningful life.
the greenhouses would be for crops that need more growing time only. a cash crop. crop that would pay for the cost of building one quickly.
are you french? =) my mother has 16 brother and sisters as well but up in maine french families are usually large.
i do have ideas for alot of the questions, and value others inputs and ideas that is why i started a group at msn so that we can get togther and work out these indifferences,questions. http://groups.msn.com/ColonialLiving

[caberjim]

"medical benefits, life insurances, are things devised to take your money. what if i told you i had an idea that would make millions. an isurance company that doesn't take more then 1/3 of your lifes work that you paid into. your now 65 and the insurance company drops you because your old and a liability. now what. how much money have you wasted already on insurances"

Have you ever had to have a major surgury? One that you were responsible for paying off, not the military. I have twice. My son did once when he was 2. Unless you plan on building a free hospital in your community, these things cost money. And doctors expect you to pay. That is what medical insurace is for. Those 3 hospital visits cost in excess of $60,000. Probably more in today's dollars. That's cash I don't have laying around. And for people working a farm lifestyle, there are going to be plenty of doctor visits. Maybe enough to bankrupt your property. Or maybe someone gets hurt on your property. You say you will take care of them, but what if they decide to sue you anyway? It happens all the time. What if they cannot go on workig? Will you take them in and be their caretaker for the rest of their lives? Saying this won't happen to you because you are only taking in good, quality, likeminded people is arguably insane.

Do I like paying life insurance? Not really, but I know if anything happens to me as the sole source of income, my wife will be able to keep the house and stay home raising the children. That is important to me. I will not put my family's welfare and future in the hands of a group of people that may or may not be there. That's taking responsibility.

"If you died tomorrow and you went to "heaven" could you say you lived a happy and meaningful life? "

Despite having paid money for insurance? Yes. And I could relax there knowing my family will not have to sell the farm and have my wife get a full time job.

For whatever reason, you seem to be in denial about the influences and pervasiveness of the real world. Unfortunately, you cannot escape it by building your own 1800s town. Maybe if you were the only one there, but all those other people and the problems and responsibilites they bring you will keep you firmly in the clutches of modern US society.

If you want a community where you can escape modernity, you need to join the amish or old mennonites. Even Twin Oaks cannot avoid it and survive.

[milkstoolcowboy]

I think Paul and some others are dead-on, you can be a part of a community without all living communally. There's a whole lot of history that shows things work better when it's clear "what's mine is mine, what's yours is yours." Doesn't mean you can't help one another out and work together.

If a farmer is laid up around here, all the neighbors help with planting and harvest. Guy died in late summer here a few years ago, so many neighbors showed up to help harvest that wasn't anything for some to do. Same with more day-to-day stuff. Had a neighbor come down yesterday and help put some mirrors on my tractor. He's a bachelor, and brought down some clothes to patch. (I guess I got the good deal there, as I didn't sew them, my wife did.) We traded the dollar equivalent of almost $10,000 of work with him this past year, but we aren't living together. Same with a lot of other stuff, help a guy with haying, he'll help you during corn combining. Need help pourin cement or wiring a shed, neighbor's will come over and maybe change for some shell corn. I had a hired man one time who never took a check, we'd just keep track of his hours and then I'd pay him in corn. (He fed out some pigs and steers.) Barter for what you can to lower reported income.

Some of us do like where we live. Like some others, our farm has been in the family much more than a hundred years. (I think about 135). We do have a sense of community, even though we try to get along as best we can without help.

If the Amish have such a great life, why is it that they keep wanting to ride in our vehicles, use our phones, listen to radios and what not? In lots of old-order Amish communities, they've got almost a third of the kids goin' English. They use gas and kerosene engines left and right, but no rubber tires. Are their lives really simpler, or just a lot more difficult?

Why can't you just do your own thing without trying to get a whole mess of other people doing it?

[to live free]

"trying to get a whole mess of other people doing it?" i think you missed one of my other posts, i'll be doing this on my own if people want to join they can no one is forcing anyone todo anything

[jerneeon]

I wouldn't mind living in a commune.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by to live free

i understand what you are saying. let me ask you a question. You got kids. are you happy with the way your area is, ie your state?

medical benefits, life insurances, are things devised to take your money. what if i told you i had an idea that would make millions. an isurance company that doesn't take more then 1/3 of your lifes work that you paid into. your now 65 and the insurance company drops you because your old and a liability. now what. how much money have you wasted already on insurances
also if we keep letting our gov. do what it's doing there won't be a social secruity. lets say you got injured, lets you file for workmens comp you cant get it wasn't job related. i'm not going to simple kick you out. you stay you work arround your injury. there is an old addage. NOTHING IN LIFE IS GURENTEED BUT TAXES AND DEATH. If you died tomorrow and you went to "heaven" could you say you lived a happy and meaningful life?
now i'm not saying that if you settled with me and my family you would have a meaningful life.
the greenhouses would be for crops that need more growing time only. a cash crop. crop that would pay for the cost of building one quickly.
are you french? =) my mother has 16 brother and sisters as well but up in maine french families are usually large.
i do have ideas for alot of the questions, and value others inputs and ideas that is why i started a group at msn so that we can get togther and work out these indifferences,questions. http://groups.msn.com/ColonialLiving

I do not have children, if you were refering to me.

I am basically happy ith where & how I live. Taxes are too high, but I get along with my state ok.

Your comment on health insurance is eye-openning. It becomes much more important when you get another 10 years older, or have a spouse/ family. My ag coop just spent 3 years getting approal/ acceptance/ ducks in a row to get self-insured. This was with a lot of lobbying & local support. And half a million investment. Like it or not, these plans need to fit into current hospital/ govt expectations. I do not like the current health/ liability insurance scam, but one can't do without it. Self-insured for health is just not possible in our current climate.

If I died tomorrow I would say I had a great life. Farmed like I wanted to, have some great friends, and the best wife. 'Tis good.

German. You must see the bullheadedness.......

As always, good luck with it.

--->Paul

[carole in ky]

Does anyone out there remember the communes of the 70's? They didn't work because we are all too independent and are not like minded. Mostly they didn't work because some ride while others are doing all the work. Dissention was the reason for failure.

Just being good neighbors is the key to community.

[homebirtha]

I think you'll find that most of us here, those actually doing the homesteading thing or some form of it, are very happy with our lives. We love where we live, we love our homestead, we love the life we're giving to our kids. That's why we do what we do. So I don't think you're going to sell some imaginary utopia to a group of people who have already found their own version. KWIM? Ever heard the saying "preaching to the choir"? The ones who you might sell it to are those trapped in suburbia, living a life of drudgery. But what you have to ask yourself is why are they still there? Why haven't they made their way out yet? Is it because they're biding their time, saving their money, until they can escape? Or is it because they're too lazy to try? Or too stuck with their suburban lifestyle that they'll never want to give up? And are those the kind of people you want to build this utopia with? I wouldn't want to, because they're the ones who are going to bail on you that first hard winter. See, the ones who would make good contributors to your society are the ones who already out there doing it.

I also think you have a very idealized vision of life in the 1800s. The reality of it was quite different from the movie version.

As for the insurance issue, it's easy for you to sit in your government-paid housing, with your fully-paid military medical care, and tell us we should forget about insurance. But you're view of reality is extremely skewed. Yes, it would be nice to not have to play the insurance game, and if you don't have a family to think about, maybe you could afford the risk. But once you've built a home for your family on your land, you won't be willing to risk losing it all to one injury, accident, or illness. Mock insurance while you get it all for free, but you'll be singing a different tune when you join us in the real world.

[QUOTE=to live free]i understand what you are saying. let me ask you a question. You got kids. are you happy with the way your area is, ie your state?