5 Hunters Murdered

Making a vauge comment as an excuse to insult the intelligence of those who took a phrase at its more common lib-speak meaning instead of whatever you may have meant (but have not yet seen fit to describe) falls into the line of behavior that discredits your suggestion that others need to "grow up". Further, homesteading is a few steps beyond simple "country living" - a *homesteader* generally can't afford the repurcussions of the erosion of personal rights consistently pushed by the urban liberals.

Your DB and BF's views sound reasonable, its yours that are being questioned, especially on the already challenged insinuation you have made that the rifle used by the perp was not a suitable hunting gun, *whether or not* it also has/had military applications. It hasn't been that long since there was no real distinction between military and civilian firearms, and even today a great many of the differneces are matters of *perception* rather than accuracy or knockdown power, and just perceiving a gun isn't a suitable hunting weapon doesn't make it so.

I haven't seen any threats against other posters in this thread until this post by you, a comment again of the line that suggests you've got little business telling others to grow up, especially in a thread discussing a tragedy in which a bunch of folks easily fitting the mold you would call "RW" were gunned down by someone with a firearm who didn't respect thier rights - be it property rights or thier right to life.


[fixed quoting]

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Ray Scheel
USDA 8b E. TX / SS31

Gee Bob in NM I thougt lynchings went out of style in 1950's - I'm sure you think every poor soul that was ever pulled from a jail and hung from a tree just must have been guilty- how could a vicious crowd be wrong? Maybe Bob you were one of the guys dressed in your Sunday church suit posing under a swinging black man in a picture from my history class. Well, let me be the first to welcome to the 21st century- where we actually have trials and juries. Too sad to comment further...

five hunters? I heard 6..
http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=72876

"A Hmong immigrant suspected of killing six fellow deer hunters in the Wisconsin woods"

unless it's a whole 'nother story..

Yeah right, welcome to the 21st century. They guy has already admitted that he's guilty. I doubt that he'll ever stand trial. Some pointy headed psychologist will decide that he's "not right in the head". We've already pretty much quit institutionalizing people like that, so they'll get him a social security disability pension and turn him loose. I think I am not the one living in a fantasy world!

Rouen----5 died on the spot---out in the woods---Sunday noon time.
# 6 died Monday evening.
When the thread was first started on Sunday---the 6 th had not yet died.

Bob, I totally agree, but we have to try and true him first, then let the head docs take a look, then he walks after a few years, cause he is crazy, and not from america, [had a hard life]. that is why America is the home of the brave, we really need to get back to the way we were, eye for an eye. people know if you come to America, chances are you can get out of most anything. and most do. sad isn't it., so many lifes ruined. my heart goes out to all of the families, of all of the people involved. including the shooter. because this will change his family forever also.

Couldn't agree more!
Just wish you could hang him more than once!
I'm a firm believer in an eye for an eye to.Wouldn't it be a much better world if the criminal/ murderer still had a fear of being put to death.Let the punishment fit the crime i say.Should leave it up to the family as to how they want it done,or even if they want to be the one to do it.Theres a guy in Ky sitting in a nice cozy jail cell for the murder of my grandmothers sister.Sitting there being cared for by way of my tax dollars, for the next 15 years,and up to 15 more after that,if we the victims family are so lucky.He broke into her house and stabbed her to death with a screw driver (21 times!) i think they said he made off with 18 dollars..There is nothing that could make this wrong rite.But i think i and the rest my family would have felt much better had they held him while i skinned him alive with a dull butter knife.(a little red neck Justice) And i suspect ill still feel this way when they let him out. .Murders that do so in such a fashion as this guy and the one with rifle.Don't deserve to set in cell and watch cable TV at the tax payers expense.They deserve to be dead,very dead!.Hopefully in a fashion as gruesome and as painful or more than what there victims felt.
As for sanity goes.His not mine that is. Insane or not,i could care less.There necks still stretch the same at the end of a rope.

well, if we still had our justice system , instead of the cry baby deal we have now, we wouldn't have the street gangs and all the murders, and drug dealers. when you are going to get strung up, if and when you get saught , would put the stops to a lot of crime, and chain gangs work really well, and working on the rock piles. but that was decided to hard on them . so they get swimming pools, golf courses, tennis courts, tv's, movies, and three squares a day. well ain;t that nice.so now, lots of people don't miond going to prison, 3 meals a day, drugs, booze sex, prison has it all. and they can get a college education, and study their way out of the joint. and they do!!!!!!! it is just crazy.

Folks - the problem is this guy has done exactly what you are suggesting - he didn't like the laws so he took it into his own hands to fix it his way - and created 5 victims. Wrong is wrong - that is why a society has laws.
The theroy of law is to protect the innocent and sort out the guilty. It's not perfect, but it is better than mob rule. I don't think this guy is going to get off on a insanity plea - it's not as easy as you think to do so. We execute many mentally ill people in this country every year to prove it (just check out the most recent death cases in TX if you don't believe me). I don't know if WI has the dealth penalty, but either way I will put money on it that he gets the maximum sentence "if"(and I use that word as the law defines} he is guilty.
You know this the first time on this board I have seen people get this blood thristy over murder. Not long ago a man gruesomly killed his wife and four children (it was on all the news channels) and no one even mentioned it here- are you more angry because this guy killed hunters?

This tragedy could proabably been prevented if instead of confronting this nut case the authorities had been called to remove him from the property. If I find someone in one of my stands I will wish him good luck and go home and call the sheriff and let him do his job. I also live between two deer camps. I know how people act at a deer camp. Sometimes there is a mob mentality and some of the members want to act like bad guys. The shooter said they fired first. No one is believing this, but if I was investigating the case I would surely look into his claim. The bottom line is the guy was a nut case and the hunters did not use their hesds. You have to be careful how you talk to people these days. You never know when you are going to run across one of these psycopaths. This could have been prevented with a little caution and forethought. Deer hunting is not worth dying for.

From what I read the authorities have been called to this guy's house three times in the past few years for domestic violence. Two years ago he was threatening his wife with a gun, but she refused to press charges. No way do I believe the property owners shot first!

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Vang's own account:
''According to Vang's story, he got lost while hunting on public land and ended up in the vacant tree stand - a raised platform used by hunters to see deer and shoot down at them. Vang told investigators he did not realize he was on private property.

Landowner Terry Willers approached, asking why Vang was there and pointed out he was on private property. Vang said he told Willers he had not seen any "no trespassing" signs, climbed down from the stand and started to walk away. Authorities say Willers owns the land along with Robert Crotteau, one of the victims.

Vang said he heard Willers call on a walkie-talkie, and five or six men on all-terrain vehicles approached a few moments later. Vang said the group surrounded him, and some used racial slurs.

He said that he was told to get off the property, and as he started walking away, he turned back and saw Willers point a gun at him from about 100 feet away. He told investigators he immediately dropped to a crouch, and Willers shot at him, the bullet hitting the ground 30 to 40 feet behind Vang.

Vang said he removed the scope from his rifle and began firing, continuing to shoot as the group scattered.He said one of the victims, Joey Crotteau, tried to run away, but Vang chased him and shot him in the back. Crotteau, 20, was killed. Willers was wounded and was listed in fair condition Tuesday.

Vang said as he began to run, an ATV with two people drove past and he fired three or four times, causing both people to fall off the machine. He said that he looked up the trail, saw that one of the men was standing, yelled, "You're not dead yet?" and fired one more shot in the man's direction. He said he did not know if he hit the man or not.

Vang said he then ran away.''

He chased down and shot a man in the back...

It occurs to me that a lot of people might not know what the story is with the Hmong. Don't get me wrong - this guy is guilty and should spend the rest of his life in prison. But I'd like to say something in defense of the Hmong in general.

The Hmong are an ethnic group with a long and convoluted story, but the Hmong in Vietnam and Laos were essentially chased there out of China a very long time ago and they are culturally different from the other people who live in that region.

During the war in Vietnam they went out on a limb and sided with the United States against the NVA. These people were totally vulnerable - dirt poor and often living on or beyond the front lines. The CIA recruited large numbers of them initially to provide intelligence and to act as a sort of proxy for the South Vietnamese army. What they gave us was above and beyond what was ever asked of them. These people fought alongside American soldiers for years. They carried us when we fell, buried us when we died and even rescued wounded POWs and smuggled them to safety. They weren't paid much and many of them weren't paid at all. They may have been on the other side of the world and had no official standing, but they were truly American soldiers and fought for the same thing that our sons and fathers did: a hatred of tyranny, a sense of higher duty and a love for the men at their sides wearing the American flag.

Thousands of American veterans owe their lives to these people. The real sadness of their story is how they were rewarded for their loyalty. The North Vietnamese government *hated* the Hmong for helping America. Once we decided to pull out we left them to die. In the face of a full-fledged NVA invasion, these villagers had absolutely no hope. The communists hunted them down like animals - men, women and children - and took the worst sort of revenge against them. Tens of thousands were slaughtered. Despite our earlier promises that we would not abandon them in the event of a victory by the North, we did exactly that. No provisions were made for evacuation or rescue.

Throughout the 1970's, a number of them managed to escape the country through various convoluted routes. Once they managed to leave, they were generally granted refugee status and citizenship by America. Talk to any Hmong in America today and you will hear a nightmarish story of family members murdered and desperate months or years of hiding in the jungle and working their way to freedom.

We owe these people a huge debt that has still never been repaid. Today, even second generation Hmong who were born in America have low literacy rates and often live in abject poverty. There was never a major effort to teach the immigrants English or help them to make the transition out of the third world. This is not a matter of welfare or socialism. They bled for us and lost everything in the name of our flag. The Hmong are true patriots.

Ahh, that brought a teer to my eye...shoot the guy!

Authorities looking at possible Vang connection to 2001 hunter slaying, detective says

Associated Press
November 24, 2004 RELATED1125


MILWAUKEE -- Authorities are looking into whether the man suspected of killing six deer hunters in northern Wisconsin this week was involved in the unsolved slaying of another deer hunter three years ago, a detective told a newspaper.

``I can tell you we have been in contact with authorities from Sawyer County to address that,'' Clark County Sheriff's Department Detective Kerry Kirn told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel on Tuesday.

Jim Southworth was shot to death Nov. 23, 2001, as he hunted on family land 10 miles east of Neillsville and Kirn said he had exchanged frequent calls this week with investigators in Sawyer County, where the six hunters were killed and two others wounded Sunday.

But ``it is premature to speculate if there is a connection'' between the two incidents, Kirn said.
Lauren Hesebeck
Renee Jones
Star Tribune South

Kirn did not immediately return a call left early today by The Associated Press. Calls to the Sawyer County Sheriff's Department on the matter were referred to state Justice Department spokesman Brian Rieselman, who was not immediately available at his office early today.

Southworth was shot twice in the back, an autopsy found. Court record say several of those killed Sunday where shot in the back.

Witnesses said they saw a pickup truck with three men inside on a road near where Southworth's body was found, about 80 miles south of Sunday's shooting.
a hunters' vigil at the courthouse
A hunters' vigil at the courthouse
Richard Sennott
Star Tribune

The three men were described as Asian from 5-foot-4-inches to 6-feet tall, driving a silver or gray Nissan or Chevrolet pickup truck, possibly a late 1980s model with a light-colored fiberglass topper.

Chai Vang, 36, of St. Paul, Minn., who is being held on $2.5 million bond in Sunday's shootings, is 5-foot-4, according to a court document.

Vang has owned a 1987 Nissan pickup, the Journal Sentinel said, attributing that information to an unnamed online search service.
Map of shootings

Sawyer County authorities have said a dispute over use of a deer stand on private property was a factor in this week's shooting. One of the theories Clark County authorities have been pursuing is that Southworth was shot after confronting a trespasser.

Vang had an out-of-state license to hunt in Wisconsin during 2001, said Mike Bartz, a Department of Natural Resources warden manager. The St. Paul man also had a license in 2000, 2002 and this year, Bartz said.

Kirn described the three people sought in Southworth's murder ``persons of interest'' in that case.

``To our knowledge, those are the only three people who we haven't identified who were in that area that day,'' Kirn said.

The Clark County sheriff's detective said investigators from the state Department of Justice are investigating both cases.

``They need to do their investigation and when all facts come out, and they will relay that to me, and we'll make the comparison,'' Kirn said.

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The update thet I just heard on this whole afair is that the property owner started the confrontation with the man from Laos in the tree stand, insulted him with all sorts of racial vulgarity and then fired a shot at the man when he did not immediately come down from the tree. The man in the tree, fired back with deadly force and after that just shot at anyone who came at him. Who knows what's going on in the mind of an immigrant from a war torn country like Loas. Tell you what, as much as I sympathise with the hunters familys, if I were off my path a bit and was on someones property and they insulted me and then shot at me, well I'd be shooting back and it wouldn't be at their feet.


-Anataq

I don't see the point of hanging him, because avenging the hunters by killing him won't change anything. He will wish he didn't and then he'll be dead. The reason I would kill him is simply so he wouldn't be a threat to people anymore, and so my parents (and me when I'm older), don't have to spend our money to keep him alive. In other words, I'd give him a lethal injection, end of story.

Vang (the cold blooded murderer) gave his statement on Tuesday in which he claimed he was baraged with racist remarks and then shot at.

If you still believe in the tooth fairly, you'll believe this one. Nearly everyone that owns land bordering public property has had to deal with trespassers.....and I'd lay a million to one these property owners dealt with it before. There was no shot fired. Rational people don't fire shots are armed people after a confrontation.

The people are absolutely livid over this sorry excuse of a human being rubbing salt in the wounds with this line of mullarkey.
Vang had absolutely, positively no business on the property. Zero, nada, none!
Yes, a confrontation no doubt took place, and it may have even been heated. Words, even racist words, are no excuse for cold blooded murder.


I suspect Vang will be implicated in the murder of a deer hunter in Neilsville, which took place in 2001. The victim was shot twice in the back.


It is my hope Vang will plead guilty to the charges, and endure a long life in prison, where he will spend the remainder of his life, living in constant fear of retribution.

Yup!

The man CHASED DOWN unarmed people and killed them. the property owners had ONE GUN between them all, this man ran after them and shot them as they were running.
I seriously doubt the property owner fired at this man.

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