Today is a sad day

shygal, you're being very judgemental of me aren't you being a bit harsh. Aren't you not perfect yourself? you ol'meany.

Aw/ well, there'z opinions cafe-0lay and then thairs the truth.

I stil luv u.

You know, sdcm, thats a favorite rebuttal. No Im not perfect, but if your methods are the "correct" ones, does that mean you are?
I would rather leave the whole thing up to God myself, to decide who is right and who is wrong.
As for me, I guess Im done here. One thing I have learned is you never can win an argument with a zealous Christian.

__________________
Recognize the beauty in things, in creation, even when thats difficult to do.
Be loving, show compassion. Create while we're here.
Enjoy this life, be in this life but not be of it.

You know, you may very well love me, but for some reason I don't believe you. Your attitude very much says otherwise.

It must be nice to always know the truth. To have everything cut and dried. All nice and black and white. I love Jesus. He is my Lord and I know my way around the Bible reasonably well. And I did want to share my *opinion* just to add the understanding that not all Christians share yours.

Tell me, what does the word say about our stewardship of animals? It is no doubt something you are well versed in or you wouldn't have made a challenge in that deparment.

So did you go out of your way to use a zero in my screen name or was that a typo?

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Heather

Wherever you go, there you are.

fer cryin out loud folks- arn't you getting a bit carried away here? this is a simple matter of the horse being stored, painters wife doing a good thing by taking care of it at the governments request. of course she is owed money for the storage care and upkeep of the horse. just like you would be if you owned a storage area and someone (gov) asked you to store a bulldozer for awhile and then left it there for a year! get your head back on your neck- this has nothing to do with theft or religion!

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www.MontanaSticksAndStones.com at Goshen Farm

that's just my country voice Heather, you know, like folks write SPDCman,
you know I love you.
yup, as an animal husbandman, I'm well versed in that dept. as well.
Will painters wife keep the horse? I don't now. but Think on this,

imagine, you're accused in a court of law "cruelty to animals", they've taken your pet rabbit, chicken, lamb, goat, dog, etc... whatever. You are exonerated. Now the people that have aliented you from your pet. "alienation of affection". Want you to pay for the damages they've incurred you. I would support you in getting back your pet. i.e. love

Do you have a specific question about the Laws where animals are mentioned "animal stewardship"?

an example "If you meet your enemy's Ox or his ass going astray, you shall surely bring it back to him again. If you see the ass of him that hates you lying under his burden, you should help him left it up, you should surely help him (your enemy).

Jesus taught this Law, "Love thy enemy". It's about people helping people.

But, I'll try to answer any specific question you may have.

I'll play along with that...You may be right, it may be as simple as that. Painters wife may simply just have gotten in over her head. She might find out she is not entitled to compensation due to the nature of her work (voluntary) (I don't know, I've no ideas what rights she's retained or waived). She might find herself on the other end of a lawsuit if she's not careful. It's better to not let our emotions get the best of us.

I would believe it was just about warehousing (not Warhorseing )a horse if nothing had been said about; not wanting to send the horse back, keeping it, not wanting the exonerated man to regain his life, liberty, & happiness...

but, if anyone should have to pay. I say it's the local gov.

You don't have to mess with the cafeaulaitinfj thingy, I just did that to get a guy on another list off my back about my old name, infjragamuffin. He said it was annoyingly cute. You can call me Heather.

Do you think God cares about the kind of experience the animal is having?
Whether they are well cared for or whether they suffer?

Does man have any kind of responsibility for animals, his own or just in general? Do you think the dominion God gave man over the earth involves any kind of stewardship?

What about the Bible other than the Torah/Pentatteuch? The Gospels and the Proverbs?

I'm glad you love me and that it means you will help me with my animals. I have a spot in my fence I don't know how to fix. Our little hound keeps getting out. I need help with funds to get said little hound spayed. I also have a cat I need to find a home for. The hound and the cat were both emaciated strays that I have done the best I could with. Once you feed them for three days here, they become yours and the shelters are usually full. I'm not on drugs and my pets are fed and cared for as best as I can afford. None of them are starved, scared of people, or missing fur. The four kids are also fed, not missing hair, and aren't scared of people (they think I'm over-protective). My hubby works full-time, but it's hard to stretch the money far enough to take care of everything. Plus he's on the road most of the time, so he isn't here to fix stuff. I've really lucked out here. I'm your not only your "sister" but since we've been arguing, I might also qualify as an enemy, either way you will help me.

Boy I'm sure glad there are people like you still left in this world. When can I expect you?

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Heather

Wherever you go, there you are.

For crying out loud. It's very clear in the Bible, with God, that if we don't take care of what he's given us, we will loose it, one way or another. Very clear. Very simple for anyone to understand. Now, this guy lost 2 of the horses because they died. They are lost, gone. He didn't take care of them. The other ones were in bad enough shape for the sherrif to take them away, gone, he lost them because he didn't take care of them.

We are to be good shepards over our stock, and yes, God expects us to feed them and care for them. The Bible clearly teaches us to be thankfull for what we have. If we care for what he has given us so far, He will give us more. If we aren't thankfull, don't care for them properly, He'll not give us more. And plain common sense tells us what we have will go downhill.

Loving your neighbor dosen't mean breaking your own bank account to feed your neighbors stock. Loving your neighbor simply means love everyone, show love to others. For God so loved the world, the world is everyone. Means hold no grudges, no ill will towards others, no predudices. Yes, and to help others, but we are not responsible for feeding stock a neighbor cannot or will not feed. We are only responsible for our own stock to God. We do not answer for the sins or neglect of others, only our own.

And, personally, I don't believe God would tell me to go to this guys farm and buy feed & fencing & pay for vet bills to save the horses. I believe that God is more concerned & sad about hungry children in our area, and familys who need help and who would be thankful for help. If I had that much money, I would opt for feeding people in need. It saddens God that so many children go to bed hungry each night.

Painterswife did a nice thing by helping out, a good thing. She could afford to help one horse, and she did. If they take the horse away without giving her any compensation at all, then common sense tells us that less and less folks will volunteer when these situations come up. Especially since he wants the horses back and he has no feed for them. All the volunteers will quit, for good reason.

:haha: :haha: :haha:
Here is the chance to put your money where your mouth is, superduperchickenman! After you are done at Heather's, I have some things to be finished up on my chicken coop, and some more winterizing to do so we don't freeze in the winter, so don't take too long there!

__________________
Recognize the beauty in things, in creation, even when thats difficult to do.
Be loving, show compassion. Create while we're here.
Enjoy this life, be in this life but not be of it.

Painterswife,

I wont get involved in all of the back and forth arguing going on about this situation. I have been involved in fostering or placing abused/neglected animals in the past and I commend you for doing such a wonderful thing. All too often people who have severely abused or neglected animals are found 'Not Guilty' and the animals are returned to them, only for the cycle to begin again. I hope this whole situation doesnt keep you from helping in the future, because there are far too few people willing to open their hearts and homes to abused and neglected animals.

Peace,
Jason

Don't you have brothers in your local area to help and pitch in where needed?
If not, it truly is a sad day.

Give me your addresses and I'll see if I can find someone to send over there. First to check out your situation, 2nd to find out if something can be done, needs to be done.

Or bring it on down to my place and I'll see if I can fix it.

I teach privately from the Scriptures Heather, in my home. If you would like to attend one of my classes for free, just send me a PM.

All the good intentions ("animal rights talk"), legal manipulations, tough talk
(threats of violence), slander, emotional attachment to the critters, does not justify breaking, any commandment.

Even if your not Christian, by most standards withholding a man from his property is wrong. commonly refered to as stealing.

Now, I know why the ARM, gets upset. They have the religious zeal of any zealot. They applaud the "system" when any so called animal abuser gets punished, lament it when one is exonerated. Burn scientific labratories, pour paint on womens' clothing, invaid and destroy family farms. But it truely is a sad day when this zealotry spills over and effects the common folks to a point that they forget how to love their neighbor.

volunteer A person who gives his services without any express or implied promise of remuneration. One who intrudes himself into a matter which does not concern him, or one who pays the debt of another without request, when he is not legally or morally bound to do so, and when he has no interest to protect in making such payment. A person who pays the debt of another without a request, when not legally or morally bound to do so and not in the protection of his own interest.

That's from BLACK'S, my heart goes out to painters wife, but my common sense tells me what's right.

Volunteers do not get paid for their services. Nor do they have a right to ask for any thing for their time.

If Painterswife, is tired of being a ( Volunteer ) then she needs to call the ( law or court ) and have the right things done about this horse.

If you Volunteers to put a roof on my house for free, ( including labor and materials ) don't come and ask me latter for money. I do not owe you anything.

Before someone jumps in to Volunteer they should first find out what the cost will be for them.

What if the horse had died a few days after she had it on her property. Would she have been responsible for the loss of the horse ? We don't know.

If the horse is a burden to Painterswife she should take it back. The owner owes her nothing because he did not ask you to come and get the horse, the court did.

In trying to be helpful she jumped into something without all of the facts of what her part would be.

The court may or may not have made a bad judgment call we don't know because none of us have all of the facts.

The court did not award Painterswife the horse. But I will say this, she is responsible for what ever happens to the horse. What if the horse gets out and causes damage to other people ( hurts a little child ) or their property.

Painterswife needs to find out who pays for what according to the law and not the opinions of other people. She could be sued ! ! !

None of this name calling ( like dirtbag etc. )
is got anything to do with Christianity,
or the Holy Love Of God In Christ Jesus And The Holy Spirit ! ! !

As far as this case of the Horse their has been some bad judgements made because of not having enough information ! ! ! Plain and simple ! ! !

.

Y'now, for the LIFE of me I cannot figure out what you folks are arguing about.

The man won his case, and he had every right to go and pick it up.

He never did.

It is now several months after the verdict. He still hasn't picked up the horse.

Painters wife now wants to be reimbursed for the cost of boarding the horse after the case was decided.

Does she have a case? I don't know.

I have heard PART of her side, and NONE of his side. Before ANY rights or wrongs are decided, BOTH parties would have to be able to have their say.

That isn't possible here. Presumable the local coarts, after hearing both sides, will see to it that justice is done.

When someone doesn't take care of an animal they own, I say they gave up their right to own it.

You can't just starve and neglect an animal. They should be starved an neglected for a little while. If you can torture an animal, it isn 't a far leap to do the same to people.


Look at this horse! How could someone do that to their animal?


(this is a horse from petfinder.com that is being rehabilitated, and looks alot better now, no doubt it would be dead if left in it's original "care")

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The 7th Day is still God's Sabbath
ICOG7.ORG
Layton Hollow ADGA Nubians
Taking Reservation for 2015!

Isn't that a crock? they should take it back. imagine it were you. they take your stuff with a display of force, your frightened. and now it's who knows where, spread across 5 counties??? and your expected to re-gather your stuff? And this is big, expensive stuff. and what force of resistance are you going to meet when you get there? if this mob is any indication... I would be frightened!

2nd, this man doesn't even have an arrangement with painters wife, the gov. does... when did they quit being responsible?

Now I probably would go and get my stuff, if I had to walk there and lead it back even. try at least, but God only knows if I could incure the expense. They should take the stuff back. So far those posting in behalf of painters wife have not had one legal argument to back her claim thus far, only calling the silent party (I'm sure he doesn't even read this board, thus has no way to respond, very unfair to him) ugly names.

moral of this story; don't expose yourself in a public forum if your motives appear selfish/selfserving. They violate thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not steal.

Those Laws are set in stone, man made traditions (shrewed lawyer divers means) , cannot undo them. If perchance this man is done an injustice. Then it is done.

I've nothing to gain by posting here.

that is not the horse in question.
What part of not guilty do you not understand?

What about Samson, King David, how about God?
Samson lit foxes tails on fire, David killed the lion and the bear, God? well, he drowned the whole world except for a few. Do you fear them?

Main Entry steal
Pronunciation: 'stE(&)l
Function: verb

1 a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully <stole a car> b : to take away by force or unjust means <they've stolen our liberty> c : to take surreptitiously or without permission <steal a kiss> d : to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share : make oneself the focus of <steal the show>


Now tell me WHAT part of that Painterswife is guilty of?
You keep calling HER a thief, where is your love for her? Where is your Christian compassion? Where are YOU being non judgemental?

She has NEVER SAID he couldn't have the horse back. She offered to BUY the horse from him, giving him the opportunity to keep his horse or sell it. She has been willing to give the horse back at every opportunity. Your self righteousness is getting obnoxious and you certainly aren't doing a THING to show why anyone would want to be the type of Christian you are.

__________________
Recognize the beauty in things, in creation, even when thats difficult to do.
Be loving, show compassion. Create while we're here.
Enjoy this life, be in this life but not be of it.

Superduperchickenmanon't you have brothers in your local area to help and pitch in where needed?
If not, it truly is a sad day.

Heather: My own brother is too busy with work, church, and his own family to help. He always tells me to let him know if I need anything, but when I do, he can't do it. Same with my uncle. My Dad is in another state and his girlfriend doesn't like kids, so he doesn't come much. My step-dad is working tons of hours and doesn't like animals. I figured you'd wanna do it, but I can ask around at my church. You know though, a lot of people think if you don't have lots of money, you shouldn't even have animals. If I ask around at church, I'll most likely be preached at about having animals I can't afford, without anyone volunteering to help or to take an animal off my hands.

Heather: I didn't intend to get pets, but the people who lived here before us (or somebody) left a half-starved cat here. I couldn't let her starve to death. I don't want her, but what can I do with her? I find homes for her kittens. I DO *have* to have one dog. We were losing too much stuff to theft here before I got my shep mix pup. When our van got stollen right out of our driveway, we had to do something, the most ecconomical thing we could think to do was get a dog. It's worked like a charm.

Heather: I didn't really want the hound, but my mom brought the poor starved thing to me and the kids got attached to her. Anybody want a Beagle/Dacshund mix that is sweet good with kids, but isn't doing well with the housetraining? My daughter would miss her, but would not miss scrubbing the carpet all the time. Advice?


Superduperchickenman: Give me your addresses and I'll see if I can find someone to send over there. First to check out your situation, 2nd to find out if something can be done, needs to be done.

Heather: Cool.

Superduperchickenman: Or bring it on down to my place and I'll see if I can fix it.

Heather: Bring my fence? If I could detach it without destroying it, I would probably have no problem fixing it. If you aren't too far away, I could bring the dog for you to fix. With my four kids. In my 1990 minivan that I am getting out of the shop today and hoping won't break again soon. One of the guys in my church got a new engine put in it for me, which I am deeply thankful for. It just took six months to do it and now it's getting cold outside here. It costs us twelve dollars to get anywhere and back on the city bus. We can ride in my mom's car, but there are too many of us to be seat-belted legally.

Superduperchickenman: I teach privately from the Scriptures Heather, in my home. If you would like to attend one of my classes for free, just send me a PM.

Heather: How far are you from Indiana? I would need to bring the kids. If it's too far, we'd have to have a place to stay, and to keep the dogs, and we might need to be fed.

Superduperchickenman: All the good intentions ("animal rights talk"), legal manipulations, tough talk
(threats of violence), slander, emotional attachment to the critters, does not justify breaking, any commandment.

Heather: Ya know what though, those people were just expressing their feelings and sympathizing with painterswife and you jumped all over them and her like Moses coming down off the mountain. None of them would have done the man any violence, they were upset.

Heather: God does care about animals. You know he does. He cares for the sparrow, knows when it's feet touch the ground. Granted, man is worth many sparrows, but you can't convince me that God is willing that an dumb animal should suffer abuse. That he isn't moved with compassion when he sees it. He let Balaam's ass speak in her own defense when Ballam was about to kill her. She was only trying to save his life and he beat her. God cared about her and used her to speak sense to that foolish man and I believe that he cares about starving horses. The man is much more valuable to God than his horses, but he has free will (unless you are a hard-core calvinist). The horse under his dominion has no such thing.

You, sir, are dodging.

Superduperchickenman: Even if your not Christian, by most standards withholding a man from his property is wrong. commonly refered to as stealing.

Heather: You should help this guy by transporting his horses to him. The only person you can be responsible for is yourself. If this is an injustice you feel strongly about, maybe God is calling you to step in and minister to this man.

Superduperchickenman: Now, I know why the ARM, gets upset. They have the religious zeal of any zealot. They applaud the "system" when any so called animal abuser gets punished, lament it when one is exonerated. Burn scientific labratories, pour paint on womens' clothing, invaid and destroy family farms. But it truely is a sad day when this zealotry spills over and effects the common folks to a point that they forget how to love their neighbor.

Heather: I don't have much of an idea about ARM. I do have a soft heart and suffering upsets me, be it man or animal. I don't think it's okay to pour paint on people's clothes. If using animals to test medicines is necesary, I can accept that, I just think it should be done in the most humane way possible. Invading family farms is bad, but if the family is causing a great deal of suffering to their animals, then they may want to just stick to non-animal farming. I like my meat. I would feel better about eating it if I knew that the animal had suffered as little as possible in the process. I like my leather shoes and have no problem using animals to support human life. I have a problem with cruelty and with mistreatment and suffering and unnecessary pain.

Heather: Don't you think there is a middle ground, a compromise somewhere? It doesn't have to be man has all the value and animal has none OR animal has all the value and man has none. They BOTH have value. Man has greater value, but in the Christian worldview, the leader is the servant of all and with power comes great responsibility. We have a responsibility to people, but also to animals.

BTW, I've been known to take in and feed stray people, too.

Heather

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Heather

Wherever you go, there you are.

I've got to go do some work (0'selfish me ), I'll try to get back this evening and view your post. And reply if neccessary.

luv u