Mountain lion
 

We have lived on the side of the mountain in Tennessee for 4 years. Last Sunday afternoon for the first time we heard a very large cat in the front yard. We never saw it, but the sound was unmistakable.
I called the local game warden and he said there had been no reports for years, but the local people say they are common... Cougars, Panthers, Mountain Lions... I think they are all basically the same, just go by different names. People just don't report them any more to keep the local "government" off of their property.
We know very little about these big cats. I have read some on the internet and know they are indigenous to this area. Is there any way to discourage them from coming so close to the house? We have 60 acres with dogs, cats, guineas, chickens... not to mention kids. There are caves and old coal mines at the top of the property, which I am sure makes great dens for these creatures. I'm almost afraid to go outside right now. I understand this is breeding season for them and that's probably why we heard them in the middle of the afternoon. I also know if you hear something like that in the day time it could be sick or injured and very dangerous.
Any suggestions??

Not really. If you have dogs, that will tend to keep them away. If you have little children, dont let them go outside alone! Not trying to scare you but a cat WILL think an infant is a handy size to pack around.

Small, dogs, cats, children, chickens, etc are not safe when the cats are roaming. Even you aren't, if they are ornery enough. Get some pepper spray to carry with you at all times (it can work at close range, sometimes when you can't get your gun up). And don't let those that you love outside. Keep the grass low.
And good luck. The game dept here in Ok, keeps saying we don't have them either, but there have been too many sitings.

I hadn't thought about the pepper spray... good idea. I have heard that they are protected so you can't shoot them, but what do you do when you are threatened?? I hate to carry a gun around with me all of the time, but i can do that if necessary for a while.

Pepper Spray!!! :rolleyes: Honey, get yourself down to the local gun shop and purchase a snub-nosed .38. THEN, get lessons on how to use it. Then WEAR it all the time! A rifle would be a good idea if you want to be proactive about this threat.

If the game warden comes sniffing around, remind him that he told you there were no mountain lions around.....

I have a pistol and I know how to use it. Just never had to. DH wants a shot gun for this sort of thing and I have been dragging my feet. Guess it's time to give in.

They don't oficially exist in Michigan either. Only CRAZY people see them and all the photos and videos are just wrong.

mikell

You BETCHA! I don't want to hear that you or your children met the same fate as the woman jogger in California a few years back. I'll even bet she was packin' pepper spray...Poor girl. :(

If you run into one unarmed, make yourself look large as possible. Stand on your toes, spread your jacket out with your arms and flap - anything to look as big as possible.

If they crouch and stare or move aggressively, they are coming for you. They are ungodly fast. Get some rocks or a sticks and put up a fight. Run, and you are toast.

Keep you play area cleared back some distance so you can see anything coming.

Oh - they usually come at you from above - they prefer to pounce on unsuspecting prey. Look up and around when hiking.

Small children look like mcnuggets to them. Don't let them out of your sight. If one does grab a child, pursue and attack with whatever you can pickup(if you are unarmed) - confronted with danger, they will usually drop the prey and run.

If I was certain they were around, I would stay armed with something when out and about. Most of all, pay attention to your surroundings and what might be lurking.

Yep. 12 guage with high velocity slugs. This is NOT a critter you want to mess around with.

As someone else mentioned, if the cat attacks while you are unarmed, FIGHT BACK! Hikers in WA state and CA have successfully fought off cougar attacks. Successfully meaning they weren't eaten for lunch or killed, they did have some serious injuries.

I'd be making sure all of the animals are behind fences and walls that were as tight and secure as I could make them. Either cover the tops of the fences with woven wire or get rid of overhanging branches and trees. Cover barn windows with woven wire. Basically make it so darned difficult to get anything to eat around your place that the cat moves on to somewhere with easier pickings.

Since they do prefer to jump on unsuspecting pray, it's rare for even seasoned backwoods people to see them coming. That makes guns very hard to use. Carrying a good hunting knife in a sheath that is strapped within reach on your body might be a better idea. Of the cougar attacks I have read about those with a knife they were able to get to had a better chance.

Grandma

Yep there here, have been for a while.The way i under stand it there not endangered here because they are not recognized as exsisting here. ;)
And as i understand it you can shoot if you feel threated regardless!
12 gauge,modified chock for alittle distance and a good pattern i general,and 3inch double 00 buck does a nice job on deer should do so on cat as well.Slug if more distance is needed.But if its out more than buck shot distance i dought its any threat and i wouldn't take a chance on wounding it.A wounded one would be very dangours to every one in the area.Shot to kill or let live.We always chose the live and let live policy.Since they never bothered anything. And they like the indians where here before us. ;)
They usually tend to try and stay away from people if at all possible.But dont appear to be very scared if you keep your distance.Never the less they have never bothered anything here.Here unlike other areas there is plenty prey for them.

Dixie: I sent you a PM. ;) Hope i did anyway.If it didn't go threw please let me no.

Hey we even have them here in Ontario, why is it that government officials don't want to acknowledge their exsitance, I mean in the last ten years or so alot of animals/birds have been on the rise so why not the big cats too, it only makes sense that the turn around in pestiside/herbicide use in our two countrys would make these increases possible. What is to gain by denying their population increase or repopulation?

Heres a link to sightings all over. Yes thats me there also. ;)
http://www.cryptozoology.com/forum/forum.php

Scroll down to the big cats section.

I had a friend who used to run a dude ride up in Red Rock Canyon (Nevada) and he started having trouble with a moutain lion. He set up what he called flash caps. they were set up on some sort of trip device (or something), when it was tripped a flash cap would go off. they were basically like oversized blanks. the caps didn't do any harm to the animals but would put out a bright flash and the blasting sound was loud enough to scare anything away.....of course they were set out far enough from the horses that it didn't freak them out. After about a week the Lion gave up and went hunting elsewhere.
Unfortunately, my friend passed on about a year ago, or else I'd ask him about it for you, but maybe somebody knows what I'm talking about and can give you better info.

I live in Mountain Lion country. Our local paper this past week told of three sightings within about 2 miles of my house. We're on 22 acres, the top of which is heavily forested. We've been here about 18 months and have not seen any lions, but our neighbors have. They have a range of 100 square miles and some have been recorded as traveling as far as 700 miles. From what I've read, they don't usually stay in one place, but travel with the deer. And if you have deer, chances are you have lions.

I'm scared to death of them. Won't go out at night without the dog. I will say I've never had any problem with them - not messing with my goats or anything. All of our neighbors have horses and cattle and haven't had any problems either. But my little girl is not permitted outside alone, and certainly never at night.

Most of us have them around and just never see them.

In the past 100 years in California, there have only been 6 attacks. Considering the state is crawling with mountain lions, that's not many.

you might consider inviting some local bobcat hunters to hunt on your property, preferably dog hunters so the cats will learn to fear the sound of a dog even if they don't get killed.

A friend of mine's sister/sister-in-law was attacked and killed by a cougar a little over a year ago in Arkansas while she was in the frontyard running a weedeater. They are predators and killers and will jump you from behind. Go armed or don't go out. The GF&P there said there are none in the state but paw prints taken by the body were cougar prints and so was the fur found nearby. Pops2 has a good idea to think about.

We have had a very great trial with Mountain Lions. As shepherds of angora goats in Umpqua National Forest we nearly lost half our herd to lions in daylight hours two years in a row. The trial was fierce. We found an answer. I hope it helps.
Please go to: http://www.singingfalls.com/alexandr...s/catland.html for a description of some of what we have been through.
Also: http://www.singingfalls.com/alexandr...the%20LGD.html concerning Uzi's replacement.
Please excuse the blatant self image but it is hard earned.
http://www.singingfalls.com/xpage/catman.jpg

Ox, your story of the mountain lions and the poem about Uzi are fascinating reads. Please, what happened to Uzi? You just said he left you. In the poem Ghost of Drew..who is Drew? Thank you for sharing with us.
P.S. Does anyone know if they're any mountain lions in KY? I have heard only a few reports of sightings, and they were'nt very convincing.

"Officer, I believed I was in immediate risk of death."

A useful phrase, that, I hear...

The only potentially useful advice I can add is trust your instincts. I have a resident mountain lion who I've spotted eight times to date. I know where he lives (a big pile of rocks in the densest part of the lot) and I don't go near there unarmed. Half the times I've spotted him, I realized he was there because all the hairs on my neck suddenly stood on end. I can't explain how that works, but if I start feeling like prey, I pay attention. If you get an odd sensation, don't ignore it.

For the moment, we have an unspoken truce - he can eat all the deer and trespassers he likes and as long as he sticks to that I'll let him be ;). I sure wouldn't let any kids around though.

Bill

Dogs will NOT tend to keep big cats away!

Read goatlady's post above - I know the same folks - they had dogs and the cat still attacked.

We've had a bobcat within 20' of the house - I saw the tracks on the tractor hood - and we've got two dogs. (Earlier in the night I had shot a possum that was bothering the critters, threw it into the tractor's bucket, and raised it so the dogs wouldn't get it. In the morning - I found no possum and bobcat tracks on the tractor's hood.)

We've also spotted a cougar about 200 yards from the house.

Needless to say, I don't go very far from the house unarmed at night.

It's a heavy fine in Arkansas if you kill a non-existent cougar ... but I've got a backhoe and a bunch of lime handy!

.

;) Yep. "Aint no cats around these parts"

.

Drew is a once thriving logging town in the midst of spotted owl country. It is no longer incorporated. Uzi (guardian in Hebrew) had an early demise as a result of torsion (gut twisting). The poem , "Ghost of Drew" is about Mogen (shield in Hebrew), our new LGD

Ox

I didn't know that was what the name Uzi meant. I wonder if the firearm company was named after a person (this was what I had always assumed) who happened to be named Uzi or if the name was deliberately chosen for it's significance?



Your story/photo reminded me of a passage in 1 Samuel 17


"But David said to Saul, "Your servant has been keeping his father's sheep. When a lion or a bear came and carried off a sheep from the flock, I went after it, struck it and rescued the sheep from its mouth. When it turned on me, I seized it by its hair, struck it and killed it. Your servant has killed both the lion and the bear..."

:) To all of us who live in cougar and bear country, don't get all excited about this. Yes, they are out there. Yes, rarely they will attack a person. Yes, they will sometimes carry off and eat a dog. Count up how many people get seriously injured(or killed) by lightning, serial killers, bees and the family dog each year, then add in the automobile and you have little reason to be scared. Cougar attacks are waaaaayy down the list!

That doesn't mean you shouldn't PAY ATTENTION though and use common sense. I am carefull not to walk by the river at night or early morning or late evening. I like to go out and star watch at night, especially in the winter. I take both dogs with me...they are a very good early warning system, and a heavy flashlight and a loud whistle. Cats hate those. I don't let the worries of getting struck by lightning worry me or the wild life either. When we live in rural areas it's just part of life. Chances are cougars have been around all the time, you've just not seen/heard them before. ;)

I count myself lucky to get a look at a track or see a glimpse of the actual cat or bear.

If this worries you, move to the city.


LQ

Many years ago, while motoring in my VW bug in the mountains of northern California, I rounded a curve and there was a cougar cub right in front of me. I hit it doing about 50; the front bumper smacked it, then it thumped its way underneath the car, front to back

I stopped and went back to it, and the cat, which weighed maybe 30-40 lbs, was stretched out and looked like he'd been poleaxed -- which of course he'd just been. Deader'n a doornail.

A guy stopped and suggested I take it down to a ranger station nearby. He helped me toss the cat into the trunk and I drove to the station.

I found a smokey and told him I had a surprise for him. We went to the trunk and when I opened it, out leaped this tan tornado that flew between the two of us, missing our hides by inches, and that "dead" cat was off and gone into the trees in an instant. Good thing smokey had a sense of humor.

I'd hate to tangle with a grown up version of something that tough.

There's been a confirmed cat in my neighborhood recently and now when I go on my morning walk, the old .38 tags along, at least for moral support if nothing else.

bruce

OX, that is a wonderful description & poem!
I am in CA, & there are cougars in our neighborhood - never bothered us, our sheep, or poultry, as I also run livestock guardian dogs with my animals. It makes a big difference what kind of dogs you have though - not just any can do the job, you need one of the flock guard breeds, I think. My breed of choice is the Anatolian Shepherd, which I have used as flockguards for over 20 years. Most of the time, you don't actually see the dogs do anything, but you know they are working, because there are no varmint problems. A few years ago, right at dawn one morning, I did see my current pair of LGDs dispatch a bobcat that got into one of the sheep paddocks - the little yearling bitch cornered him against the fence, & the adult dog just sort of grabbed him across the back & crushed his spine & lungs. I came running when I heard the horrible noise, but even though the bobcat was thrashing & clawing at the dog, I think he couldn't really reach him too well, & the dogs were in winter coat. Not a mark on either dog.
Some neighbors run a pair of Great Pyrenees with their flock of 100+ llamas.
Here is one of my dogs, with some lambs:
http://www.shahbazinanatolianshepher...es/simlamb.jpg

Over here slightly west of Nashville, I've been seeing mountain lions a few times a year (for the last 3 years), yet whenever I told one of the neighbors, they'd just laugh and say "yeah, right".

I saw all sizes, little to big. Finally, our neighbor had a couple of men working on a fence on our mutual property border. A cat came up and they just sort of froze and looked at it. Then it growled and, I guess made some sort of aggressive move. Those 2 men jumped up a tree at the speed of light.

Now, that fencing material is still sitting out there. It's been a couple of weeks. Guess they ain't coming back.

And of course the game warden says they don't exist around here, but if they do and you shoot it (and get caught), you get a big fine.

..but I'm not going to show any mercy if one comes around here near my kids.

I'll reiterate the point made earlier that it shouldn't be illegal to shoot even an endangered animal if you are defending yourself. Granted there's no guarantee of not being prosecuted, but one instance recently in California (probably one of the likeliest states to want to prosecute people who kill endangered animals makes me think it unlikely...a couple of teenage turkey hunters shot and killed a lion that was stalking them and were not charged.

Here in Texas it's perfectly legal whether or not you're being attacked, but the state department of parks and wildlife wants you to report it to them immediately if it occurs. Those of you who live in certain other states might want to consider the "3 S's"

Shoot, Shovel, Shut up.

as i covered on the subject in the pig forum, if the big cats get harrassed by dog hunters on a regular basis they will avoid dogs & people like the plague. in fact cat attacks are highest in primarily in CA (where dogging has been illegal for over a decade) & rising in states where dogging has been banned.
if you can legally intentionally run them in your state then find some local lion hunters to deal w/ them. if you can't, then find some local bobcat hunters that don't mind "accidentally" running them in exchange for permission to run legal game.

You won't catch me going out alone in lion country anymore. I guess if I had to, I would be sure to carry pepper spray and a buck knife. They have taken down and eaten a few women and even men in their prime. Do not underestimate this predator.

King Uzziah = "Yah is my guardian". The weapon is actually called the UZI - the Guardian. The Israeli military is called the Israeli Defense Force rather than army. The idea is one of a position of defense and protection rather than aggression.

In our forest the lion is the King. Almost their entire anatomy is for one purpose - predation. They are powerful and sly and they are called "The Ghost" for good reason. I have heard many of their cries. One of their sounds is very similar to a woman screaming only much louder. With it they seek to manipulate the prey to a more convenient place to die. I have seen them in broad day light nobly walking across the field, unafraid of me, the oxen or anything else. My neighbor's had two dogs eaten off their leashes. And another neighbor lost a 1500 lb mule to a cat. Since we have acquired a LDG (several years now) we have not had a single loss to the felines. Hence none of the cats have been killed here from that time. Works for us.
They sure give our dog a very hard time though. In the night I often hear him working. When it sounds intense I go outside and speak loudly and things calm down.

Big cats will predate just about anything, including humans (children preferred).
My best advice is to get hold of whatever shoulder fired artillery will do the job and send that sucker to the "happy hunting ground". You don't need any cougars around. Nor do you need any wolves, like they've been turning loose here in New Mexico. Don't worry about any laws "protecting" these animals. If necessary "shoot, shovel and shut up".

When we homesteaded in NC we were also told there's no mountain lions around there either; that they were all up further on the mountain. We lost a goat to one and scared us to death when we saw it!! Turned out they were logging up the mountain and the mountain lion had no where to go but down -- where no one ever saw them before! So don't ever trust the local talk. If they are anywhere in the area, the possibility exists. Also shooting one is darn hard. Boy those things are fast!!!! :eek:

Ox & Stand waite
the designer of the Uzi submachinegun, & machine pistol & the Galil service rifle is Uziel Galil. Uzi is actually his nickname the meaning of the word is a lucky but very advantageous coincidence.

When I first joined this forum, there was a thread concerning cougars. One of the members lost a sister. You might check the archives. As for the authorities, if they acknowledge cougars (panthers, mtn lion, same thing) are in the area, they must come up with a wild life management plan for the critter. This takes time and money for an agency already strapped. I had a friend that was hiking. He saw one in a tree ready to pounce on his son and shot it. He got a fine because he used a hand gun!

I was drawn for a deer tag this year. The hunting reports for the area I will be hunting in state that the deer population is down due to an increased lion population. Further reading states that a lion needs about three deer a week to stay in groceries. They eat their fill, cover the remainder with leaves and branches and return for further meals until the meat starts to spoil then seek a new kill. I can't help but have a healthy respect for an animal of that size packing that much power. I did buy a lion tag and hunting them is encouraged. Seems like man trying to manage the balance of nature is not a perfect science but at least the Fish & Game people here acknowledge the problem openly and encourage people to hunt. Anyway, this is just information I came across recently and I thought I would share it.