"Welcome to The Patriot Act"

uyk7 · #81 03/27/08, 04:08 PM

"I would think that there would be many people who have first hand accounts (or even second hand accounts) of these infringements."

If the law allows it then someone at some time will use it for their advantage.

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"If those who argue so vehemently against it, would also argue with equal passion against other vast intrusions into American Liberty, such as Medicare, Medicaid, the burgeoning welfare system, farm subsidies and hiring quotas."

Many of us have. Doesn't mean that we don't have to stop trying to change anything else that infringes on personal liberties.

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"All I can say is the last time the US tried to bring democracy to a country that "needed" it, the whole thing ended badly (Vietnam War or as they call in over there the American War)."

Actually we took over from the French.

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"The ones that scream the loudest are those that would deny all of our freedoms, if they could just dis arm us and turn us into dependent slaves."

Sorry, I disagree. I "scream" pretty loud but I want more freedoms for everyone.

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Up North Louie · #82 03/27/08, 04:52 PM

Take this to GC.

There is no good reason to hijack this forum. It's for practicalities, not politics.

You can say politics are practical, and I agree, but the place for them is GC.

Not here.

Go where the pot-stirring is cultivated. Here it is a weed.

Don

FarmerGreen · #83 03/27/08, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Up North Louie

Take this to GC.

There is no good reason to hijack this forum. It's for practicalities, not politics.

You can say politics are practical, and I agree, but the place for them is GC.

Not here.

Go where the pot-stirring is cultivated. Here it is a weed.

Don

No one forced you to click on this topic and read it. Just read what you want to. I'm glad I saw it here, I rarely go to GC.

**highlands** · #84 03/27/08, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

So you in the Taliban or what. I don't have anything to hide, so i don't care. We are living in a diffewrent world now and we have to accept that. AMERICA, love it or leave it.

There is nothing unpatriotic about being offended at the erosion of our Constitutional rights and freedoms. This is America, love it and protect it. Kill the unPatriot Act.

Ramblin Wreck · #85 03/27/08, 07:39 PM

I've always called it "The rolling over in their graves Patriot act".

TNHermit · #86 03/27/08, 08:05 PM

I think some one should report this thread to the mods. " There are a bunch of AMERICANS arguing here" Wonder how many other countries would allow such a thing.

FarmerGreen · #87 03/27/08, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNHermit

I think some one should report this thread to the mods. " There are a bunch of AMERICANS arguing here" Wonder how many other countries would allow such a thing.

LOL! Free speech in progress... call the authorities!

Sabrina67 · #88 03/27/08, 10:08 PM

Highlands. You said it perfectly.

billy · #89 03/27/08, 10:39 PM

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
by Thomas Jefferson

Wilbur · #90 03/27/08, 10:58 PM

How many American citizens have actually been arrested under the Patriot Act? Can anyone cite the stats. It has been on the books for 6 and a half years (October 26, 2001). We must have hundreds of people in jail if not thousands for all the horrible things I have heard and read about it....lets see some lists. Where is 60 Minutes? Dateline? I would think they would be running a constant crawl of imprisoned Americans on CNN by now.

Its funny how quick people are to scream about the Patiot Act which they say COULD be an infringement of our rights yet those same people don't seem to care about the very real ACT of "infringement" of citizens' rights at Waco and Ruby Ridge. But I guess its not popular to discuss how our government killed its citizens when it was carried out by a Democratic president. Its only evil when a Republican is in the White House.

PyroDon · #91 03/27/08, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolly

I for one, am not in favor of debating with unregistered debators, especially those who frame their argument by espousing a quote that Benjamin Franklin never wrote, or uttered! In fact, Franklin denied said writing in 1760 in a letter to Hume.

I would suggest your read poor richards alminac which was indeed written by Franklin , he repeated this more than once in his writings. he may not have written it by 1760 but he sure did later

billy · #92 03/27/08, 11:24 PM

I can totally see where you are coming from, Wilbur. I actually detest both the Bush administration and the Clinton administration. BOTH have subverted the U.S. Constitution that they swore to uphold. This, to me, makes both Bush and Clinton TRAITORS. I prefer conservatives, but haven`t seen the real deal in way too long.

PyroDon · #93 03/27/08, 11:29 PM

Read the book and take note there are many others covering the same subject
this is a long video but a wake up call none the less

Wanderer0101 · #94 03/28/08, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilbur

How many American citizens have actually been arrested under the Patriot Act? Can anyone cite the stats. It has been on the books for 6 and a half years (October 26, 2001). We must have hundreds of people in jail if not thousands for all the horrible things I have heard and read about it....lets see some lists. Where is 60 Minutes? Dateline? I would think they would be running a constant crawl of imprisoned Americans on CNN by now.

Its funny how quick people are to scream about the Patiot Act which they say COULD be an infringement of our rights yet those same people don't seem to care about the very real ACT of "infringement" of citizens' rights at Waco and Ruby Ridge. But I guess its not popular to discuss how our government killed its citizens when it was carried out by a Democratic president. Its only evil when a Republican is in the White House.

I did see a report on Fox of one guy, that's ONE guy that was wrongfully arrested and spent two weeks in jail under one of the provisions of the Patriot Act. He was released, then he sued, then he got two million dollars for his trouble. I'd do two weeks for two million. Wonder where you sign up?

fishhead · #95 03/28/08, 12:39 PM

And just exactly how does one go about finding out who's been secretly arrested and rendered out of the country? Local newspaper?

fishhead · #96 03/28/08, 12:42 PM

Pretty soon this thread will be encased in a "free speech zone" surrounded by barbed wire and cameras.

I call the Patriot Act the Citizens Surveilience Act.

wstevenl · #97 03/28/08, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Jack

Try reading the rest of the qoute or have someone read it to you.

Protect the country from what? Are we really afraid that terrorists and their huge armies are going to come across the great oceans and take over our country? Ever wonder how many fewer recruits the terrorist would be able to get if we weren't building bases all over the world? I don't think our country is going to be lost to some stupid terrorist, but we could spend ourselves to death chasing shadows out in the desert for the next 100years.

Wanderer0101 · #98 03/28/08, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

And just exactly how does one go about finding out who's been secretly arrested and rendered out of the country? Local newspaper?

Since the Democrats love investigating anything connected with the Patriot Act and both the CIA and the State Department leak like a sieve it'll be headline news in the New York Times and on CNN if there's even an inkling of such an event.

kinderfeld · #99 03/28/08, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qvrfullmidwife

BTW...many protest mightily about the excesses and dangers of teh PA. As something so heinous and overly used to great detriment, I would think that there would be many people who have first hand accounts (or even second hand accounts) of these infringements. Instead we hear of coulds and shoulds and any actual accounts seem to be related to anecdote or the exception to the rule whereby someone who has, by questionable or illegal behavior, drawn attention to themselves.

While, there are accounts of these infringements, this is one of the problems with the PA. The govt. doesn't have to report them.

kinderfeld · #**100** 03/28/08, 04:43 PM

By BOB KERR
The Providence Journal
2006-02-28 00:00:00

PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- Walter Soehnge is a retired Texas schoolteacher who traveled north with his wife, Deana, saw summer change to fall in Rhode Island and decided this was a place to stay for a while.

So the Soehnges live in Scituate now and Walter sometimes has breakfast at the Gentleman Farmer in Scituate Village, where he has passed the test and become a regular despite an accent that is definitely not local.

And it was there, at his usual table last week, that he told me that he was "madder than a panther with kerosene on his tail."

He says things like that. Texas does leave its mark on a man.

What got him so upset might seem trivial to some people who have learned to accept small infringements on their freedom as just part of the way things are in this age of terror-fed paranoia. It's that "everything changed after 9/11" thing.

But not Walter.

"We're a product of the '60s," he said. "We believe government should be way away from us in that regard."

He was referring to the recent decision by him and his wife to be responsible, to do the kind of thing that just about anyone would say makes good, solid financial sense.

They paid down some debt. The balance on their JCPenney Platinum MasterCard had gotten to an unhealthy level. So they sent in a large payment, a check for $6,522.

And an alarm went off. A red flag went up. The Soehnges' behavior was found questionable.

And all they did was pay down their debt. They didn't call a suspected terrorist on their cell phone. They didn't try to sneak a machine gun through customs.

They just paid a hefty chunk of their credit card balance. And they learned how frighteningly wide the net of suspicion has been cast.

Read the rest here.
http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cf...ALARM-02-28-06