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  #21  
Old 08/24/04, 11:09 PM
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
I would not advise concealing covering up and dumping on an unwary sucker that is not only unethical it could even be ilegal. most states have laws regarding concealing known problems. rather than do something unscrupulous that can come back and bite you, i would simply walk away. is a quick buck worth looking over your shoulder for?
I did not say this. If he has a licensed engineer look at the situation, design a fix, submit stamped drawings to the county, get a permit (assuming that the county requires it) and have a licensed contractor fix it to plan then the problem is fixed and you most likely (depends on the state) do not have to disclose it because there is no problem, it is fixed.

Lots of houses have major problems and those problems are fixed and the house is sold some time down the road.

If flipping this house met all my requirements I would have no problem buying, fixing and selling it.

I am talking about doing everything legally.
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  #22  
Old 08/25/04, 05:39 AM
Unregistered-1427815803
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Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajoys
I did not say this. If he has a licensed engineer look at the situation, design a fix, submit stamped drawings to the county, get a permit (assuming that the county requires it) and have a licensed contractor fix it to plan then the problem is fixed and you most likely (depends on the state) do not have to disclose it because there is no problem, it is fixed.

Lots of houses have major problems and those problems are fixed and the house is sold some time down the road.

If flipping this house met all my requirements I would have no problem buying, fixing and selling it.

I am talking about doing everything legally.
you did say that repairing would mean no need to disclose i don't agree i think you are required to disclose major problems even though repaired in some or several states. i agree don't break the law you may also want to consult a title insurance company or an attorny prior to committing to get a better idea of exactly what disclosure laws are in the state before comitting. You can usually also read the actual statute at many libraries or possibly at you city county or state seats. it would be unethical not to disclose both the problem and repairs involved and in my state also illegal. we are required to disclose any major problems we know about as well as the corrections known to prospective buyers. some people avoid by selling problem houises at auction with an "as is" sale which include a warning that some or several undisclosed problems may exist.
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  #23  
Old 08/25/04, 08:23 AM
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,274
Ajoys is correct.

If you believe you fixed a problem, whatever it is, termites, failing foundation, etc. you do not have to disclose it. Even if the way it was fixed was not correct. It's only illegal if it is still a problem and you know it.

For a future buyer to win a claim that you did not disclose a problem, they must prove you knew about the problem and hid it. If you have receipts and or records that indicate it was fixed, they cannot touch you, unless they have good evidence you knew it was still broken.

This means the buyer would have to find the knowledgable person that told you it was bad, and get that person to testify against you or produce documents that prove the point. It almost never happens.

The only situation I have seen where the owner was caught was related to cat damage. When the seller showed the house, the windows were open, cookies in the oven, and a new carpet. During the contract phase, the buyer noticed and mentioned a slight cat odor, but the buyers efforts to hide the odor kept it from being a big issue. As soon as the buyer moved in and realized how bad the odor really was they went back to the realtor. They called me to fix the problem. I insisted on up front money (lesson learned the hard way). The owner said no. Lawyers were contacted, the real estate agent put up the money for repairs and collected from the seller later. It didn't go to court because the realtor knew they would lose.
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  #24  
Old 08/25/04, 01:34 PM
Unregistered-1427815803
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Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobug
Ajoys is correct.

If you believe you fixed a problem, whatever it is, termites, failing foundation, etc. you do not have to disclose it. Even if the way it was fixed was not correct. It's only illegal if it is still a problem and you know it.

For a future buyer to win a claim that you did not disclose a problem, they must prove you knew about the problem and hid it. If you have receipts and or records that indicate it was fixed, they cannot touch you, unless they have good evidence you knew it was still broken.

This means the buyer would have to find the knowledgable person that told you it was bad, and get that person to testify against you or produce documents that prove the point. It almost never happens.

The only situation I have seen where the owner was caught was related to cat damage. When the seller showed the house, the windows were open, cookies in the oven, and a new carpet. During the contract phase, the buyer noticed and mentioned a slight cat odor, but the buyers efforts to hide the odor kept it from being a big issue. As soon as the buyer moved in and realized how bad the odor really was they went back to the realtor. They called me to fix the problem. I insisted on up front money (lesson learned the hard way). The owner said no. Lawyers were contacted, the real estate agent put up the money for repairs and collected from the seller later. It didn't go to court because the realtor knew they would lose.
so as long as the house is in colorado and the law hasn't changed i am sure you are right. I would still ask the tittle company and make sure you understand disclosure laws that apply to the property in question before making a decision also understand laws can change any day so you may want to act rather quickly. stll sounds unethical to me i couldn't do it. i would disclose just so it couldn't come back on me. If you are convinced the repair was adequate your buyer should be as well. Most tittle companies understand realestate transaction laws about as well as the attorneys. A major repair such as that will involve permits so a dated trail should not be to hard to establish.
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  #25  
Old 08/25/04, 10:20 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 19
It's interesting to read the discussion about whether or not we will have to disclose that repairs have been done on the foundation of a house we might buy and later sell. I'll try here to settle some of the debate.

I'm in Missouri and cannot recall from the real estate classes I took over 10 years ago if disclosure falls under state or federal laws, but I'll quote the disclosure form used in this area at this time:
"CONSTRUCTION
(a) Are you aware of any problems with the footing, foundation walls, sub-floor, interior and exterior walls, roof construction, decks/porches or other load bearing components? __ Yes __ No If "yes" please describe in detail. _______________________
(b) Are you aware of any repairs to any of the building elements listed in (a) above? __ Yes __ No If "yes" please describe the location, extent, date and name of the person/company who did the repair or control effort. ______________________"

So yes, if we buy this house and later sell it, we will have to disclose all we know of problems and repairs. I don't see that as a big problem.

Whether we buy and re-hab this house or any other, I want to keep records and photos of everything. Reminders of what we have actually accomplished may help us when we're feeling the strain of work and more work. I'm sure we will someday laugh at and learn from our mishaps. And whether we or our heirs sell the property, a scrap book full of notes, receipts and photos says alot better things about a property than a disclosure statement full of "unknown". Some of the disclosure statements I've read make me wonder how ignorance people can be about their own homes - I put next to no faith in them.

The engineer will look at the foundation tomorrow and we'll see what happens from there.
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