Do I have enough room?
 

So I was wondering if 160 acres is enough room to have holsteins, khaki Campbell and pekin ducks, rabbits, dairy and meat breed goats, sheep, royal palm Turkeys (maybe a different heritage breed), donkeys, quail or pigeons, possibly some kind of fish, and maybe a beef cattle breed, a garden, a house, and the feed the animals need during the winter? So I guess what I'm asking is am I shooting to high or is this within reach?

By the way I'm in Minnesota.

Oh! And maybe hogs

Room enough for all those kinds of animals, yes. But if you want 50 of each, no. Winter feed is the real question. Depending on if it is 160 acres of forest or perfect ready to make hay fields means a huge difference in carrying capacity.

Can you bale your own hay?

From what I see it will depend on how your property is set up and how much time and $ you have. I have a similar size farm and we have a small herd of cattle that we rotationally graze, a fairly large flock of laying hens, rabbits, pigs, broiler chicks in the warmer months, a high tunnel for our garden and a few goats. This keeps us very busy. The infrastructure will be key. As each year ticks by you will hopefully become more efficient and spend less time doing one thing. Our property is half woods and half pasture. Start out slow and add as you go and become comfortable with what you have. I'm also I'm MN.

Well...yeah I can bale, as soon as I fix my tractor and at the moment it is all tall grass, and I think it has water on it,(it's the land across from me and it just went on the market a month ago) and I basically trying to be able to support a few families in the case of a disaster.

It completely depends on the land productivity and how many animals you are talking about, fencing situation, machinery availability, what you are feeding the animals. I will assume the ducks are not gunna be fed hay? lol.

I think the question is pretty obscure. It is hard to answer an obscure question...With all due respect.

I think I would start small, work my way into it, and see how it goes. Don't bite off more than you can chew.

I would say no even if the land was in prime condition. I'm talking specifically about the soil. Here native grass requires 10-15 acres per head just for pasture.

Probably like 5 holstein cows, one holstein bull (same with the beef breeds if I got those), 5 to 10 dairy goats, and one male, if I did meat goats it would be the same, two mammoth jack donkeys, 25 to 50 ducks(that would be both breeds combined number) sheep would be 10 to 15, 15 to 20 pigeons or quail 25 to 40 chickens,like 5 to 10 . Rabbit females and one male, 10 to 15 turkeys, if I went for pigs it would be 2 to three sows and 1 male(boer I believe?) and I don't know about fish yet. And the poultry could have grain off of the hay, and mealworms or earthworms I could raise for them, I would want the garden to be 3 to 5 acres, I would also plant a few trees for shade out in the animals pasture, I would be feeding the animals hay, maybe some grain like I would the poultry, and the hogs and poultry could get my leftovers, I'll try to get info on land productivity tomorrow, and what do you mean by "fencing situation"

And of course there would be their offsprings for meat and and market

You can maximize your pastures with rotation grazing but I'm curious why you would want two jacks? They don't usually make good guard animals and many have been known to kill calves, kids and lambs.

Back in the day 160 acres was a nice sized place for a dairy farm with 30 cows or so.
Running a few dual purpose cows like Normandes instead of a bunch of different cow types would leave room for most of the other stuff.
3 to 5 acres of garden is quite a bit and with all the animals you want to have running around the labor needed to operate this utopia will be large.

Why not get a beef bull to breed to your Holstein cows? Dairy Bulls are notoriously dangerous and you will to do something with the Holstein calves anyway.

Well, probably that's enough acreage, but please consider carefully the amount of time and funds needed to properly care for so many animals. Many of those named should not be housed together. Some cannot eat foods designed for others safely. For instance, ducks shouldn't eat laying mash or commercial chicken feed. Birds and small animals are often best served by protective fencing all around, including overhead. Large animals need vet care. Keeping bedding, barns, sheds, cages and waterers clean can be daunting. Etc., etc., Etc. Everything takes longer and costs more than you may estimate.

Its plenty to get started.

Your plan is terribly over complicated, in emergency you just need food, not the variaty you list!

But 160 acres will feed a fair amount of grazing animals. Putting up feed for winter is your challenge, you will be a busy man in summer!

Paul

Really? I was told donkeys were great guard animals, . And I'm probably going to do rotational grazing,

I'm thinking I will go with a dual purpose breed, and the garden plan I have is based on a system that you have to plant it, and then do nothing but harvest for 30 years,

I . Didn't know dairy bulls are any more dangerous than beef bulls. I know that ducks can not eat that, but I know someone that keeps chickens on corn and oats and they lay fine, I plan having the poultry on mixed grains table scraps and during the winter earthworms or mealworms, I've decided I'm not going to raise hogs, for the fact that feeding them in the winter will be nearly impossible, I know about the vet costs, and keeping everything clean will be horrible, and I know it will take a long time and money that I'm gonna find a way to come up with...slowly but surely

Well, what I mean by fencing, is you are going to need LOTS of it to be efficient and keep the animals separate and alive, and safe from predators. You also will want to have several paddocks for each animal group, so you can rotate the pastures. One can produce a LOT of hay from 10 acres, if you fertilize it and keep the soil fed and productive. But you mentioned wanting to grow your own feed. What will you feed the ducks in winter? The turkeys? What about the high producing dairy animals? What about flushing the sheep at breeding time and keeping them in good shape in late pregnancy?

My point is, you will be needing some concentrates for feed as well. As in grains. Do you have machinery at all? How would you plan to grow and harvest grain on your land?

Well planned, 160 acres in Minnesota, would handle a lot of animals. But it needs to be well planned. That is why I said your question was obscure... It is complicated and needs a lot of fencing. Water sources. Machinery. If you are really desiring to raise all your own feed, machinery will be needed, unless you are going to bring it in from elsewhere, or short the animals at high demand times of the year, by avoiding grains. Some think grains are the debbil, and insist on grass only. In Minnesota, that is gunna be tough to raise ducks and dairy, and turkeys, relying on grass only.

Just lots to think about.

And I'm assuming by grain you mean corn and soybeans? Because I honestly don't have a problems with that, I just would like to use as little as possible, oh and there is someone who has beef cattle around me and they are really tame, could I get those and milk them?

No. I am meaning any grain: barley, wheat, peas, oats. And yes, soy and corn. All make good feed, and are the basis of many animal animal diets.

Feeding animals only grass and hay year round, in a cold climate is very, very hard to do with any level of efficiency and good health for the animals. Yes, you can keep them alive, but they simply will not produce the milk, eggs, and meat they would if they are fed strategically, with imported or home grown concentrates.

A good example is goats for milk and sheep for lamb production. There is only so much room in a sheeps rumen when they are heavy with lambs. If you short them at that point, expect light weight lambs with poor vigor and health issues.

If you feed the goats only hay, do not expect stellar milk production, and animals with long term longevity and efficiency.

If you want hens to survive cold winters, whether they are producing eggs or not, they need good quality, high protein feed.

Hope that helps a bit.

Yup, you could milk any breed. The dairy animals are just bred for higher production. When I was a kid, we ate our dairy steers, even though they were not bred for it. It was still awesome beef. For you, using one type, may simplify it a lot! Jersey and holstein meat, is still looked at as excellent beef. So you have a couple cows say for milking, and eat their calves. Best of both worlds.

But if you are having milking goats already, you don't really need a cow. Are you planning to kind of live of the produce, or sell some as well? Cuz that changes everything... ;)

It gets pretty cold here in Northern Lower Michigan.
This is very late March and it was 1.9 F here this morning when I got up.
The farm I buy all of our beef from only feeds "hay" year around. Never any grains at all. Their hay fields are not like the standard Alfalfa Bromegrass hay.
Just driving by any of their fields I can see at least six different crops not only on the fields with the cattle on them but also on the fields they cut and bale to feed in the Winter.
It could be done anywhere if you build your fields right.

I purposely left out beef. They are pretty easy to raise without a bunch of grain...

I am curious though, what the cattle are out in the fields feeding on with six different crops in the mix? A lot of guys here use grazing corn for example.. Most hay is made up of several species of forage.

I am curious too.
Next time I see the gal I will be picking up 20 pounds of ground beef.
I will ask her to tell me what is in those fields.
I am sure if I stopped and walked up to the edge of one of those fields I would see even more crops on the field.
There ain't no corn fed to those cows.
I am a couple years from getting milk goats and I need to set up a patch like they have.

I basically want some beef, but I figure I may as well sell some milk if I'm going to have cattle, but no I really would like to have the ability to be self sufficient, and I'm assuming you have cows, so what breed do you have? And how do you like them?

Nope, no cows. We are sheep people. We want goats, but every time we go to buy one, we find out it is poorly bred, etc..

IF I had cattle, I honestly would go jersey for the milk, butter and cream. And eat the calves. And have a non jersey bull. I am biased. As a kid we always had many jersey cows to milk.

But we look at goats only because we have sheep fencing anyway, and could never use all the milk a cow produces. We also like smaller sized animals. Kinda biased so far. Per acre, we find also that sheep are more efficient at producing meat.

Do they do a lot of winter grazing then? I always envy areas that can do that!!!

Have you checked into the laws about selling milk in your area?

Yes I have a little bit, it is legal in Minnesota as long as you only sell it on your farm

I'm starting to think either jersey, dexter, or highland would be the way to go on breeds because they are smaller breeds, but I'm starting to wonder if I should get cattle since they take up so much land, but if I do i think I need smaller ones

I have a friend who raises lowline. They are a mini black angus, and DARN cute. I agree on smaller framed cattle, but that is just me. I always threaten a few cows, but my wife is not enthusiastic about them. It is important you both enjoy the choices you make.

If you are considering cattle I would suggest a few dairy heifers and one Angus bull from a low birth weight line. I would rather deal with my Beefalo/Limousin bull than a dairy bull. Remember you need to be able to sell all the calves you will not want to keep. For one I would rather buy a beef/dairy mix calf than a straight dairy one to raise out for beef.

I hope you can get used to a steady diet of asparagus and rhubarb.

And I hope you do an awful lot of studying and refining your plan before you commit the money.

geo

I'd plan on 3 acres per cow/calf pair that you want. That will allow grazing for most of the year and allow you to stockpile pasture for the winter. Which I admit, we're not close enough to yet here lol. I'm managing someone else's 165 acres here in MD, and let me tell you it fills up really fast with pasture, hay ground, and a little bit of corn or soybeans... Currently running 29 cows + 1 bull, and the replacement heifer / steer group of 39 animals (though 12 of them are going to freezer camp next month). I'd like us to get away from making a lot of hay and having more pasture, but the owner just aint havin it. He likes selling hay...

Well... it's based on a proven system, so the basic theory is you make it like a forest, in some places a acre can easily feed 10 people, and you...just look up "secret garden of survival" but yeah it's a really cool book.

Oh.....

geo

Well, it all depends.

Are you planning on having 100 of each animal or 5 of each animal? Are you going to do rotational grazing or just fence and pasture your larger animals?

Just because you CAN bale your own hay doesn't mean you should. Do you already own all of the equipment required or would you have to buy it?

For some people, it's actually cheaper to buy the hay rather than make it themselves. If you make it yourself, you have to have a shelter to put your hay in - unless you are going with round bales.

You don't say if you are familiar with farm animals or not. My best advice would be to start out small - get just a few animals. Maybe 3 cows and a flock of chickens. Once you have mastered the animal husbandry of those animals - you can then decide if you want to expand and get more of those animals, or expand into other different animals. Or you may decide a certain animal isn't for you.

You question is akin to asking "I have a job, can I afford to buy a house?" Not being mean, but there are so many variables to your question.

Start out small and slow and go from there.

Lotta questions here
#1 Why do you want Holstein. Id rather drink the milk of a Jersey, or Brown Swiss, or Gurnsey ANY day than I would a Holstein. Sides, Youll have to put antifreeze into those Holsteins to keep the milk from freezing in the winter lol
#2 How many acres are open?
#3 What kind of grass is the ground in?
#4 How many acres are plowable?
#5 If you raised ONLY corn and hay, you could raise all the animals you mentioned. Raising wheat and oats would help out the grain mix, but it isn't necessary.
#6 What machinery do you have now?
#7 Do you have the money to buy all these animals, and raise the hay and grain for them too?

Most ponzie scams are also based on a proven system......

Be careful there, some folks that can't do much in life find they can sell books with a dream. Book might be fiction tho.......

Beef turn stemmy stuff into a nice big body, frame, and some muscle, you finsh that into good beef meat with a couple months of grain or some extra nice hay for the hay purists.

Milkers you turn high protien grain or forage (alfalfa) into high protien milk.

Trying to do both is like wanting to drive a work pickup in the Indy 500. I love a good truck, I love a sleek race car, the two are very different.

Pick one.

Compromising the two into a truck-race car will put you last at Indy, and leave you stranded at work. You end up failing before you start, there is no way to succeed.

Pick one.

Many of us have farmed or raised critters for decades. We've been through it.

You will do well if you pare back to 10% of your plans, get good at them, and then branch out.

You will find the book planners haven't lived in the real world much......

This is not to discourage you, but to focus your plans into something manageable.

What part of MN are you looking at? I'm in south central.

I've had fun growing a few acres of oats, with turnips and alfalfa and clover and sometimes peas thrown in. Swath and combine the oats for grain, bale the straw, let it regrow a few weeks, and can graze the turnips and regrowth along with some harvested cornstalks.

But that doesn't feed them all year, just late fall into early winter. You need all 4 seasons covered.

Paul

Well I think I'm going to get highland cattle, all of it, I about 60, I have an old farmall international, but that's about it, I plan on growing that too, if I do it slowly yes

What model and year Farmall. I have a 48 H and a 50 Cub