My advise to people under thirty.

Post of the century award.

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Yes the government has made it too easy, and has made people depend on the government instead of trying to improve themselves to earn more. They, the government is at fault for turning many in this country into couch potatoes.

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LOL, you just described Henry Ford's "trickle down economy" at work!!

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Post of the century award.

(gee-in only NINE posts!)

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Prolly AK meant to say BFE instead of timbuktu but can't here...

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Yes my use of that was this meaning
Definition of Timbuktu
"any location inconveniently far away"; "THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE". And had nothing to do with the true location.

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As long as work can be shipped overseas and be sent back at labor cost saving more than it costs to make here, labor worth is suppressed.
So government, intent on profitability for the company , signs trade agreements with a 2/3rd value for the US then notices "wage stagnation", which started before the recession, keeps upping welfare to make it tolerable. But the companies are not so hot on increased taxes to pay for it. The government has created this mess and will only keep making it worse.

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My advise to anyone under 30 living in such an area would be to run as fast as you can to someplace else and earn a living. 8 dollars an hour is not worth any time or effort at all. Heck 20 dollars an hour isn't worth hurting yourself over time. Ever price out back surgery? I say abandon the lousy businesses and there owners that can't run a business well enough to pay people well. In my experience there are only three types of businesses that have low skilled poorly payed employees.

One never invests in machinery, technology, and education to make his workers more productive and more valuable. It's not the employees job to purchase a lumber stacker. Entry level in a modern sawing facility would be a floor sweep.... Not a lumber mover.

two, They are poor contract negotiators... They give their employees labors away at a discount. So they are inadvertently shorting the available cash flow to the business and it's resources.

Three are the ones that like to throw man hours at a problem. Basically they higher 6 guys to do the work of 4 because their managers are hired from within. They have no new ideas. The business is going nowhere. They aren't ever going to need more than a few well paid people... And that guy isn't you!


Work for a company that is growing and expanding. Find a boss that excites you to succeed and wants to give you the tools to make lots of money. This would be a good boss.

So I reiterate... Never take a job as cheap labor. It's never worth it. Period.

I agree with Stan.

I understand geographical differences but the fact that you had to fire 15 people in the last two years is a red flag.

My job in the past hinged on hiring people at more than the going rate and then making sure the company still made money by doing my job and managing the business. You get what you pay for or they move on or don't show up. Every once in a while you might find that hidden gem at the lower wages but you spend more time and energy finding them because you had to hire, train and get rid of the ones that did not fit.

Any good business owner knows that the good ones are worth the extra money in the long run. Lost production means lost revenue.

Ive thought of another thing, cause when I was hunting jobs, I felt it myself.
I didn't like talking to strangers, hat in hand more or less begging for a job. I did it, and never lacked for work till I got in my late 50s, then almost never found one.

I think that young kids today, who hardly never speak to strangers face to face, but on facebook, twatter, and whatever else there is, have even more fear of talking face to face with strangers, and cant/don't/ want to handle that situation

I can't wait to tell the under 30 crowd what a bunch of slackers they are. The ones I associate with can dig fireline for 16 hrs a day for 2 weeks straight. And the Iraq and Afghanistan vets, you know they're a bunch of lazy slackers. And the local loggers, that doesn't even need to be mentioned. May as well throw in the under 30 nurses and teachers I know also. All a useless waste of oxygen. Better yet, come on up to my neck of the woods and tell them yourselves and have the personal satisfaction of giving them a piece of your mind.

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"I have jobs available that can pay easily $25 an hour but I am not going to bribe a worthless employee. When they prove there self I will promote. Part time hauling boxes is not worth more than $8 an hour."

Yep. Employees can get all hot and bothered over the idea that they are "worth" more. Work usually has little or nothing to do with the "worth" of an employee. It is all about the cost of getting the particular job done, and how that cost fits in to the cost of doing business. It doesn't matter if it an uneducated lazy employee or a super-smart boss. If the business is making dimension lumber, the consumer will only pay a limited range of prices for that lumber, whether is is created by druggie Joe or a master craftsman.

agreed. But it is the process of finding the good ones that is the tough part. Paying higher than market wages to a bunch of bad ones doesn't help. Starting a trainee off at a modest wage and having him work up is a proven winning formula, although as others have noted, the welfare state may have messed that up a bit.

Deleted...


Poorly stated post.

It would be interesting to know the ages of the people responding to this post.
Im 67

You have missed the point entirely. We are not saying there are no highly motivated, hard working under 30s. Of course there are sharp and extra sharp individuals in all age groups and especially in the military where there is a culture of thrive or get out. This thread is about the ones who are not doing great things. With 46M people on food stamps, surely you recognize that there are some people not working 16 hrs a day on a fire line.

Trainee may be the operative word. They need training but are worth spending the money and time training them. The majority of trainee positions I have hired for ( or that I hired on as ) where the outcome was optimal, had a lower starting wage and a bonus if you made it through the training period. So in fact you got paid that higher rate after 6 to 8 weeks and you got back pay for the training period. That insured that we hired the right people for the job in the first place.

You should rarely be paying the better wages to the wrong guy. If you are then you are failing at hiring or you can't offer the wages needed to get the better employees.

I am 29. I have fired more people over the age of 40 than below it for lack of production or willingness to learn.

Every generation has their dog to kick. I've got another 20 years I guess before I can start kicking mine.

Complete loyalty if that was the initial contracted rate at which she was hired.

Then, if she showed up for work every day and made money for the company she'd make more money. Maybe she had skills for training and she could be promoted again...or if she showed leadership skills she'd move into management and make more money.

But heck, you're probably right...what's the sense of even trying.

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'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.

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If you want quality you need to be setting up your interview/hiring practices to reflect this, actually call the references, and glean as much information about the prospective hire as you can.