My advise to people under thirty.

Your right that is exactly what $8 hr will get you, butr why would you want them? Yhey have alreagy quite a bunch of things so why screw with them.

Reading over some of sawings old posts I couldn't work for him myself but then I'm pretty sure I would have heard about him before I applied I used to research my prospective employers good.

If I agreed to work you got exactly what you said you required, and if i saw it would give returns you got a little more, but my eye was always out for a better deal.

Ya'll are correct that if you agree to work for a man, you give it your all. But part of the deal is that you get 'an honest days pay for an honest days work.' The point is that if you offer a starting wage that is much below market, the decent workers will not even bother to apply for the job, because they know they can do better. This means that you never see quality applicants, but you get plenty of no-count folks for whom paying $8/hr is overpaying them. If you were an engineer, would you even apply for a job that pays 20g a year when you know you can make at least 50g?

Visit some of the neighboring sawmills and find out what the help there is paid. That will give you a better idea of what you will need to offer to get decent help.

Loki

Agreed. Good grief, I can't believe the people lamenting that $8/hour is too low for a zero skilled, grunt job. Higher pay is for people that have a skill, or develop that skill on the job after a time. Are we to pay top dollar for every job that is hard? ANY job done well is HARD! If you are making the owner of that business money, and adding value then that employer, if they have half a brain, will pay you more. If they don't, then find one that will. Be advised that you might think you are more valuable to an employer than you actually are.

I thank God every day the lessons my father taught me about work, work ethic, and creating a value to my employer.

He taught me that no job was beneath me, and that as long as I was employed by someone, I was to give 100% of my effort in that job...love it or hate it. He taught me that I must give MORE value to my employer than what I receive, or that employer would soon be out of business. If I felt I could do better than the job I was working, find a better job, give proper notice to my employer and thank them for the opportunity and take the new job.

I think if people would focus on being the best at whatever job they are currently at...the rest would largely take care of itself. The lessons I've learned about work have served me well over the years and have made me a better boss. My employees can't believe it when they see me, the CEO of the company, pick up a broom or mop and clean something up.

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cr, my thought was, IF he had a crew that worked reasonably good for him, he could throw in the slab wood to sweeten the deal.
Maybe, IF ya work all week on time, you can leave Fri, OR SAT, when I got paid with a pickup load of slabs,
We would have to go to the bank in W Plaines on Sat mornings to get our checks. Once we went there, and the bank wouldn't pay us as they had had no delivery of money from the mill. We didn't like having to go to town to get our checks in the first place, but to go there, and not get paid, and some getting there with almost no gas, it made us mad. Finally some lady showed up with the cas to deposit, and we got paid, after an hour of being there,

If there is no such thing as trickle down, where did that $5 / hour come from? You argue persuasively against your own position.

What does any of that have to do with anything I said. Aload of $10 slabs ain't alot of sweetner either

Our local Aldi store is hiring and starting pay is $12,00 per hour.

I did heavy labor every summer when I was in college. I'm 26 now, so this was only a few years ago. I worked for a junk removal company, meaning we would show up with a dump truck and clean out businesses or homes, etc. Sometimes it would be because someone was moving or a business was shutting down, other times it would just be a couple of old appliances or something. Here's what my compensation looked like:

- $10/hr base wage for 40 hours per week.
- 10% commission on any job that I booked myself (that is $65 per dump truck load). So, I would spend another 10 hours a week on my own time beyond the 40 just walking around parking lots and neighborhoods talking to people about the business and trying to get customers.
- Tips from customers which averaged out to about $20/job and 2-3 jobs per day.
- I could keep anything at all that we removed from a job. So, I kept dozens of items and sold them on craigslist. Everything from sets of 20 desks/chairs/cubicle setups from an office building cleanout to a motorcycle trailer.

I was bringing home at least $3,000 per month as a 20 year old in a summer job. Who would do heavy labor for $8/hr? I would have to be truly desperate.

Just some food for thought.

Ours opened hiring at $10 for checkers and stockers, and $14 for managers.
Easy job as as well...chair to sit on, and checkers just check, they don't stock. That's what stockers are for

They have a loyal staff here.

Things have changed. Back when I was in HS and College I don't remember asking or being told what I would be making. I was just excited to have the job. I worked hard and did right by the businesses I worked for. In turn in paid off. As I got older I had excellent references and never had a problem finding good employment. I then opened a few of my own businesses and hired both young and older workers. The older workers were never late, never complained and ran the business if necessary. Most of my younger workers showed up sometimes, did nothing but whine about life, and ask for pay advances. I do have to say I had probably 2 out of 10 younger 16-22 year older workers that were also very good but most chose to sit and watch me work when they bothered coming to work. I usually didn't fire them but just scheduled them out. I had a few come tell me they needed more hours but when I would try to schedule them they would come up with a number of excuses for why they couldn't work evenings, weekends, etc. Usually then I would just tell them I didn't really have anything for them. When folks call for references I try to be fair. I make them ask specific questions and I give very direct answers as I feel if they ask the important questions as an employer they will figure it out by my answers.

The profit motive has always been a thing though. I can't imagine someone being willing to work without a clear explanation of how much they would be making for the time invested. I would never take a job without having had the opportunity to consider the costs and benefits of that particular opportunity. Generally, when offered a job I request a week to consider it and weigh it against other offers. All opportunities are not good opportunities and I think people are increasingly aware of that.

I live in a small house in a rural farm town in New Hampshire on only one acre of land and 40 hours per week at $8/hr wouldn't even pay my mortgage payment. So, given that particular opportunity, I know for certain that I would turn it down.

I really believe part of the problem in the USA is that we have so many benefits. I am not saying that government benefits have never been used by me or others I love or that they were not lifesavers at the time. We have really long unemployment terms, food stamps, free health care all for those who do not work. So why work? People come here from other countries that have no benefits just to get these great benefits and now folks who are not even citizens will get benefits and a SS number which my X says is to make them pay taxes. I wager that they will never pay in enough to make up for the benefits they use. The whole system is upside down, the family broke apart first and now fails to care for its own disabled or elderly members...therefore our wonderful government felt the need to step in and care for these folks. Now a days many folks think it is the governments job to provide us with food and shelter and a safe place to live! How wrong is that!

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Not a living wage? What like 1/2 Minimum-Wage?

Not many employers pay 1/2 Minimum-Wage.

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http://www.mofga.org/Programs/FarmAp...2/Default.aspx

I'm not a fan of entitlements and generally think we would be better off culturally without those programs, but I also have a sneaking suspicion that the people who are dependent on those programs by choice rather than by necessity wouldn't improve their situation in the absence of them. They would probably just rob the rest of us literally rather than metaphorically because even that would be easier and more profitable than working for $8/hr doing heavy labor with no benefits. The enemy you know vs. the enemy you don't. They're almost like the price we pay for the opportunity not to be further burdened. Protection $$$?

Whats getting lost in all this is the AREA that the OP is in.
And that is what is wrong with these fast food workers wanting 15 bucks an hour. Sure some areas sure will support that but you you live in Tim Buck Two and have little else around you PAY what the AREA will SUPPORT. You can't PAY a high wage if that area is POOR.
Where I worked they took a survey once a year of Surrounding Businesses of like work. And found out what raise they were planning on doing. The company i worked for Pretty much matched what others IN THE AREA were paying.
You have to take in count what the LOCAL Economy is like One Pay Raise of a higher amount may not be good cause nobody could then afford to BUY said products or services cause the rates and or prices are too high.

One pay rate does not fit all areas of this country, Why can't people see that?

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Too many employees stories, too little time. Suffice it to say, in grunt labor you'll go through a bunch to find one worth keeping.

And yes, as Willow Girl refers to it, it's a safety "hammock". When total benefits are more than minimum wage you're fighting an uphill battle as an employer.

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Who's not seeing it, I don't care where you live 8 bucks ain't much of a living.

I don't know why you think your company invented wage surveys they have been around forever and really mean diddly squat.

cr, when I worked at the mill, I had to quit working at Coke in WP cause my license had been revoked, and it was found out, and a dep sheriff worked there. The mill was ariound 2 miles from the house, which saved me a lot on gas. I made between $5 to 7hr. I had to pay $5 for a bundle of slabs. I got one, and didn't get anymore as I thought it was too expensive. This was in 78/9. Getting the slabs for free would have been a Godsend, as I would have likely used 3 or 4 bundles of them. ALSO I would have saved the time of cutting wood as I didn't have a chain saw then, and had to cut with 2 mans, 1 man axes, a couple wedges, sledge and buzz saw.
I quit when winter shut down the mill. Wife came to Tulsa and got a job at Zebco, and got me one also when I came there. Yes, I would have likely stayed with them cause of not being able to drive in town and get a better paying job, and that they was going to make me head sawyer on my own outfit come spring. IF I could have hauled a bundle out every other month, I wouldn't have had to worry about wood come winter.
My license was revoked in Mos. I got it back in Okla.

What does it buy......what ever the employee chooses.
When I was first starting out I would even offer to train for free vs a wage.
It showed I meant business.

I never stayed at a low wage.

All the man is demanding is that during ones work hours you work.

I have always faired far better under an employer like Saw than other jobs with a set pay with raises at predetermined number of hours.... I also kept my mouth shut as to what I got with co workers crying about pay.

It is called EARNING A LIVING not charity.

Like most things, it is not black and white, but gray. $8 an hour might be worth something in some places (like TN), but not worth the trouble in NYC. I hear many biz owners lament the difficulty in getting good workers. And sometimes 'Good' just means someone who will show up on time, be sober and not steal anything. There are also potentially hard working people who don't really see many good opportunities - too young - too old - depressed area - whatever. The unemployment rate might be in the 5.* range, but there seems to be a lot of people that want to work, but cannot find work. But if the person the OP hired agreed to take the job, at least make a good faith effort to show up and do the work. Like they say; "you can't fix stupid", I think sometimes "you can't fix lazy". Some folks literally don't have their 'act together' to the point that they can show up on a continuing basis for a job. Maybe they don't have reliable transportation or they have some sort of drug or mental issue or just lazy. We waste a lot of 'human capital' for one reason or another. Government assistance is a double edged sword of course, it helps people in a bind, but it can also create bad behavior. But look at the social welfare system in some European countries. Makes us look austere, but there is also the third world, where you might just end up starving if you can't make money. Enough of my pontificating.