Gold and Its Supposed "Store of Value"

Why would you wait until you were hungry to cash in some gold? I have a broker who will sell your gold and send you a check in 7 days. Again, if you lose your house/homestead during an economic downturn, where will you put all your stored food? How will you grow more when you've consumed what you have?

Got to differ on the "value" of diamonds and rubies as a stash........

Both are nice to look at but don't bother coming to my place and trying to barter a tiny piece of diamond???? for my eggs.......
I haven't the foggy-est idea on what others percieve as the value of that little piece of stone.......

Totally different story when you pull Silver coins out of your pocket....

Let's face it - if there is a complete breakdown of society there will be no taxes to pay - very few people will be able to pay their taxes - no state government is going to throw millions of people out on the street because they can't pay their taxes - that's insane - if that happened there would be a revolution -

Let's look at a possible scenario - the complete power grid goes down because of terrorists blowing up key 500 and 750 kv substations around the country - because there are only a few spare transformers available the resulting power outage can last for years - what happens - everything comes to a stand still - people can't work - banks, grocery stores, gas stations, everything is shut down - the government is shut down - police protection is gone because there is no gas available for their cruisers - mail delivery is stopped - you are basely on your own - food, water, shelter, heat are what you need - and if you don't have these you are lost - will I sell you some of my food for your gold - I don't think so - the value of gold at that time will hopefully be for you to be able to buy food - maybe - what would you rather have the food or the gold - heck my social security check won't even be deposited anymore - you don't think that this type of disaster can happen - think again

Do you know how many Americans will almost certainly die without power, water and supermarkets?

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Yep. About 90%, which I've been saying for years. Also why I don't depend on someone else to supply me with power, water, and food.

As far as selling someone some food for gold (or silver), sure I will.

I produce an excess of food now that I sell for paper, which I would not take in a SHTF world, but I certainly would take hard metals. What good are 20 dozen eggs a week to two people ?

Must be a fair number of 'preppers' that are sitting on a limited stockpile of food. I'd have to ask: What is your plan when it runs out ?

ALOT. Thats why I've always recognized the dangers of being too dependent on the system and have tried to be as self reliant as possible.

Plenty...unless they prepare themselves. Those that wait for help from anyone are in a world of hurt.
Sad to say, it will be their own fault...be an ant, not a grasshopper.

Matt

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In the West nothing but wheat grows without water and most in the Northeast would have froze to death this winter, so my guess is the old Confederate States would be the ones overrun by the masses. I think Great Britain would take us back before we got to the Mad Max scenario, so get ready for high taxes.

Um you do realize that the "DOW" or the DOW Jones Industrial Average is simply 30 companies right? You do realize that if one company falls out of favor (financially) that they are removed and replaced with an "up and comer" right?

The DOW only reflects our "best" companies in a sense.

Please realize that it is nothing but "cherry picking data" in the DOW and you have cherry picked data yourself within the post.

You do realize that if the government had not intervened in "the dow" over the past 7 years or so that it would have went to closer to "zero" right? You realize that it is still manipulated today right? You realize that you and I have bailed these companies out, so please alott some of your tax dollars to offset your gains. Please allow for the depreciation of the dollar.

One can not simply look at the dow in any given year and compare it to any year of the past. Here is the components of the 1910 Dow:

Amalgamated Copper
American Car & Foundry
American Smelting & Refining
American Sugar
Colorado Fuel & Iron
General Electric Company
National Lead
Peoples Gas
U.S. Rubber
U.S. Rubber first pfd.
U.S. Steel
U.S. Steel pfd.


You do realize when a company pretty much goes under or is having bad times that they are removed from the DOW long before their stock price goes to zero. So let's say in 1910 that you put $10 into each of these companies - what would it be worth today?

You realize that there were only 12 companies in the "Dow" in 1910 and that today there are 30 - can't you see a tripling of the value of the DOW simply by adding in more companies? Wanna make the DOW go to $36K today then, how about you make it 60 companies? Wanna make the DOW industrial average go down to $6K...then use 11 companies like it was in 1910.

Now Let's get back to the list you so speak of in the 1910 Dow and let's simply start with the 1st company. Let's say my grandfather stuck $10 in
Amalgamated Copper and let's look at it's value today - Oh wait, he lost his $10 when it went under in 1915. If he would have invested that $10 in silver at leat he would have something today.....that my friend is a preservation of wealth, not a gamble.

Of the twelve original companies that made up the Dow Jones Industrial index, only one remains ( General Electric ). All the rest were removed from the dow, went out of business, or were broken up and bought by other companies.

The components of the Dow have changed 53 times. So chances are, if you had invested initially in any of the original companies that made up the DJIA, your money would be gone.

DOW is a snapshot of the times, not the biggest or hottest company's. In 1910 steel was building America, now its cheaper to import it. When the DOW drops a company, that money doesn't just disappear, its rolled into the replacement. S&P is a better look at how things are going, oh look, new record highs.

Oh...yeah. Good luck with those record highs. Hope you have a back-up plan.

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The fact that the companies on the dow are continually changing means that it can't be held as a measure of any single investment, unless that investment is some sort of dow index fund or ETF. If you invested in stocks you may have lost alot of money, or made money or stayed about the same depending on the individual stock you bought.

Record highs in the S&P are supported by central bank liquidity injections. P/E ratios around 20 ( above the average of 14 ). That means prices are way out of proportion to earnings.

They have to change with the times, in 1884 there was 9 railroads, one steam ship and western union. In 1980 there were steel, tobacco and Eastman Kodak, I haven't bought film in ten years. If they really wanted to kick start things, Apple would be one, and probably will be at some time, in fact I'm surprised there isn't a smart phone maker in there. My point is the DOW has to change with the times.

Oh, I agree that you have to change with the times. With that said, your money invested in those companies in the 1900's would be gone.

Eastman Kodak:

It's odd that you think they only made film and it is just as odd that you are talking to someone that was an engineer in Research and Development for Kodak during the 90's-2000's....they had lots of products

Over a very long period of time, precious metals have proven themselves to be an excellent store of value when at least part of the globe has been relatively stable. Gems, not so much. Jewelry, rarely at all, because there is no guarantee nor easy way to confirm that it's pm content is what you or someone else may claim. Junk silver coins are about as good as it gets, because AFAIK, there's no one who is counterfeiting them (if you except the official clad varieties) - it just isn't worth it for someone to do so (yet- 3d printers may change that).

That being said, if/when global society gets beyond a point of decay, all bets are off on whether your gold or silver, even as 'junk', can see the light of day without you being hauled off for being a domestic terrier-ist by a kleptocracy intent on preserving itself above any semblance of preserving the rights of others, and that could outlast several generations. In it's more benign forms, it already has (e.g.: wage and property taxes).

Don't think for a minute that if the "real" economy vaporizes, when wallet paper becomes toilet paper, that the states and feds won't add a property tax to keep the funds coming in, or to make everything state owned so you can work on the Collective Farm, or in the Collective Factory, for the privilege of living in Collective housing and receiving Collective Allocations of food for your meals (while the overseers are living large). The mechanisms are already in place (look at the increasing number of people receiving SNAP benefits, or housing assistance, and the growing mumblings about making them work for what they get), and the end results are as certain as dandelions in the spring.

No, there is nothing in this world that will store value against thieves in positions of power. The only way to keep from being stolen from, is to have nothing of value to them. "Freedom's just another word for nuthin' left to lose."

The only people I see that may retain a semblance of "freedom", at least for a while, will be the outcasts, the itinerant, the willfully homeless: the hobos, gypsies, and zombies, at least for as long as they are left alone, and there are plenty of historical examples of times when they weren't.



My personal answer to a store of value is in Mat. 6:19-21.
As always, YMMV.

Best post of the whole darn thread.

For those wondering what is really going on here you go .

These eight steps were written in 1787 by Professor Alexander Tyler. The United States was in the planning process of a young and fragile Democracy. So, this Professor took a look at the past and tried to map out the evolution of a Democracy. He determined a time line for these eight steps and an estimate of how long the process would take, 200 years.
http://didshesaythat.com/?p=515

Or http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread412647/pg1
HOW LONG DO WE HAVE?
This is the most interesting thing I've read in a long time. The sad thing about
it, you can see it coming.
I have always heard about this democracy countdown. It is interesting to see
it in print. God help us, not that we deserve it.
How Long Do We Have?

The stored PM's might help our children in some way after the crash

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Check it Out O added another Plank With O care
http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist...to-Planks.html

apple to replace At&T on the dow.....let's watch how this turns out as it was exactly what we were talking about earlier. Make announcement, AT&T loses 1.25% and Apple gains the opposite.....got to announce these things at just the right moment for maximum effect.

To Add:

Man things are getting interesting, lots of bullets to dodge today. And unemployment now down to 5.5%......can you say FULL EMPLOYMENT? Gold and Silver hammered. But ah, that is exactly how this is supposed to play out.

It provides a buying opportunity.

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