Is there any Amish folks on here?

As I said before, this has been very enlightening! Thanks so much for your replies. In Alvin's case I am now convinced he really doesn't know the "why" to many things but rather it has just been their practice his whole life.
I'm so glad I asked this. Y'all have been much help. Please add to it if you feel the need.
Thanks again,


Wade

We have Amish people near us. They come to the Dr. in horse & buggy and there is a hitching post for them behind the heliport. They can drive someone else's tractor but can't own one. Around here, they can't buy cigarettes, but enjoy smoking YOURS. The Mennonites here drive cars, but the Amish hire people to take them to the work sites. We have fairly large communities in the surrounding areas. They have greenhouses, quilt shops, furniture making shops & blacksmithing. They don't have phones, but their English neighbors take their calls and pass on the information. Amish people here don't have a church... they pray in someone's home.
We have a Mennonite store not far from here that sells bulk items. They all tend to dress similar with the women in pale calico dresses of the same sort of design and have their long hair in a white cap on the back of their head.
At the nursing home where I work, the Mennonites come once a month with a bible reading, sermon and songs. Their kids are VERY well behaved.

Debbie

Someone said not to believe anything you see on TV about the Amish. I would say that's true, except for a very good PBS program simply called, "The Amish." You can probably find it on PBS's website.

There are many "flavors" of Amish, just as there are many flavors of Protestant churches. If you grew up in certain areas populated by different Amish churches, you could tell who belonged to which Amish community by the difference in their dress. Hat styles, one or two suspenders for the men, dress styles, covering styles (the cap the women wear).

The Ordnung for each Amish church lays out the rules. If a new situation occurs that is not addressed, each church has to decide how to deal with it, or whether to accept a new practice or not. The bishop of each church generally will make the final decision. I read some years ago that the Amish are always about 50 years behind modern society as far as the technology they accept and use. That may not always apply, as with cell phones, but how they use a modern technology will still be limited in some way. Strong differences of opinion on whether to accept something new/different have led to many splits in the Amish community over time, and hence all the different flavors of Amish-ness.

Pride is a major sin in the Amish way of thinking. To say, "I know I'm saved and going to heaven" is considered prideful in some Amish communities. They express hope that when they stand before God, they will be accepted according to how well they lived their life in accordance with the Ordnung. So, many believe in salvation through works, essentially. And they aren't usually encouraged to read the Bible on their own, but to listen to the preaching of their bishop and elders.

There are exceptions to this, I'm certain (see above where there are many flavors of Amish).

My mother's parents were born and raised Old Order Amish. After my grandparents were married, my grandfather was working in the barn one day and had a strong conviction, which he believed was from God, that they needed to leave their Amish way of living. I don't know how this went over with my grandmother, but they did eventually leave and became conservative Mennonites, and could have electricity, indoor plumbing, a car, etc. I remember one of my aunts saying that my grandmother always seemed sad. Well, if they were already married in the OO Amish church, then they had been baptized. And if they had been baptized, leaving would mean shunning. And my grandmother would have had to leave all of her friends and family and probably was never spoken to again by any of them. Essentially, my grandparents would have been "dead" to their former community, unless they had gone back, repented in front of the church, and asked to be reinstated. They never did that. My mother was raised Mennonite, and married a Wesleyan.

I think it's true that a lot of Amish wouldn't necessarily be able to tell you why they do or do not do certain things, other than it's what they have been brought up doing/not doing, and because it's what the Ordnung says. Perhaps your friend shuts down the conversation sometimes because he simply can't give you a good answer, or maybe sometimes because he feels that the reasons should be private or should not be discussed with someone who is "English," even though you are friends. You will not offend him, I am certain, by anything you do or ask, as he understands that the Amish and the English are different and have different customs and beliefs. He just may not always be able to give you an answer.

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Karen
Birchtree Homestead Farm
http://birchtreefarm.com
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The feed mill that I go to is run by Amish. They use a diesel motor to run the mill and provide electricity for the office. They have a computer for the business and the phone is inside of the office. The one son of the owner did not stay amish and drives the bulk feed truck for them. The owner is semi-retired and used to go to Florida for vacation in the winter time and stayed in a hotel with ac and tv.. He told me he would watch the tv for the news to see what was going on at the time. He is OO Amish too. Both of his sons have cell phones to call in orders for the mill.

as to why a generator might be ok but not power line from the power and light

debt , and measurable substance

they can measure the gas they purchase for cash put into the generator they know how long the generator runs their refrigeration for how many dollars they put in , and it all is paid for before an ounce is burnt

the wife works for the co-op the Amish pay ahead for the next delivery no credit they don't want credit

Mennonite can vary widely , but some do use power company electric and credit

they probably watched all the "english" farmers go into debt have a bad year and loose the farm , and they were smart enough to avoid that

No, we do not because there are Mennonites who are Old Order Mennonites. They are usually horse and buggy Mennos, they usually speak Dutch but they would wear print on their clothing, Amish won't and Menno men would not have beards. You won't find a married Amish man without one.

Also they differ on shunning. Menno's only shun at the communion table. Amish shun everything.

My dil's mother was raised OO Menno. She was never from an Amish family. I would belong to what is termed a conservative Menno church. There is more variation in my type of church. We have cars, but not tv's some of us have radios, some don't. Our church has internet, but other conservative ones don't allow it.

Most of us don't speak Dutch, but that also depends on where you are located geographically and where your parents came from. A lot of people in my type of church have parents who came from OO Menno background and they might know some Dutch.

My sil speaks Dutch, but he was raised Beachy Amish. My DIL know a little dutch but but she was raised conservative Menno and her father didn't speak it so her mother didn't unless she was with her family.
we weren't raised Menno so we don't speak it. But no one in my church speaks it because of where we are located. The closest OO's are 2 hours away.
Also Menno Simons was actually a leader in the early church. He was a former Catholic priest.

More information on Mennonites can be found here:
http://www.mennoniteusa.org/about-us/

and also if you scroll all the way to bottom of this page and click on "Who are the Mennonites?" there is further history available.

This is the Mennonite Church USA's site, but they mention that there are about 40 different Mennonite groups in the US.

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Karen
Birchtree Homestead Farm
http://birchtreefarm.com
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And when the Amish go bad.........

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HummerWoodenWagonWheels4LBppjTc33ql.jpg (70.5 KB, 0 views)

Seriously now.


I have no problem with the Amish, we got our dog from them. BUT, when they travel, they frequent my wife's restaurant. A large group of them 15~20 eat and leave no tip. The driver will leave a tip for his service, and that's it. My wife will spend a hour or more waiting on them.
That alone, is costing my wife about $1800 per year. (she pays a 10% tax on all meals served) tip or not. The Amish don't tip.
Now, after last week the restaurant is working on changing how the bill is totaled for large groups.

Those wheels actually look pretty cool on there!

Wade

Just maybe the problem is your wife's ''English'' employer and not the customers.

Nope. The IRS requires servers to pay income tax on a percentage of the meals served.

If a waiter/server delivers $1,000 worth of food and drink during their shift, the restaurant, as the employer, has to report to the IRS that the waiter earned $100 in tips on their taxes.

Before this law was enacted, servers were on an honor system, more or less, IIRC. You could make $400 in tips, but only report $40. The IRS was getting ripped off, so they enacted this rule/law.

The Amish family we bought our homestead from ran a cabinet making/woodworking shop using a 40 horse diesel engine that he kept in an attached room. He had an 'electric' start button inside the shop that worked off a battery. His wife's roller type washing machine worked off a pony motor.

One of the strangest Amish habits I have encountered happened one morning during the heat wave that happened two years ago. It was already in the upper 80s by 9 AM when a buggy with three Amish men rolled in. I went outside to see what they wanted dressed in modest shorts and a tank top. I had on the proper undergarments, no straps were showing nor could you see through anything. I noticed almost immediately that the three men, all younger than myself would not make eye contact or look at me. It made me feel very uncomfortable and I'm sure they probably rolled away muttering about that 'English Jezebel" even though by our standards, I was dressed just fine. I filed it away under the title of 'strange things I've noticed about the Amish' until recently when I noticed that the husband of the Amish woman that runs the local General Store does the same thing when he waits on non-Amish women. I've gone in, dressed in heavy winter parka and snow boots with a hood over my hair and he's done the same thing, not just with me but with other non-Amish women. Granted, looking at me you can tell I'm not Amish (although because of my Pennsylvania Dutch maiden last name people have asked me if I was Amish. I mean duh, I'm dressed in blue jeans, colorful t-shirt with my long hair drawn back in a scrunchy, what do you think?) but while it may be the Amish habit to cover their women from neck to ankle and wrist, it is not our custom and eye contact to me is a sign of respect SO LOOK ME IN THE EYE when you talk to me.

I've started having my husband go in to the store with me just to test whether or not he will make eye contact with him. The strange thing is that when he has gone in, the ladies have been working and the ladies will make eye contact with him.

There is no understanding their ways, especially from community to community.

We recently lost about half of the community around us due to disagreements with the local Bishop about the Ordnung. Most moved to south western Missouri after the Joplin tornado where they were allowed to have propane refrigerators and water heaters in their homes along with a telephone (outside the house)

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I'm in my own little world, but it's ok. They know me here!

Some religions go overboard in protecting women from improper attention (leering, harassment). To them averting their eyes is a form of proper respect to women.

I spent years heavily involved in an Old Order Amish community..I had a medical practice with them..over 500 families...I made many life-long friends and was quite sad to leave them..

One Amish bishop gave a great explanation of "why" they do what they do... Initially, 300+ years ago, the Amish weren't visibly any different from their neighbors...as each new fangled thing came along, the Amish watched as families and then neighborhoods became unraveled..

1. People started talking on the telephone for amusement and stopped visiting and writing letters....
2. People started having idle time..all housework and ironing, etc. could be done in half the time by plugging in appliances to electricity..
3. People who could afford tractors and other heavy farm equipment could farm better, faster, and leave their neighbor in the dust..
4. People started taking rides for amusement..travelling..leaving their communities every weekend
5. People began to commute distances to work via cars.

all of these things, and many others, influenced every small farm community in a negative way...so..anything which serves to distance people from one another, and fragment the community is not done. Because of their decisions, no Amish grammie get dumped into a nursing home...people go visiting family and friends on Sundays...no Amish family has a teen on the phone behind a closed door, or a wife with too much time on her hands..a man isn't motivated to do his neighbor one better...there is no such thing as an Amish person who is alone by circumstance...

So riding in a car is fine...if not done to excess...owning one isn't..

Using a phone for business is fine...using it as a substitution for visiting is not.

Have a look at what has changed for "English" the last 40 years...the Amish community remains the same

Im not sure ill explane this good enough, but

I find that, after being alone since 91, I don't feel comfortable looking at women face to face. I will do it, but I feel the need to slightly make myself do so. I can imagine that, IF I am rather uncomfortable doing so, that amish men, who are used to being around amish dressed women, and maybe not even looking other than there own women in the face would feed greatly uncomfortable looking at a young woman in a tank top with hair flowing and in tight or near so jeans.

Actually, FarmboyBill, I think you said that pretty well. People do become accustomed to what they see all the time.

When people spend a lot of time at the beach, they're likely to get desensitized to seeing more skin. When people spend a lot of time seeing less skin, it can become uncomfortable or arousing (depending upon the circumstances) when they're placed in situations where more is showing than they're used to seeing.

Modesty is a good thing. Some practice it well. The Amish and Mennonite type groups typically do dress modestly. But other people do, too. And then some just have to show you most everything they've got, which I don't really appreciate either. How much is too much is a hard thing to pin down.

Yes but I will be 62 years old this summer so show me a little respect for having reached this age and maturity.

There is a difference between looking a woman in the eye and looking her in the 'eyes' that are lower if you get my drift.

I've had men do that to me in the past who were not Amish and only casual acquaintances and it's like 'Please look up and make eye contact with me.Show me respect.' Making eye contact when talking to person is different from staring longingly or lustily into their eyes and I have talked to plenty of men while dressed in casual shorts and tank top who were not afraid to look at me face to face.

This tendency not to look at a woman is a behavior I have noticed in some of the Amish men. Amish who are neighbors will for the most part hold a one on one conversation with me IF my husband is not available. But they would prefer to deal with my husband than with me and I have heard this from other women as well in the community. One told me that an Amish man frankly asked her to get her husband and she told him that her husband was busy and he'd have to deal with her or not deal at all.

The point being is that there is a line of discrimination in the Amish community. Men rule, women drool as the old saying goes. When we bought our homestead, my husband had to insist that the man's wife come sit down at the table and join in the negotiations. She gave her husband an uncertain look before joining us. I'm sure she heard about it later.

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I'm in my own little world, but it's ok. They know me here!

I had a very different circumstance regarding the Amish ability to know/give directions.

I was visiting with my husband's cousin in Montgomery, IN when we went to visit her Amish friends. The original plan was to visit some of the Amish stores in the area, but the wife/mother was too busy to accompany us, so she sent her 6-yr-old daughter to tell us how to get to three different stores out in the country.

This child gave perfect directions, using directional terms (turn north at the next barn, etc.)! Even more amazing is the fact that only German is spoken in their home. The children manage to pick up English just from listening to their parents speak with visitors.

One of my favorite memories is listening to those precious children bless our meal, saying The Lord's Prayer in German.

Thank you for this thread, Wade.

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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Thomas Jefferson

I have to agree. The children are unbelievable. Polite, well behaved. We dined at the home of our Amish neighbor's cousin one day. The adults at the table talked, the children didn't. Afterwards, they left the table and went into the next room to play. You would swear that they were all reading but when we walked in, it was to find them all sitting around a small table, quietly playing a game. They are so adorable, the little girls playing out in the yard with their tiny bonnets on their heads. They wave at us as we pass, a finger usually stuck in their mouths.

I am sure the discipline within the home is strict, even as the children are cherished above all things as a gift from God.

I've often said to my husband that all 'English' children should spend 6 months living on an Amish farm as an Amish child.

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I'm in my own little world, but it's ok. They know me here!