Blasted Coyotes!

Just falling back on my life time of experience with owning more than one dog and not doing any research on line, yes, I can see this happening.

The pack dynamics would be upset. If the Alpha male and female were taken out of the pack then an internal disturbance of the packs hierarchy would occur. Fights between remaining pack for alpha dominance would happen.

When we had two puppies dumped on our doorstep and we took them in, I told my husband to be prepared for unrest once they matured because the 'pack order' of the original three dogs we owned would be challenged. Sure enough, it has been and yes there have been squabbles that are still going on even though they have pretty much reset their pack ranking and the original alpha female has kept her dominance by a thread with the new female pup (terrier border collie mix) positioning herself as beta just out of sheer stubbornness.

I can see the same thing happening in a coyote pack and yes, that upheaval maybe could conceivably make the pack more aggressive if the new alpha male or female has the inclination to attack a sheep or goat herd that the old alpha did not possess.

We went to a rotational grazing seminar sometime back and the ranch owner said he never disturbed coyote packs just for this reason.

Guess it comes under the notation of 'better the yote you know than the one you don't know'.

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Coyotes are not pack animals in the same respect as wolves or dogs. Because the coyote relies on small game for most of it's diet, and is not likely to take on larger prey they exist in groups of one or two most of the year. Any larger grouping only last 1 - 4 months and is most likely to occur during breeding season or when there is no small prey and they have to take on larger prey for survival. So - Coyotes don't have an alpha pack leader that has to be replaced if it is removed. The closest things to this is When they group up in winter for breeding and hunting - then, the fertile female is boss. If that female is killed, the group disbands - the young females that are not breeding go off on their own or like the males go looking for a new female in heat that will provide safety in numbers. If a female coyote's chosen mate is killed, she simply chooses a new one from the 5 -7 other males she has following her. There is no real struggle for dominance - it comes down to the baby maker being queen.
The reasons that coyotes kill livestock comes down to it is easy. They pick off the easiest target available - be it a sick or injured animal, or a birthing mama sheep. When they do attack birthing mothers, they actually go for the babies injuring the mamas in the process, very rarely do they kill the mama directly - usually, the mama dies from blood loss or infection.

I've caught doubles and I think a triple (if I remember right) when trapping coyotes during the fall long before breeding season and probably after dispersal of the YOY coyotes.

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I keep my .22 handy and when the coyotes get too close to our side of the clearcut, fire off a couple shots. Everything goes quiet for about 5-10 minutes and then they start up again - from the FAR side of the clearing, which is plenty far enough away for me. Muttley barks 'em, but knows better than to go out after them. Coyotes will take down a lone dog if they get the opportunity.

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As a trapper myself I guarantee this is as good a suggestion as any. As far as pack dynamics and hierarchy goes......???not sure???... A lot plays on transients, habitat,etc. it's not a question of there's x amount on this x amount of acres. I've read some university studies that stated a high percentage 70% +\-would have to be removed before you'd notice a down turn in population. So some ear plugs would be a quicker solution because they're not likely to go. I live in the ozark foot hills and hear them often around the house. I personally love the sound. It's one of the millions of reasons I live away from the city.

I like that you point out coyotes will take on a lone dog MGM! A buddy who hunts with me from time to time actually has a trained bait dog! When we are setup in a stand calling them in (with injured rabbit / small animal sequels), the dog wanders around out in front of us till a yote comes in. Instinct kicks in, and the dog hauls butt strait for us. The ------ off coyotes are hot on her, and not even realizing that danger waits behind the sagebrush. As soon as the dog is behind us, we are all clear to take out the coyotes. I've never seen it happen, but the rule is that if the yote(s) gets on the dog and it looks bad for the dog, we are to blow our cover and make as much noise as possible - but never under any situation are we to fire a shot. It is to dangerous for the dog and the hunters! I don't have the heart to train a dog to do this, but I have faith in my buddies elkhound; Botineye, she is still in her prime and I have seen her take on several black bear and mountain lion - so a coyote might just be strung out if they ever did get her trapped. I never pull up to her house rain or shine without calling out to her before I open the door to my rig either! I'd be up a tree in no time flat!

Coyotes are so bad here you can see them walking next to the interstate in broad daylight. Some neighborhoods have lost pet cats. We had a whole pack in the backyard one night, trying to get into the chicken coop. I hate em!

Lilith, I watched a small pack of coyotes circle my old dog, Tessa, years ago. We were in the hay mow of the born, looking down into the field below. They were darting in at her hindquarters, each in turn as she spun. Luckily, we saw what was going on in time to holler and run them off of her. They would have killed her if we hadn't interrupted their fun.

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Except they weren't doing it for FUN, they were doing it for territory and food.

You said kill 'em. You didn't say legal. Leg quarters soaked in antifreeze will kill 'em. A bottle of aspirins crushed into hamburger meat will kill them. Certain snare sets will kill them. Some types of jump traps will put a hurt on them.

And no, you don't shine a spotlight across a field when using night vision. You just kill them.

Yes, if one is really set on doing away with them, you have to pen your dogs and only go after them on your own land.

But if you are tenacious and ruthless, you can move them on or wipe them out.

Jolly, Have you ever seen a dog die from antifreeze poisoning? It is WAY to cruel even for Coyotes. Weak animals can die in as "little" as 5 hours - stronger animals can go days or weeks suffering. Their kidneys and liver slowly shut down but they don't die until they are bleeding from every hole connected to the digestive tract. As the body breaks down antifreeze, it turns to acid among other things - eating their bodies from the inside out. I will shoot / trap/ snare and kill every coyote I can to reduce the population, but I would never allow any of my family or buddies to kill them off with antifreeze! It is just so unethical never mind illegal!

Coyotes are smart and adaptable. Different populations are going to have different behaviors. We have a lot of coyotes in our area but haven't had problems from them. So as long as they don't learn to sneak in the daytime and grab chickens, and don't bother young calves, we'll let them be.

But other places, coyotes have learned that they can take a newborn calf, I've even heard of them attacking during the birth. Or "baiting" a lone dog out away from home and killing it. Lambs and kids are very vulnerable. So everyone's solution to coyotes is going to be different, depending on the behavior of their local coyote population and which domestic animals they need to protect. Some people have to hunt them out because they have learned bad habits, others don't.

There isn't any specific "right way" or "wrong way" to handle them, IMO. Just try to make sure they don't ever get a meal at your place.

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Where I used to live, the coydogs were far more numerous and dangerous than the coyotes. I have never lost any poultry/livestock from coyotes.....the farmers in the area got together and made war on the coydogs that were killing or maiming calves, even attacking horses. Coyotes kill to live, coydogs kill for pleasure

I was raised in the country, when kids still rode horses to school. Country people were the salt of the earth, but they were practical to the utmost. They had to be, there just wasn't enough money or resources to go at it any other way.

If you had too many puppies or kittens, you drowned them. Or, I've seen my grandmother just pick them up and whack them against a tree. Chickens, you wrung their neck. Hogs, you killed with a clawhammer. Beeves, you killed with a sledgehammer. Bullets cost money.

Now, if you had a problem with an animal eating down your garden, killing your chickens or in any way endangering your livestock and working animals, you dispatched it. Maybe humanely, maybe not...It all depended on how smart the critter was you were trying to kill.

Now, nobody likes to see an animal suffer, but if it's a choice between one of my small pigs or newborn calves being eaten and Wiley E. dying, I'm going to try to find a quick and practical solution.

That's just me, you're more than welcome to your own opinion.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Rich. They had plenty to eat - the mortality from the chicken grow operation was laid out daily on the hill side (different field) for raptors to take. Coyotes had free access from the woods to that field, so I doubt they were hungry. Might have been for territory, but not from hunger. They really seemed to be enjoying themselves.

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seasonal trapping not just this year but each year is the best management tool for coyotes , the fur is taken at it's prime and best for garments , the meat can be eaten , and it works day and night with a 24 hour check that for some is as easy as drive through the hay field or down a logging road checking traps set around the edges without ever getting out , when one is caught it can be humanily dispatched , or if non target animals are caught they can be released unharmed


poison is Illegal in most places , you would be in a lot of trouble if a raptor got to your poisoned bait


trapping can be done out of season if you call the warden and tell them what you are trying to catch and keep them updated some places this requires an ADC license but trapping is a great tool , use it

problems need to be dealt with , but dealt with smart

I've lost many chickens and cats to coyotes. And I've blasted some coyotes with my .22 or my shotgun. If I happen to see one hanging around I will certainly take a shot at it. But over the years I've learned to keep my animals penned up at night and not let my goats and chickens free range unless my dog and I can keep and eye on them. The coyotes have always been here and always will be, no matter how many of them people kill. Besides, for every cat they eat they probably eat 100 mice and rats. I've heard that coyotes will ambush dogs but I've never seen it. In fact my little 40 lb blue heeler has chased many of them off. I think they avoid tangling with dogs if they can. They can't afford any injuries.

So I just keep an eye on my critters and keep my shotgun handy, and enjoy the coyote music.

Yep, I think a big dog is key to keeping yotes at bay. The problem is that one of our dogs is almost 12 years old and no threat to a predator. The next is 11 and has a bad knee and the smallest wouldn't be able to fight off a yote but may be able to out run one. Those three I worry about.

Last night we were sitting in the family room about 8 PM when they started up again. This time the sound was coming all around us from the neighboring timber and was loud enough even though the house is closed up, to hear them clearly. I told my husband that I was going to sleep tonight, grabbed my .38, went out onto the back deck and fired off a round into the nearby berm.

Silence...except for a lone neighbor's dog who was still barking at the yotes. We didn't hear another peep out of them.

I know that they are a part of the ecosystem and have a job to do. I just find it unsettling and yes, with pets and soon to have a flock of chickens, worrisome that their numbers seem to be increasing in the area.

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Our coyote population tends to cycle with the rabbit population. The coyotes eat the rabbits down for a couple of years then the coyote numbers dwindle as they move to other areas. A year or so later when the rabbits rebound so do the coyotes.

I have never heard of anyone around us losing a healthy calf to a coyote. I've seen them cut through a herd of cattle and neither species paid the other much mind. We've been lucky in that we've not lost any chickens or sheep to them but both are brought in from the big fields at night to smaller better protected pens.

All in all, they have not been much of a problem to the farmers around us in terms of livestock loss in the 20+ years we have lived here. Most everyone that goes in the woods takes a gun with them as there have been a couple of run-ins with them there and they can get aggresive when pups are around.

The dog and cat population has taken a much harder hit as several of our neighbors have lost them to the coyotes. We've never lost a lamb to a predator and as far as the chickens, we have more problems with hawks, coons and possums.

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We have owls, hawks and yes even bald eagles to worry about when it comes to protecting our new flock. We saw a mature eagle over the weekend roosting in a tree about a mile or so from our farm and several years ago caught a barred owl taking a squirrel out in our back yard in broad daylight. Red tailed hawks nest across the road from us.

Back in Illinois our vet BH (before homesteading) told me that there was an epidemic of reports of people seeing owls taking their cats and because they are a protected species they were helpless to do anything about it.....legally.

As for our rabbit population around us I don't think it is any higher or lower. But. The Amish man show pastures his sheep, horses and a few steers in the pasture east of us recently moved his livestock back to their home pasture in November and with them the LGD that was guarding them.

When the dog's away.......

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