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  #41  
Old 12/25/14, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Fire-Man View Post
As stated before----this went through a lawyer/probate because there were several people in the will, several with only Life time rights to the property---Its a Done deal. The Mother has a life-time right to do what ever she wants---she can even sell the timber on it if she wanted---she can not sell it though without the friend agreeing and they both sign papers.

Its not whether the friend owns it or not---he does and has papers to prove so----its her Life time right----she/he never payed any inheritance tax on it and she was wondering if when she dies or gives up her lifetime right----will he have to pay inheritance tax then??? She was thinking being there was none payed after the Will was done that maybe the tax is due when her life-time was over---either death or giving up her right. Thats the question?

The Will was probated years ago! Everyone got what was left in the Will to them---some have sold their part.
So if I understand you correctly, the grandmother's will was committed to deed through probate. In other words, the grandmother's estate went through probate and a deed for the property was issued that reflected the grandmother's wishes. If that's the case then the only thing that matters today is what's on the deed. The current grantee information on the deed should be something similar to what I suggested earlier. Something like this:

Mary Jane Doe for the life of her, then a vested remainder to John Q. Doe

(If the grantees are presented significantly different than that, please let us know)

That being the case, the mother owns the property right now. She can do whatever she wants with the property, including leasing it, or even selling all or part it. If she does any of those things then she can keep the money. After all, it's her property right now.

If the mother does not sell the property then the son will receive that property upon her death. If it's a life estate for his mother with him receiving the remainder after her death, he will take possession of the property by filing an affidavit with the county recorder. The affidavit should state that the life estate is terminated because his mother has passed away, and he will need to attach a certified copy of his mother's death certificate to the affidavit. No court intervention should be required, and he shouldn't even need a lawyer to do it. Here's an example of a typical affidavit for that purpose.

https://www.fidelityedesk.com/Articl...6672b267c2.pdf

Is that what you wanted to know?
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  #42  
Old 12/25/14, 03:25 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tennessee
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Originally Posted by Nevada View Post
I'm not sure what "lifetime right" means, but I think we're talking about a "life estate" in this thread. A life estate is a way of granting ownership right on real property for the life of a person, then having the property ownership revert to another person at death.

In a life estate she has full ownership rights. She can elect to live or not live on the property. She can also develop the property any way she likes, lease it out, or even sell it if she pleases.

During a life estate the person named to receive the property after death has no ownership rights during the life estate, and would have no claim to the property if the person with the life estate decides to sell before her death.
Not in the two States I know about if one sold their life estate rights still at her death it reverts back to the intended recipient .Life estate is self explanatory Nothing hard about it
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  #43  
Old 12/25/14, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Sawmill Jim View Post
Not in the two States I know about if one sold their life estate rights still at her death it reverts back to the intended recipient .Life estate is self explanatory Nothing hard about it
So the person who buys property from a person who has a life estate only owns it until the seller dies? I never heard of that, but laws can vary from state to state.
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  #44  
Old 12/25/14, 06:21 PM
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Carolina
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Originally Posted by Nevada View Post
The current grantee information on the deed should be something similar to what I suggested earlier. Something like this:

Mary Jane Doe for the life of her, then a vested remainder to John Q. Doe

(If the grantees are presented significantly different than that, please let us know)

That being the case, the mother owns the property right now. She can do whatever she wants with the property, including leasing it, or even selling all or part it. If she does any of those things then she can keep the money. After all, it's her property right now.

If the mother does not sell the property then the son will receive that property upon her death.
https://www.fidelityedesk.com/Articl...6672b267c2.pdf

Is that what you wanted to know?
No, its not that way. The deed states the land was left to "John Doe"(the son) with his mother(Her Name) a life-time right.

His mother can do what she wants with the land----even run the Son off if she wants, But She can Not Sell a Foot of it----It belongs to the Son---she just gets to use it like she wants as long as she lives.
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  #45  
Old 12/27/14, 12:31 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MN
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Originally Posted by Fire-Man View Post
No, its not that way. The deed states the land was left to "John Doe"(the son) with his mother(Her Name) a life-time right.

His mother can do what she wants with the land----even run the Son off if she wants, But She can Not Sell a Foot of it----It belongs to the Son---she just gets to use it like she wants as long as she lives.
Yes exactly, this is good and proper.

Any estate taxes should have been paid 25 years ago by grandmas estate, before the deeds were written and handed out. Mom would not pay the estate taxes; they would have come from other assets grandma had. The estate pays them, not the person getting the property. (Sometimes the property needs to be sold to pay the taxes, but obviously not the case here.) lawyer would have gotten that right back then.

Since the property is now in the sons name, there should not be any estate taxes to deal with. Mom is only listed as a temporary camper on the property, not an owner. So it is not hers, it should not be in her estate, it should not be revalued nor taxed.

It is already the sons property. Mom owns a lease, not any property. When she dies the lease ends; so it has no value at her death. There is nothing to tax.

Unless something unusual happened to mess things up, or it isn't actually as they say.......

There will be no taxes on the sons property, he simply will own it free and clear without the life estate clause attached to it. He already owns the property. It is outside of moms estate; the only thing mom owns is the 'use' of the property. She does not own the property.

Paul
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  #46  
Old 12/27/14, 12:44 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MN
Posts: 7,610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada View Post
So if I understand you correctly, the grandmother's will was committed to deed through probate. In other words, the grandmother's estate went through probate and a deed for the property was issued that reflected the grandmother's wishes. If that's the case then the only thing that matters today is what's on the deed. The current grantee information on the deed should be something similar to what I suggested earlier. Something like this:

Mary Jane Doe for the life of her, then a vested remainder to John Q. Doe

(If the grantees are presented significantly different than that, please let us know)

That being the case, the mother owns the property right now. She can do whatever she wants with the property, including leasing it, or even selling all or part it. If she does any of those things then she can keep the money. After all, it's her property right now.

If the mother does not sell the property then the son will receive that property upon her death. If it's a life estate for his mother with him receiving the remainder after her death, he will take possession of the property by filing an affidavit with the county recorder. The affidavit should state that the life estate is terminated because his mother has passed away, and he will need to attach a certified copy of his mother's death certificate to the affidavit. No court intervention should be required, and he shouldn't even need a lawyer to do it. Here's an example of a typical affidavit for that purpose.

https://www.fidelityedesk.com/Articl...6672b267c2.pdf

Is that what you wanted to know?
That would be a terribly poor way to set anything up, as its totally useless! If you have something like that see a lawyer, its hogwash. Get something proper set up.

What you are describing is closer to a revocable trust, which is basically worthless as it doesn't help with taxes and it deoesnt promise anything to anyone, just kinda sorta if I die and haven't spent it all you might get it if the govt doesn't take it...... All of which is pointless, you can more easily do that with a will, not on the deed.

What fireman has been describing is an irrevocable trust. You give something to someone (the sin in this case) and it is theirs. But you place a trust onto it, so that another person may use the property (mom, in this case) as long as they live. You chisel it all in stone, so to speak, so that mom can use it, but son owns it. Very nice way to pass property to grandchildren but not exclude the children, and not get messed up by health care costs and such.

Seriously, if you have the version you describe, look into visiting with a tax/ estate planner and getting something much better written up.

You can do a life estate to you children as well, doesn't have to skip a generation. But to be worthwhile, you can be allowed to make changes, it has to be irrevocable.

Paul
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