So I am going to grow wheat organically?

Send these guys an email with your needs they should be able to get you a price. http://www.perdueagrirecycle.com

I started off telling you that the manure comes pelleted so it is easily spread.

From googleing... It seems to cost about 300 (80 pounds of N) a ton delivered across Canada. That would be enough for about an acre and a half from what I've read... about 50? That means your fert bill would be about 11 cents per a pound of yield @ 30 bushel an acre.... It would come in at about where my first post supposed. About double.

I do not understand your cost there. You are saying it costs 300 dollars a ton, which has 80 lbs of n in it? So the analysis is 4% N? Sorry, maybe I misunderstood... For 70 bushel wheat I would need to apply around 100 lbs of actual nitrogen an acre, 60 lbs of P, 30 of K, and 15 of S according to my soil test needs.

Are you getting 70 bushels of wheat on your conventional fields, Dale? Because we grow a decent amount of wheat around here but I'm not sure anyone gets 70 bushels. A more common yield would be about 50-60 bushels.

We grow several different classes of wheat, depending on market outlooks and growing season outlooks.

Soft White Spring can yield up to 100 or more, but it is a poor quality, low protein wheat.

Hard Red Spring wheat, a very good milling wheat, will yield up to 60 or so.

Canada Prairie Spring, is the wheat I am talking about. It is a middle quality wheat, and will yield 60 to 80 or more.

Finally our Hard Red Winter wheat will yield from 70 to 100 as well, but we find it hard to seed it in a timely manner, ( getting the crop ahead of it off soon enough to seed by Early Sept. is tricky most years!), so we don't grow it as much as I would like.

We are in a high rainfall area, our yields often match or come close to western Canadian irrigated area yields.

Hope this helps...

Ok, Stan, I see they have two fertilizers, a 7-2-2, and a 3-2-3. In Delaware.

If I used the 7-2-2, I would need to apply 1428 lbs an acre to get the N I would need for my target yield. That 1428 lb application rate, would also give me 28 lbs of P, and the same amount of K. So the k would be close, but the P would be only about half of needed. This would cost me about 214 dollars an acre, if it were in my yard, and not in Delaware. For the equivalent blend of commercial fertilizer, i would have to apply about 250lbs of product, vs. the 1428. So I am handling 6 times the product. If I were spreading it on, I would be able to do 50 acres a fill with my regular fertilizer, but only 8 acres a fill with their organic stuff. More or less double the app rates and such for their 3-2-3. Now, my cost for commercial fertilizer equivalent would be right around 100 bucks an acre. And then there is only .76% S in the organic stuff.

So I would need to get shipped to me, for 400 acres of wheat, 285 tons of product. From Delaware.

These are some of the problems I am getting at here. Feasibility is such a concern. Such high rates of product are needed, that machinery issues occur. I have nothing that could apply such a high rate accurately. I would spend way too much time filling the spreader or drill. I do not have bin space to hold 280 tons of fertilizer.

How does thatcher compare in your conventional fields, or if you don't grow it how does is produce locally?

Dale, you can always talk yourself out of doing business.

Your question was it possible. It has been shown to be most certainly possible. It's more work, Different equipment would help, it will have a different cost structure. But it can pay and most certainly be done.

if things are perfect for a big period of time...LOL
While Dale's out spreading extra fertilizer that front is coming through to dump a few inches of rain that will delay planting and cause yet another trip or two over the field to bust the crust.
All this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum or in the blink of an eye.

Personally I think you're going about it all wrong Dale. You need to rent your organic ground, complain about the cost of carrying the certification and get the rent knocked down to a third of conventional. Till up the pasture or grass that exists, plant it to corn and get what you get. Then next year you can either plant it down to a hay crop again(You can talk about how pelleted duck manure is soooo expensive and how you are planting a legume and that will take care of everything) or maybe just cut whatever grows back naturally and mine that soil for all it's worth.

__________________
Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

I don't think at this point in time it is realistic to grow organic wheat in large quantities. You may have the same trouble getting it to market as you have getting soil amendments to you fields. Selling 440 acres of wheat to the end user, many of which would be in another country is, I think, not realistic either. It sounds like the costs would simply be prohibitive.

I would like to do a trial to see how it would compare. Thatcher came out in the 30's, and has not been grown since the 50's, but I have a small sample I would LOVE to breed. The older guys around say it was susceptible to rust, which is not good as I am definitely in a rust prone area. It would be cool to see just how advanced we have gotten, if at all. Of course these old varieties were never grown under today's input regime, so who knows?

Good question. A lot of selection has been for disease resistance, midge tolerance, straw strength, protein content, yield, height, etc. I would not be surprised if either these old cultivars, A, do very well under today's agronomy, or B, fall flat on their faces in the face of disease, good fertility, high moisture, etc.

Hard to say unless one tries. I would love to try...

It is sort of possible, if one has bags of cash to get the fertilizer out here, and if you have a 40 ton spreader so that you spend the time in the field spreading rather than filling.

Another thing, is I, seed place my P and K, and S. I would have to find a better blend for that purpose.

Yes, in theory it can be done. In practical terms, it would be impossible.

I do thank you for your input, it did help, and I will keep looking!

The selling is actually fairly easy, as the demand is high and there are many well established buyers. You are correct, the costs look like they would be much higher though.

The growing? I mean the growing well and efficiently? Not looking good...

Marketing marketing marketing! http://www.montanaflour.com/100-orga...for-sprouting/

Believe me when I say that this might not be the answer, but it may be worth looking into.

Comfrey is a perennial plant that has already shown that is can be grown in Saskatchewan and has a remarkable NPK ratio of 1.80-0.50-5.30. I am not sure if these ratios are in line with what you need, but when compared to other manures it is quite easy to see that comfrey has a much higher NPK ratio.

Dairy Cow: .25-.15-.25
Steer: .70-.30-.40
Horse: .70-.30-.60
Sheep: .70-.30-.90
Chicken: 1.1-.80-.50
Rabbit: 2.4-1.4-.60

It is also said to be high in macro- and micro nutrients due to it deep growing roots.

It can be an invasive plant, particularly if you plant the non-sterile varieties. Therefore, you may want to stick to the varieties that are sterile.

I would think that you would have to use it as a liquid fertilizer, but it easily breaks down by itself with just a little water added within three weeks.

http://www.organicgardening.com/lear.../comfrey-power
http://gentleworld.org/the-wonders-of-comfrey/#NPK ratio of Comfrey

http://www.usask.ca/soilsncrops/conf...99docs/414.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfrey

Just saying... It might not be the sole answer to your fertilizing problems, but it may help quite a bit. Particularly with your "K" needs.

So, if you were to set aside a bit of acreage for comfrey cultivation and it being perennial, it looks like you may save on the annual transportation costs of shipping fertilizer from places like Delaware. You would have to spend some money on the initial planting of the comfrey and perhaps a means to do large scale processing of the leaves, but these would be pretty much one time expenditures. You just might be able to become self-sufficient in the fertilization department.

Something to look into???

TRellis