So I am going to grow wheat organically?

another large commercial farmer..

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I may at some point, but truly, his climate is so very different than mine is. It is like a guy in death valley offering advice to a guy in the wilds of Maine, about how to grow something! lol.

That doesn't matter, it's a good lead and you shouldn't allow climate differences to be an obstacle to you in something that you're making enquiries about for starters. You should contact the guy anyway because regardless of climate you have to understand, as a farmer, he is still going to be able to provide you with certain kinds of organic farming information that will be useful to you as a beginner under any climate conditions.

And for all you know at this point, it's possible the fellow already has a lot of knowledge or even lots of past personal experience with growing in your climate before moving to where he is now. Or he might have relatives or associates that are growing organic wheat near your locale and/or in similar climate to you that he can refer you to them or hook you up with them.

First, I said I may call him. Ummm, yes, climate is everything in farming. Seriously, Maple Creek is like a different world, relative to here. I can not think of two more different regions in Saskatchewan. I can not think of a single farming practice that the two areas would have in common. What will work for a farmer near Kamloops, will most definitely not work for a farmer in the Comox Valley. (love that place!!!), or Fort ST. John.

True, regarding maybe he lived elsewhere before, and has some experience. But honestly, you would not leave a climate, soil, and countryside similar to mine, and move to a place like Maple creek, without a gun to your head. Indeed, many have left that area, and moved here, because of the soil, the climate, and the beauty. Do not mean it as a sleight, the Cypress hills are lovely, but it is a DRY, DRY, DRY land, with POOR soils, and a terrible farming climate...

Yes, he well may know some folks around here who farm organically, long shot though it may be.

On our municipal maps, the organic quarters are marked out in yellow or orange, so that when a custom sprayer goes in to spray, he knows to try to avoid the organic fields with drift etc. Normally you do not need a map, you just look for the most pathetic, weedy crop in the neighborhood, and try not to overlap onto it!

The guys who farm(ed) organically near me, went organic not because they believe in it, but because of financial pressure/inability to buy inputs, and most have either quit and sold out, or have returned to conventional farming because of organic farmings impossible challenges.

So this is all part of me asking more questions. I have seen the organic failures all around me, and wonder and think there must be a better way. A much better way. I would like to find it.

Elkhound, I liked a fair bit of that video, ( did not like some of it AT ALL!!) thanks. He was a lot better spoken than the guys around these parts, and seemed to know some of his stuff indeed. He would be more in line of my climate type too.

Thanks, both!

Dale

It doesn't sound to me like you have any intentions of doing any organic farming. It sounds to me like you are taking this opportunity to highlight the shortcomings of organic farming and organic farmers' failures in order to justify your methods to a handful of skeptics... there is no need to do that.

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NO! If I do it, I want to do it better. IF there is a way. Locally, what is being done organically is being done pathetically. I KNOW there must be a better way, but none of the locals use nutrients, they mine the soil, and they do a poor overall job. I have the land, but before I do it, I want to know I actually can do it well, and not how it has been done around here.

If some folks learn it is not as simple as they think, so much the better, but as our flock grows, and we need more hay, it is something I am considering as I take out the hay and in rotation. The easiest way to get certified for me, would be to just not fertilize my hay for a few years, otherwise transition is a nightmare...

I have this conundrum though: The local organic people are not really the type who I would emulate. I need to go to a meeting here this winter, and hopefully meet some of the more progressive types, and learn from them. That and do some serious driving about this summer, municipal maps in hand, and hopefully run across some organic land and crops that look reasonable, and talk to those kind of guys...

I don't think you'll find the more progressive organic farmers at organic meetings. The handful I know who are in it to last tend to avoid other organic growers like the plague.

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And that is the thing, hey? It is hard to explain to the non farmers what goes on in farming of all kinds. I will maybe try my map idea...

Lots of permaculturists grow grains successfully. I'd do it that way.

Would it be cost effective to set up 400+ acres of permaculture? I thought that was more of a smaller scale thing.

To be honest, I am finding some leads. Actually elkhounds last video was the closest thing I have seen to what I am after. I would like to contact that guy, he seems to have some success, his crops were fairly clean, and did look fairly decent. And he is in a climate zone like mine, good and moist, shorter season, good black soil...

Many within the organic crowd preach it like a religion and I like to avoid them as well. Therein lies the rub. They may have information (what works and what does not work) that I and/or Dale could use, but we both would rather not have to deal with some of their other idiosyncrasies.

The only suggestions I can offer are to prepare to get out of your comfort zone, which I believe Dale will have to do in order to get local data. And/or, spend a lot of time conversing with those that are seemingly successful and figure out ways to make it work on his acreage.

I actually believe that both groups will be found to provide some useful information.

TRellis

http://rodaleinstitute.org/our-work/organic-no-till/

Well, I hardly ever actually log in around here, usually just browse to learn. I am about the last person to ask about larger farm practices....I think a lot of what I pay attention to is more intensive management of smaller acreage. I sometimes see these crimpers, I think they are used in no till organic systems....I think the gist is kill cover crops in place with the crimper and a specialized seed drill plants in the in place mulch as opposed to chemical kill of plant matter...

These and other methods work good on weeds and cover crops but not in established grass. Grass needs controlled first because the roots regenerate the sod. Things like summer fallow to dry out and remove soil from the sods to kill the root system....James

The fertilizer requirements are the same for organic and conventional. When you purchase your fert. You will know the rate to use... The NPK of various stuff is readily available. Why are you so worried about this info. It's literally everywhere.

http://bit.ly/1uIIuM9

I am not worried. I simply can find no local grower, no local source, and no trials on fertilizer of any kind locally at least.

Edited, double post, sorry.

Why must it be locally sourced? Standard fert isn't made local. Shipping will be significant I'm sure but it already is. No?

It takes much more volume of natural fertilizer per acre then it does chemical fertilizer.

My commercial fertilizer comes to our area by the tens of thousands of tonnes. Lots, (N) is made an hour away. sulfur is local and imported, and P is mostly imported. Saskatchewan is one of the worlds largest producers of K. My point is, sourcing organic fertilizer that will run through my air drill is not easy, because I have no idea where to look, because no organic farmers around use any, so I have no one to ask...

If I can find someone relatively local who makes the effort and actually tries to optimize fertility on their organic land, I will be away!

Stan, had you posted some granular fertilizer sources in earlier posts? If you had, I had never noticed. I will go back and have a look.

If organic fertility is as simple as you say it should be, it would be excellent! Especially as I would be the only guy using these products anywhere around my area...