So I am going to grow wheat organically?

So you don't believe there is a market for organic grain?

250,000 isn't a huge amount of money for an operation his size. His "normal" crop would be worth about the same. His inputs would be much less, with about the same profit potential.

If he was to ask... Note he didn't. I'd suggest he do 40 acres as a test. He can plant the rest as he has been. See how it goes. It won't break the bank if it doesn't go as planned.

I like to go into something with a business plan. I might not have a guaranteed buyer in place but I darned sure would want to have a target goal and it would be unwise to just jump in with no goals.

I would agree with you on the test crop but I think many have suggested that large scale organic crops are simple so he's looking at a larger parcel to give them the opportunity to advise him on how to it is done on a large scale.

Because that's how traditional farming works…
That's what agronomists do.

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~*~Erin~*~
SAHM, ranch wife, sub and quilt shop proprietress
the Back Gate Country Quilt Shop

I totally agree! A business plan that includes..
How much you will grow.
How you will grow it.
How much it will cost to grow.
How much the market price is.

All the above are valid questions that need solid answers.

The how, when, where of selling it will be the worry till you sell. But you can contact buyers in advance to gauge need. But you can't know where it's going till you sell it and you can't sell what you don't have.

I believe if you are going to go organic that you will have to use an accepted organic fertilizer.

Bob

Thing is, the land is ready to be organic, it is coming out of long term hay land . So if I do do it, I am not going to wreck 90% of the acres by making it "non-organic", at which point I would have to wait three years to re-certify. Growing grain is not a novelty for me. At least not enough to scare me from growing a reasonable crop, if I could find the proper nutrients and weed control.

As far as selling a crop like this, there are many who seed many more acres than this, there are lots of options out there for selling.

One of the more scary things I see as I research this further, is that when I find websites extolling the virtues of organic farming, it becomes clear that many folks do nothing much for fertility, but they DO plant by the moon, and pig spleen signs, and other such questionable stuff. Like that will magically add 140 lbs of n to the soil, 70 lbs P, and so on...

I am more a science guy. But these are the types that are leading meetings, field days and stuff. Thing is, THEY won't even help, because their whole theory seems to be based on wives tales, along with the oft repeated "rotation" mantra, as though only organic guys use crop rotations, manure, and cover crops.

Having trouble finding tangible help, even locally. Little wonder there are no local supplies of organic fertilizers; I bet it would be easier to find moon beam refractors, and pig spleen charts in their literature, than it would be to find application methods and rates. That is a large part of my trouble finding more fertility information...

Rather than sharing that you should cut off thistles right before a rain of no less than 14 mm, at night, when the moon is waxing, and the old man is snoring, I simply wish they would help with the real fertility needs of would be organic farmers, you know?

The wheat farmers around here all forward contract their wheat. Most is sold before harvest, depending on the price. You don't want to have several thousand acres of wheat and have no idea what it will sell for. Some of the 2015 crop is locked in already.

Very true for thousands of acres... Not so much for 40

I know your a numbers fella,

That's why I said to work them. Nutrient will be a significant cost. You will need to have it trucked in if your exporting nutrient...AKA grain.

The positives are if you can figure it out you can make more on less acres with less inputs. You really have to find a niche.

Nutrient in My opinion isn't the big hurdle. It's simply expensive. The big deal will be dealing with the weeds.

He is a homesteader (although he will say none of us are because he has a strict historical definition of the word) but that doesn't make growing 400 acres of a commodity crop a homesteading topic...you don't see the doctor and waitress who are also homesteaders asking questions about doctoring and waitressing, do you?

http://northerngraingrowers.org/wp-c...gfertwwyr1.pdf

Study of winter wheat grown in plots with different types of organic fertilizer applications. I cannot copy and paste the article here due to pdf formatting.

http://butterworksfarm.com/crops.html
We grow a variety of hay and grain crops on 350 acres of land. Mineralized soils, high in organic matter, produce three cuts of hay for a deluxe "cow salad". Many different varieties of grass and legumes grow and thrive in our hayfields. Timothy, brome, fescue, orchard grass, alfalfa, and an assortment of clovers feed our herd well and are essential to the rich color, sweet taste and creaminess of the milk all winter long.
Over 150 acres of grain crops are raised here for livestock and people to eat as well as for seed to plant the following year. Corn, oats, barley, peas and soybeans we grow are used in mixtures we grind here for the animals. Early Riser is a special corn variety we grow for seed and cornmeal. Its orange color, and heavy texture are perfect for the high quality, fresh ground cornmeal our customers love. Wheat, open pollinated corn, spelt, rye, sunflowers and dry beans are grown in rotation with the other crops to provide excellent quality, nutritious local whole grain, flours, meals and oil for ourselves and our community.

Perhaps contacting someone who is growing crops organically on a similar scale might work as he is also a contributing author to the Northern Grain Association.

Trial information is available on 2013 winter wheat at the University of Vermont: http://www.uvm.edu/extension/cropsoi...WVT-Report.pdf

I can't offer information on HOW to grow something I have not grown before, but I can offer some sources of information from people who are actually doing it.

__________________
Be yourself - no one can tell you that you're doing it wrong!

Well, I am glad you found some stuff. I have looked all over though, and so far can not find a source for organic fertilizers locally. Most of the sites are seriously lacking in number of lbs. per acre information. I will check your suggestions out, thank you.

Sorry for sounding contemptuous to some. I have apologized, and will again. It is a touchy subject, and it is so hard to not make it that way, because of what I am finding in my diggings. But the truth is, when I look at my local organic people, and try to find tangible numbers, I see pig spleens and moonlight. For real. They truly are the people leading the meetings and such.

I guess I should attend a meeting and ask there what they do... I would be good with that. I do not mind meetings. Or asking questions...

I think the thing most people seem to be missing is that good solid information on this thread will help more than farmerDale.

Many smaller holdings still may want to raise enough wheat to feed their own family and if we tell every member to 'go look up their own information,' nobody benefits.

If this was a new homesteader who wanted to seed 10 acres of organic wheat, everybody would be glad to offer suggestions but when a Saskatchewan grain farmer offers us the chance to brainstorm and share ideas, he's being told he's wrong to ask.

Is that because those who have previously said it can be done, aren't as confident or they just aren't sure about Saskatchewan climate?

Yes , there have been plenty of waitress questions, doctors have asked questions about practices but most people wouldn't understand medical questions a doc might ask, and this is not the place for it anyway.

I don't see Dale being nasty, but he has sure gotten plenty of nasty comments--maybe some jealousy involved? Can't anyone be a homesteader? Why does farming professionally make him any less a homesteader than a truck driver, a nurse or a teacher? Does he have too much land? Even tho his garden is not a part of his commercial farm and he and his family live a homesteading life style? There are some here that don't like trucks on the roads burning fossil fuel, they don't like modern medicine, and others that think public schools are wrong. Do we toss them off too because they don't meet some peoples standards? How do you decide who is a homesteader? Why do you have the right to decide?

I read one of the posted website about organic farming, the one from Manitoba. It is suggesting inter planting other crops with wheat to help keep the weeds down and improve the soil. I don't understand how this would work on large acreage. The market for wheat mixed with rye or field peas is going to be rather limited.50% something not wheat in your wheat crop is going to effect the price you get for your crop. How do you separate the types of grain at harvest? They will end up in the same place, and combining them together is going to cause problems for the farmer. Dale is asking a complex question, one that there doesn't seem to be a good answer for. The people with all the answers are very quiet.

No one else's opinion of what a homesteader is needs to influence what a person's own opinion is--- unless they agree. :P It also has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand.

I thought I was anti GMO and pro Organic... but the problem is, someone like me who is still learning has lots of red flags going up because of frantic dis-information and eager, backed into the corner style attacks. I was hoping to learn something about the possibilities of professional level organics but I haven't really. ~shrug~

Molly, they USED to plant wheat in the corn rows after the last cultivation. That kept the weeds down, AND gave the wheat a head start by some months. The wheat would only be around a foot tall therebouts by time to pick corn. Driving over it wouldn't hurt it so much.

Am I correct in thinking that you have this 400 acres that can presently be certified organic and you are trying to decide whether to actually try using it all for an organic wheat crop or just use it for a non-organic crop?

If you cannot determine how to make it work organically in the next little bit you will plant it non-organically so it does not lose money for you by sitting fallow for another season? And then you would have to wait another three years to be able to have it certified organic?

I am just trying to get everything straight in my mind.

TRellis

Some years back I planted oats on some winter wheat. The wheat had winter killed and was very thin, so I drilled oats in that spring for weed control. My results were very good until I tried to market the mix. None of the coops would buy it because it was neither oats or wheat, and couldn't be separated. Luckily I had bin space to store the whole 15 acres worth. It did make good cattle feed when ground, but that wasn't my goal, and if I didn't have livestock it would have been worthless.

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* I'm supposed to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder for me to find one. .*-

I really hope this thread isn't closed. I never saw what Pretty Paisley posted, so that is maybe good?