If you farm wheat commercially

Oh my goodness…what is wrong with spelt????

I also wanted to thank you for picking this up from that other thread. This has been an interesting discussion for sure!

Nothing wrong with spelt at all. Just how it is raised is the problem.

It might suggest that GMOs or glyphosate are not the sole contributors but I don't necessarily see the references above as saying that they have no contribution at all.

If one wanted to look at it from a slightly different vantage point, pediatric cancer rates did not go down after GMOs or glyphosate were introduced either.

I haven't looked up dates of introduction or looked into what other things might have been potential environmental factors that could have contributed to said cancer rates. It would be interesting if someone had the time. But the problem is often that the person looking is doing so with a bias toward finding what they're looking for, not necessarily the facts of the matter. On one side, people insist that GMOs and glyphosate do damage to people, and there are a lot of sick people out there. On the other side, people insist that GMOs and glyphosate have no ill effects on anyone. And each has their "studies", no matter how bogus or bought, to say exactly what they want them to say. And companies like Monsanto have a LOT of money to buy research that says most anything they want it to say.

Perhaps gmo / Roundup causes most of the worlds ills.

Your study, showing children's cancers rose in the 1970s before gmo/ Roundup and did not change as gmo/ Roundup came into common use, is a very strong indicator that children's cancer is -not- caused by gmo/ Roundup.

In addition to TV/ air conditioning and microwaves influencing diet and exercise at that time, there were a lot of experimental drugs being used in the 60s and through the 70s by people just entering child bearing age. Hum.

I can't prove a one of them, but at least the timeline fits the cancer trend, so my weak theories are far more likely than gmo/ Roundup being a cause, which does not fit the timeline.

Thanks.

Paul

Paul, I am glad you are convinced of the wonderful attributes of GMOs and RoundUp. Enjoy them. Hope you won't be upset with those of us who choose not to buy those products and seek out alternatives not grown with them. Some of us just aren't convinced they're harmless, including several respectable countries of the world.

I'll put it this way... If you're right and I'm wrong, what has it cost me? A little extra money or some time and effort (maybe even joy and satisfaction) to grow it myself. If I'm right and you're wrong what will it cost you? Perhaps a few years of your life, a lower quality of life or even a compromise in the integrity of your offspring. Maybe you care, maybe you don't, that's your prerogative.

Flag on the play....

The only game that is getting old is your game of coming here making outlandish claims then crying that you are being picked on when you are shown that they are wrong.

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Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

I, (The Crew), did not jump up and down, I explained how spelt is grown on organic farms. I am not trying to discredit you, I am offering facts for you from farming country. I don't care an iota what you buy, I do not care what is lining grocery shelves, so long as we all have choice.

Spelt is just fine. But it is grown using LOTS of fossil fuels and lots of tillage which is hell on soils. It is not awful to buy it, it is just grown using soil mining techniques.

Wheat is not hybridized, it is conventionally bred. Neither is it covered in chemicals.

Pretty Paisley, it is time to take a step back, recognize we are not all against you, but are trying to share factual farming techniques with you, so you can live a fuller, less fearful life.

Posts like the above, where suddenly you start mocking (The Crew) yet again, do not help your cause. I can't help it that bees here are not dying, that Spelt is raised in an agronomically poor way. It is just the way things are. If you say your bees are dying, fine, I believe you. If you say your Spelt you buy uses less fossil fuels, and is not mining the soil fine. I am not going to mock that.

This site is about sharing experiences. Condescending and mocking others is a strange way to have dialogue, is it not?

Just remember, being factual is not being mean. It is being factual. Please do not take it so personally.

See you around!

Shannon if your "facts "were actually facts, and you did real research, maybe it would make a difference. You have never explained how the world population is going to be fed if all food is grown organically. A good yield in a back yard garden, or even a good sized commercial garden does not mean you can grow the same way on hundreds of acres. Farmers are not the horrible people you seem to feel they are, all "organic" is sometimes not really organic. You have land for gardens and animals, yet you are not raising all your family's food. What are people that live in cities or those that can't afford or can't physically grow organic supposed to do? Sit down and die? What's the answer, Shannon doesn't like it doesn't make the cut.

I have so very often said how good it is we live where there are choices, and folks can buy or grow what they want.

I have said so often I have no problem with that, and have often suggested ways to grow better organic or natural crops. And methods to do so.

Why would you feel I'm against that?

Paul

Some people, Paul, just seem to completely misunderstand what we are trying to help out with. I would rather farm in a world where there were no weeds, where soil was magically self rejuvenating, where farming was easy. If it were easy, we would all be doing it, and we would not have such a concern over where the next generation of farmers may come from.

If we all farmed small, and all bought local, organic food, I ask where the people all are who would fill up the landscape and re-populate the rural areas? A romantic notion that we would all have a 40 acre farm that can be half effectively farmed organically. But the reality is not that simple. Hardly anyone wants to farm. So the ones that do farm, have trouble to farm how the romantics would have us farm, because farming a fair bit of acres is really hard to do organically and effectively. And then we have trouble with the romantics not trusting us and our produce.

A simpler world would be peachy, if there were enough farmers. But there are not, for MANY reasons. Number one being it is a freaking hard way to make a living!

I DO think land can be farmed effectively using "organic" methods. I farm my garden this way, because I have manure, etc.. But once you get to a farm size that is feasible for making a living, at least with grains, it becomes pretty near impossible to farm "organically" very effectively at all. You simply can not control weeds well. You simply can not replace all the nutrients a crop takes out of your soil efficiently. If insects infest your crop, what are you to do? Watch them eat it and watch your expenses and effort disappear, putting your livelihood at grave risk?

It just is not that simple. It really isn't. I wish it were.

Good on you PP!! I agree 100%

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I've been running in circles and think I can see myself up ahead!

Just did a bit of research, and it appears Spelt is a hybrid. Just for interest sake in case that matters to the Spelt folks. What do you pay for spelt, Pretty Paisley? Curious, as maybe I should try some on my organic land when I take it out of hay for my first year transition?

Having trouble finding prices around here. Some guys grow Kamut, or khorasan as well.

Sorry, Paul. I'm having a hard time keeping people and their previous posts in perspective.

I have seen a few studies in the past that would be more to the point I was trying to make initially but have not been able to find them again. Legitimate studies are extremely dry reading and some are not even all that evident at first glance as to what they even are.

My time is pretty limited at the moment and my internet connection is not good at all so it's currently difficult to do a serious search here. And I'm sorry about that.

Ok, can we go back to square one here? You seem to have mistaken me for someone else. I have never once belittled you, nor blamed you for anything. I have not "nitpicked" anything that you have brought forward as evidence to support your beliefs. Whether you realize it or not... I'm on YOUR side here. I am all for making sure our kids have a chance to live to a ripe old age.... 300 years???? I would not wish that on anyone.... seriously, just how long should a person have to suffer? I am in my early sixties, and have no desire to put in another couple hundred years, particularly if those years add as much pain and misery as the last few have.

What I advocate is education... actual FACTS... What you perceive to be my "nitpicking" is my rejection of false claims made.... which have been proven to be false in our courts.... or evidence that you present to support you claims that actually contradict them. Case in point.... your claim that our childrens life expectancy is shortened, and you denounce the "couch potato" argument, then post links that verify its all about poor diet and lack of exercise. You also posted links that JandJ had pulled some of their products off the shelves because some consumers were concerned about the chems in them.... but those articles also went on to point out that the chem levels in those products fell well below those standards set by the FDA. You need to work on finding legitimate studies that actually support your ideas if you expect to sell those theories to me.

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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

Its ok though, those "genetic modifications" were made hundreds of years before the evil Monsanto was ever created.

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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

I enjoy the discussion, and replied to your message because it has some thought behind it.

I'm really proud of, and work hard at, farming my small farm. I try hard to do things right. I consider and ponder and try new things, and work in old ideas in new ways.

I want to save the soil and nutrients I have.

Like any of you, I need to make a living at my job as well.

A lot of the messages on these topics are wild eyed attacks on farmers, as if they are just plotting evil doers.......

Gets kinda hard to stomach. (Pun there eh?)

There are some pretty wild accusations thrown about.

Seems a lot of people selling organic go a bit overboard on their marketing?

Now, if you are concerned about your food, that's a good thing. There sure is a lot to read on the internt, but the quality of what one reads seems a bit suspect.

Paul

It would be nice if those against conventional farming would help farmerdale plan his organic wheat crop.

I have stayed out of this one because of who started it and agenda. I replied to the organic wheat thread started by farmerdale. I have no problem and encourage everyone to grow their own as they want, organic or any other type of non-conventional "farming" as long as the people wanting it, pay for it. Oregon had a Monsanto bashing ballot measure this year. It wanted all GMO products labeled....but....only what "they" wanted labeled....AND "they" wanted everyone to pay for it. Totally different than "organic" as many "organic" items are made with GMO products and "they" wanted those exempt from labeling. In the end Oregon would have had to have separate storage, processing and growing conditions (except those exempt like wine) and others with a strong marketing association (angus). Crops not grown here in Oregon could never be processed as NON-GMO because they "could" have come in contact with GMO grown crops or equipment, much the same as peanuts. Or go through the process of being certified non gmo. It was just more government B.S. and hoops to go through. As we have seen everyone has their own soap box and the liberals want "their" government to do what "they" want done. After all it is "their" world....James