Government committee to look into aquifer regulation

crazyfarm · #61 11/13/14, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbo9

Regarding swales, as you talk to your neighbors and others about what you are doing, (which is good to do), don't ever compare a swale to a ditch. Instead, compare it to a terrace. Ditches are for controlling water, terraces are for controlling soil erosion. Swales do both. But ditches and water are fighting terms. Farmers will agree and support you if you start talking about soil. You might consider only putting swales on a 1% slope, rather than completely on conture, so that you have a defense that you haven't impounded the water, but slowed the rate of flow to reduce erosion.

I'm not PW, but I would guess that the recharge rate off of a small acreage is very very little. How deep is the aquifer? What soils and other geological formations that impact water infiltration rates are between the surface and water? Making that change would be more restrictive than the currently allowed pumping rate for household use (25 GPM from what I read above)

Isnt part of the problem not only the volume of water being pumped for unauthorized purposes, but the number of private wells being drilled as part of the new construction? What about a county water district to provide household water, rather than drilling a well on every 40 or 20 acres?

Hmm. What do you mean by a county water district? You mean piping it in like they do in a city? I don't think that would be financially feasible for a lot of the area. However, my parents are on city gas and light but have a well for watering. They live in one of those 5-10 acre big subdivisions close to town. They could probably pipe that for city water.

painterswife · #62 11/13/14, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyfarm

With earth works and ground cover it should work just fine. It is how Mark Shepard farms his 106 acre orchard. There will be some death and some low producers but they'll be culled out. I wasn't sure how I was goign to manage to get water to a full 40 acres of trees anyway so we'll see how this goes.

I've seen nothing in the state statutes that prevents swales thus far btw.

I am curious if his farm has the same conditions as you do? I live in Western Wyoming and we get more precip than you do and there are no fruit trees that will produce consistently with out watering unless planted on an irrigation ditch bank.

I don't think swales are in the regs specifically at this time. The problem is that everything is on the table now. If farmers are impacted in any way with new regulations that restrict water use, they will be fighting back and everything will be fair game.

painterswife · #63 11/13/14, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbo9

Regarding swales, as you talk to your neighbors and others about what you are doing, (which is good to do), don't ever compare a swale to a ditch. Instead, compare it to a terrace. Ditches are for controlling water, terraces are for controlling soil erosion. Swales do both. But ditches and water are fighting terms. Farmers will agree and support you if you start talking about soil. You might consider only putting swales on a 1% slope, rather than completely on conture, so that you have a defense that you haven't impounded the water, but slowed the rate of flow to reduce erosion.

I'm not PW, but I would guess that the recharge rate off of a small acreage is very very little. How deep is the aquifer? What soils and other geological formations that impact water infiltration rates are between the surface and water? Making that change would be more restrictive than the currently allowed pumping rate for household use (25 GPM from what I read above)

Isnt part of the problem not only the volume of water being pumped for unauthorized purposes, but the number of private wells being drilled as part of the new construction? What about a county water district to provide household water, rather than drilling a well on every 40 or 20 acres?

We are very spread out in most of Wyoming. They are more likely to require water meters on your well and employ people to check them the to put in more water districts. Our county all ready requires new subdivisions to have a community well ( not sure about Laramie County).

Reservoirs providing water for cities are already struggling but at least they can restrict water use. It is the domestic wells and their using too much that is the real problem.

crazyfarm · #64 11/13/14, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painterswife

I am curious if his farm has the same conditions as you do? I live in Western Wyoming and we get more precip than you do and there are no fruit trees that will produce consistently with out watering unless planted on an irrigation ditch bank.

I don't think swales are in the regs specifically at this time. The problem is that everything is on the table now. If farmers are impacted in any way with new regulations that restrict water use, they will be fighting back and everything will be fair game.

Well I'm no expert but I've read quite a lot of books and watched a ton of videos. The trees struggle until they are established and then when planted on swales they do just fine. I guess we will see won't we.

Here is hoping I can grandfather my swales in. I can't imagine the farmer by me would complain. His field keeps getting washed out.

painterswife · #65 11/13/14, 10:12 AM

Here is a legal article on "reuse water" in Wyoming.

http://www.uwyo.edu/law/_files/docs/...0n2/fuller.pdf

A very worth while read.

painterswife · #66 11/13/14, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyfarm

Well I'm no expert but I've read quite a lot of books and watched a ton of videos. The trees struggle until they are established and then when planted on swales they do just fine. I guess we will see won't we.

Here is hoping I can grandfather my swales in. I can't imagine the farmer by me would complain. His field keeps getting washed out.

It would be the farmer further away who will complain when that water does not hit the aquifer.

I personally think the tree may live but will not fruit. I have tried that here and it did not work out.

crazyfarm · #67 11/13/14, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painterswife

Here is a legal article on "reuse water" in Wyoming.

http://www.uwyo.edu/law/_files/docs/...0n2/fuller.pdf

A very worth while read.

Well look at that, the biggest stress on the water supply is still commercial agriculture. Isn't that what I've been saying?? Plus this whole fracking thing is till a concern since it now seems like we have one goign up in front of our house and one behind. Bleg. I should just move before I either run out of water or it's bloody poisoned.

painterswife · #68 11/13/14, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyfarm

Well look at that, the biggest stress on the water supply is still commercial agriculture. Isn't that what I've been saying?? Plus this whole fracking thing is till a concern since it now seems like we have one goign up in front of our house and one behind. Bleg. I should just move before I either run out of water or it's bloody poisoned.

It is, but they have the historical and legal rights to that use. All those new homes are going to impinge on their historical and legal rights in the future if it is not handled now.

Better a committee now than a wat later.

crazyfarm · #69 11/13/14, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painterswife

It would be the farmer further away who will complain when that water does not hit the aquifer.

I personally think the tree may live but will not fruit. I have tried that here and it did not work out.

Do you understand how swales work? It will hit the aquifer. That's the point of doing it. Allowing the water to slow and percolate into the soil while right now it's rushing about and carrying all the soil with it. It took out the major dirt county road this year. It's getting worse every year. A swale could have prevented that. I guess we could all just wait until the soil is completely eroded away and the ground is so damaged that water won't even seep into it. That could work!

I feel like you think I'm trying to control people and water and such. Couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm just doing what I can to keep the water supply in my area up, the soil intact, and bring some beauty to an area so dead I can't even graze animals on it. Plus, lord knows this area could use another family activity. We've got nothing.

crazyfarm · #70 11/13/14, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painterswife

It is, but they have the historical and legal rights to that use. All those new homes are going to impinge on their historical and legal rights in the future if it is not handled now.

Better a committee now than a wat later.

Maybe Governor Mead can bring back his family's legacy and just start killing people so he can keep the land and water all to himself.

Legal and hisorical rights are all well and good until they kill the entire state with their misuse of the water. Are we really so horrible that we can't attempt to change harmful agricultural practices?

crazyfarm · #71 11/13/14, 10:31 AM

Hmmm. Thought I might as well look into permit requirements but a basic overview of the different categories shows no category that includes what I am doing. Maybe it will one day but right now I am not doing something that requires a permit and/or is illegal. Not that I've found at least. Now I was going to build a big retention pond, that would require a permit. I haven't done it yet though.

painterswife · #72 11/13/14, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyfarm

Do you understand how swales work? It will hit the aquifer. That's the point of doing it. Allowing the water to slow and percolate into the soil while right now it's rushing about and carrying all the soil with it. It took out the major dirt county road this year. It's getting worse every year. A swale could have prevented that. I guess we could all just wait until the soil is completely eroded away and the ground is so damaged that water won't even seep into it. That could work!

I feel like you think I'm trying to control people and water and such. Couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm just doing what I can to keep the water supply in my area up, the soil intact, and bring some beauty to an area so dead I can't even graze animals on it. Plus, lord knows this area could use another family activity. We've got nothing.

Much of the scrub land is not capable of draining to the aquifer or holding the water. That is why it is not being farmed. Swales add some water to the ground but they don't increase it's permeability. You can tell this by looking at where the trees grow naturally.

A good soil study of your area. http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FS.../0/Laramie.pdf

This does not mean it won't help or that your land is not permeabil but it was dead for a reason in the first place.

crazyfarm · #73 11/13/14, 10:42 AM

Deleting this as it apparently double posted. That'll teach me to have backyardchickens open. It always ruins my computer.

crazyfarm · #74 11/13/14, 10:44 AM

I called the state civil engineers water division and spoke to many people. All said swales are fine but one lady suggested I refer to them as planting trenches. She also said if I do them over a foot deep then I'd need a permit. They aren't.

And yup, totally know it doesn't make it water permeable. That's what the plants, trees, and soil amendments are for! To make it permeable.

AmericanStand · #75 11/13/14, 11:13 AM

After reading the rules it seems that you can use domestic well to supply 13,000,000 gallons of water a year. It sure seems like that would be enough to run a household and a acre of garden.
What you can't do by law is to use even one drop of that water to make money.

painterswife · #76 11/13/14, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyfarm

I called the state civil engineers water division and spoke to many people. All said swales are fine but one lady suggested I refer to them as planting trenches. She also said if I do them over a foot deep then I'd need a permit. They aren't.

Remember it was a government official that told you there was more than enough water. That is also just one branch of the government. They all have different rules. The county's may be different. The core of engineers is also another one that will be a problem.

AmericanStand · #77 11/13/14, 11:26 AM

How does the rain arrive your area ? Is it in intense showers or light rains ? Scattered through the year or a short rainy season ?

crazyfarm · #78 11/13/14, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painterswife

Remember it was a government official that told you there was more than enough water. That is also just one branch of the government. They all have different rules. The county's may be different. The core of engineers is also another one that will be a problem.

Yet you seem to back the forming of a government committe for government regulation of the water. Seems no single government organization is on the same page and the commissioners ketp saying it wasn't their responsibility to begin with. The governor had to tell them to do it. The incompetence....I don't trust them.

crazyfarm · #79 11/13/14, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmericanStand

How does the rain arrive your area ? Is it in intense showers or light rains ? Scattered through the year or a short rainy season ?

Rain is sporadic. Snow is the most of it I'd say and that's sporadic too. Mostly it all blows to Nebraska. :P

painterswife · #80 11/13/14, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyfarm

Yet you seem to back the forming of a government committe for government regulation of the water. Seems no single government organization is on the same page and the commissioners ketp saying it wasn't their responsibility to begin with. The governor had to tell them to do it. The incompetence....I don't trust them.

I am for forming a committee( it is made up of others than just government). I am sure you are free to form a non government committee as well. The problem is the Laramie County Government was told to deal with this and they have a deadline. They are attempting to do something but you shoveled some crap on them right from the start. You have no idea of the challenges, the regulations or the need but chose to get mad about it.

Now you are better informed. Maybe they will be as well.