Need to restore variety to my land
 

I am absolutely aghast at what modern ranching practices have done to my land. Long story made short, my land has been leased for cattle for over a decade, no, I didn't get a say in it. Everybody that has leased it has sprayed it. I've been telling them not to for a long time. Even after I got possession of it this year and told them not to spray......they thought they could do it on the sly and I wouldn't notice. They wouldn't dream of mowing, but love to spray. I do not understand this way of thinking. Rant over(well mostly anyhow).

So I now have land that used to have an amazing variety of native species....practically nature's grocery store...that is now coastal grass, goat weeds and thorn bushes. That's it. Not even any fall flowers for my bees. I have never had to feed bees in the fall before....not in over 20 years.

So my quandry is....how do I begin to restore it? Can it be restored? I bought a bunch of clover seed and will be planting it this week, but how do I restore the biodiversity?!! This is an enormous project. I don't want to let the meadows grow up into brush, which I know will require mowing at least annually.

I have no knowledge of these herbicidal sprays. No idea what has been used. No idea if anything will be able to grow in the soil that is a broad leaf plant. :help:

Persistent herbicide is effective for at least 3 years. If other weaker stuff is used you might be able to get some results by starting to sow what ever you want this season.

Best start would be to look into permaculture that Mark Shepard is doing to give you and idea - it might not be suited exactly to your area but the idea of starting with plants that grow naturally in your area plus arranging them to balance nutrients is a good one.

Contact your local extension office, maybe they can give you the name of someone who manages native grass on their land.

They are out there, you just need to track them down.

It will be a long term project. I'd start by looking for any local nurseries or plant sellers that specialize in native plants and grasses and ask their advice. They may have native seed mixes specifically designed for what you want to do. Check with your local or state dept of natural resources. They may have knowledge or contacts for people or groups that do restoration work. You may be able to access or even leverage their knowledge and connections. Is there a local college with any kind of program in wildlife ecology? Students can be great free labor in exchange for real work experience in habitat restoration. Just don't expect it to be easy or quick and start with manageable chunks. Success breeds success.

Some broadleaf herbicides can have an effect for 3 years. Tordon, Grazeon, Milestone, etc.

Most of the cheaper ones are seasonal, will wear down in a week to 3 months. Typically based on 2,4-D.

You likely have a seed bank of the weeds you want to regrow in the soil, so let nature take its course. The stuff you want will reseed in a year or two with the weaker chemicals.

I presume you are no longer renting out the pasture if you want it a native vegetation. Those are sort of opposite goals, you seem to have put your renter in a bad position, collecting money from him but not really allowing him to use the property. But I'm assuming a lot, I'm sure there is more to the story and that is fine. It was not right of them to spray against your wishes, but not right of you to rent something out and then not really let them use it.....

Paul

I had nothing to do with it being leased. Everything has been tied up in an estate. I did not receive control until after it had been leased for this year. Since I know they would like to continue to lease I mistakenly thought that they would try to at least get along with me.

I am setting up a large apiary and broad spraying is detrimental to my bees and their forage. I explained this to no avail.

If the conditions of the rental were laid out ahead of time the renter could have chosen not to rent. If they sprayed in express violation of the rental agreement they were in the wrong. Just as in any rental agreement the landlord could go after damages but is question if it was worth it in this case.

I take it that after this lease runs out.....

it will NOT be renewed? If so, I'll be betting

that they will be complaining down at the local whine and dine

about that crazy bee lady.......

ROFL.....I'm sure I have been a hot topic at the local whine and dine for quite some time now.

There is no written lease. I had nothing to do with it or I assure you there would be a written lease.

How about some ideas and suggestions rather than looking for a reason to beat me up for something that isn't my fault?

Here is a real crazy idea! Ask what was sprayed. Research what was sprayed. Then leave it to nature. It will come back. It may take several years, but believe me when I say, nature takes it back in time. I have land that was grain land, and you would think now, 10 years later, it was natural young forest, forbs, weeds, natural grass included.

A spray is not a spray, is not a spray. They are all different. And when you do research what was used, consult ag research papers, farm articles, etc., not mother earth new, or organic daily. You do not need to be scared further, and un-necessarily...

Have you tested your well water? That would be my primary concern at this point.

Great post, farmerDale! That is exactly what I'd do, let nature takes its course.

What grows in the area? Along the roadsides, in the woods? This is what will try to grow on your land. Wild seed lasts far longer than modern seed. If you till the soil you may bring up exactly what you are looking for.

Your local Ag office can suggest native plants... And may have a bead on sourcing seeds for such. Your local feed supply might cut you a deal on native seeds that haven't been selling... Your neighbors may also be a source.

If you are going to restore you land with the main interest
for bees, then I would consider the best plant for the best
honey production. Not being familiar what grows best in
your area for bee plants, I'm thinking something like clovers
or orchard type heavy flowering trees and bushes.
My land, for example has big old pasture areas of goldenrod
that bees utilize for fall honey. I easily frost seeded red and
white clover in past years do well and do on.
No, I don't keep bees at present, but even wild bees make
Good use if natural restoration with some help reseeding
plants you want for them.

Oh no, no, no ..... you've got me all wrong
 

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I'm entirely on YOUR side in this matter.

Just giving out the very likely and possible scenario
that goes on around most small town gossip stations.

Not much you can do about it either. Tongues will wag regardless.

Let's see if I've got a handle on the actual situation. This property has
been in the family for some time now. There is no written lease, but the
prior landlord/owner had a verbal agreement with the present tenant to
use the property as grazing land. You 'may' have had some input as to
asking/telling the tenant NOT to spray, but because you weren't the real
owner, it didn't exactly cut the mustard. Now that you've inherited it,
you are still under terms of the 'verbal' lease/agreement and they still
don't feel the need to advise you whether they are going to spray or not.

Terms to agreements tend to change with time and perhaps it's time to
review those now. Since you don't have a written lease and if you do plan
on keeping the rental option open and functioning, then it's time to sit down
and draw one up that you BOTH can live with. Otherwise, it's time
to draw the relationship to an end and hopefully part on amicable terms.

But if that happens, they will have THEIR story on why it ended and of
course, you'll have yours. Not saying that either is wrong, but sometimes
people'[s feeling get hurt when things don't do their way. Are they paying
enough 'rent' to at least pay the taxes? Are they paying anything at all?

You'll just have to do what ever works best for you and your situation.

And regarding bee forage; plant an assortment that come along throughout the growing season,
so that the bees can have a continuous source of nectar. When the tallow quits, then the clover
starts up and eventually the fall flowers like astors and goldenrod kick in as well. Up north here,
we used to have large areas of marshlands covered in purple loosestrife, as well as a steady favorite
known as spotted knapweed; aka 'star thistle'......both are "foreign invaders" and the state and USDA
have spent a fortune in taxpayers money to develop natural pests that have wiped out these once reliable
bee forage species......they used to pay the bills, now our bees literally starve through the drought of summer.

I'd like to restore it for bees, wild life and I wouldn't mind cattle continuing to graze on it. It used to be wonderful grazing land and wildlife habitat....which coincidentally meant that it was great for bees too. Why does man want to make mono-cultures out of everything!

This really used to be an incredible piece of property. The only native species that have survived are the trees. At least they didn't kill those.

I hesitate to do much ground breaking as the moment the ground is broken blackberry briers appear. Of course I will have to disc lightly to plant clover or anything else. Maybe I should try that on a small area and see how it goes.

I would ask about what kind of spray was used, but I was lied to about the spraying in the first place. I doubt I'd get an honest answer.

Soil is a living thing until we start screwing with mother nature. Make a list of the native species that used to grow there. It's obvious you understand progression. Will the native species be enough to provide for your bees or do you need to look into cover crops that are managed to provide forage year round? Normally each species likes a certain soil, exposure, etc. They also prefer a specific soil ecology.

AcresUSA is a monthly magazine that would probably be regarded as extreme fringe by conventional farmers. The magazine will open, maybe, a new world of potential contacts.There's a professor at WVU that has run a fungi lab for decades for use in improving crop production. It works.

I wish I lived nearby, I've been interested in a remediation/reclamation project for a long time. There are ways to grow soil.

To the point:

If there is no written lease - you have nothing. Verbal doesn't count in Real Estate.

Give them a written letter - mailed, have them sign for the letter - giving them enough time to move their cows. That's it! Done!

Be nice but firm. You can state that one reason was that you specifically asked them not to spray and they did.

Of course, you'll be the talk of the town for a while until something else comes up that they can gossip about.

The co-op agent offered to come out to my property, & walked the land with me. I sure learned a lot. Maybe they'll do that for you.

Want seeds? Harvest from the sides of the roadway.

Now that's a thought! I'll do a bit of research on how to harvest fall flower seeds.

I'm not concerned with what folks say about me. Never have been. Not concerned with the lease or lack of one. The damage is done. I'm just trying to figure out how to fix it.

Seems like I read about putting grass or clover seeds into feed that was fed to cows or maybe sheep and the pasture was reseeded through the manure. Anyone tried something like that?

Unfortunately the ag agents in this area mostly have info on spraying. :hammer: There are some small reimbursement programs for planting clover but that's about it. I already checked on that.

Managing for grazing and managing for wildlife can be two very different things. Not that they can't be compatible but someone looking to make the most money wants only to graze the maximum number of animals the forage can handle and they want only the forage present that the animals will best utilize. You might be able to work out lower animal numbers for cheaper grazing rates and meet both your needs. You may not. I heard an interview on the radio last week with the host of a show on Wisconsin Public Television called "From the Farm Table". She discussed an upcoming show which highlights a visit to a buffalo raiser in NW Wisconsin which used to be a 1000 acre grain farm. She talked much about the diversity of birds and wildlife that have returned to what is now essentially a restored prairie. Good luck.

I've seen where you can mix seeds with mud and make little mud balls. Mud ball gardening. Just throw the mud balls where you want the seeds to grow.

http://www.plantsofthesouthwest.com/Grasses/products/3/

Ck this place out Miss A. Some native type grasses you might want to get a a start of.
Ed

The reason they sprayed is because the weeds keep coming back. If you give it time, a lot of what you want will return on its own.

Why? My fields are over grown with out any help , save the birds dispersing seeds...

I'd go collect all the wild seed I could and broad cast it, willy nilly and let nature take up the slack.

Take out things I did not want or are super competitive.

You would be surprised how quick that old girl takes back over.

This is a fantastic project and you can do it.

A book that really changed my thinking about ecology and land stewardship is Sara Stein's Noah's Garden:

http://www.amazon.com/Noahs-Garden-R.../dp/0395709407

She has another book called Planting Noah's Garden.

Here's a brief sample of what she was up to:

http://nativeplantwildlifegarden.com...-noahs-garden/

I can't recommend this books highly enough.

I offer you no guarantees, since I don't know the land and the plants. However, if what you've got maturing are pasture species, but not the ones you want, then mowing and maybe baling would help. For sure, you'll be further ahead next year if there's not a load of seeds you don't want growing, ready and waiting to go. Keep on broadcasting seed of plants you do want, varieties that will mature seed just ahead of the bad ones, let the good ones go to seed, then mow and bale the bad ones before they seed. Might be pricey, although you should make money on the hay.

Herbicides do not harm well water. When applied we're talking literally pints per acre that are mixed with hundreds of gallons of water.

If you want to put diversity back, put together a good mix of grasses and legumes, and no till it in. You'll be fine, most herbicides CAN live for 3 years, but most are much shorter than that. I'd plant and be done w/ it.

I know many consider black locust trees to be weeds, but we let a small area reseed/sucker for the great wood that is produced, quickly. The blooms for the bees are also produced when the trees are pretty young.
We reseeded 13 acres that had been in corn/soy rotation for years with pasture grass mix and a whole lot of white, crimson and yellow sweet clover. My bees work it all season. We've had great rains this year so still have fresh clover blooms.
As others have mentioned, we also have a few acres that we let nature take it's course. There's been a huge amt. of goldenrod for the bees as well as milkweed for the monarchs. I'm nervously letting a small stand of wild blackberries remain (with controlled mowing) with the idea of placing a couple of hives near the patch.
I've never seen so many butterflies working the clover as I've seen this year.
I'm a new beekeeper with a few hives but I try to do much of my planting with them in mind.

We have a three beef cow/calf pairs as well as four guernsey cows/heifers and a guernsey steer that we rotate through the pastures. We rotate them quickly enough that we haven't had any apparent setback of the clover supply for the bees. All we do is a little reseeding in the hang out spots the cows make near the water tanks. I know our numbers are very small compared to "real" cattle herds but they're in fields on 35 acres shared with hogs, buildings, woods and a pond .

I know Paquebot used to say earthworms weren't native here, etc. (maybe not necessary?), but I am continually amazed at the worms and other creatures that have returned, or shown up since we reverted the crop land back to pasture. There wasn't a worm to be found anywhere I dug and now you can't turn over a shovelful of soil without exposing all kinds of wildlife.
I think yours will "come back to life" quickly too.

Edited to say: As much as I'd like to say we don't spray herbicides, we do use them on the perimeter fence line and spot spray thistle stands. Every year when my 100x100' garden is carpeted in purslane I threaten to empty a jug of roundup on it, but have refrained so far, making raised beds and mulching heavily instead.
One of these days I am going to start cutting down and treating the stumps of invasive honeysuckle that is taking over the woods in this area. That will be a never ending project.

Ahem let me ascend to the podium.

Don't worry that stuff is still in it.

QUOTE=TxMex;7238210]This really used to be an incredible piece of property. The only native species that have survived are the trees. At least they didn't kill those..[/QUOTE]

Nope I bet not , LOTS of those seeds are still in the ground they are one of the reasons they kept spraying.

QUOTE=TxMex;7238210]I hesitate to do much ground breaking as the moment the ground is broken blackberry briers appear. Of course I will have to disc lightly to plant clover or anything else. Maybe I should try that on a small area and see how it goes..[/QUOTE]

GREAT! that means the land can recover on its own! Briers are your friend! Honest! They will provide cover for the birds bugs and other small animals that will help reseed your place.

QUOTE=TxMex;7238210]I would ask about what kind of spray was used, but I was lied to about the spraying in the first place. I doubt I'd get an honest answer. [/QUOTE]

That's why I would put him on notice that he is out the first day you can legally have him gone.
Find a Smaller guy that is willing to work with you. tell him you will require that the place be stocked at FAR less than its carrying capacity but you are willing o charge the same per cow as anybody else and so he will have the fattest, fastest growing cows around!

In this state (IL) it does BUT there are MADATORY notice dates, I think Nov 1 is is one.

:thumb:


Better than roadways are railroad rights of way, not close to the rails where they spray but far away from it and odd corners where they don't spray.
In this state that's where most of the unbroken prairie has survived.


Isnt that one of the listed Noxious weeds in IL ? If it is, failure to destroy it is a crime. Im not sure it is , Id better look that up.
BUT it brings up a point for the OP.
There may be plants that you cannot legally seed,move, or even ALLOW to be on your property. You might want to look into your states laws on the subject.

Ok end of sermon!

LOL....one persons invasive weed is another persons desirable plant! I'd dearly love to re-establish honeysuckle. There is some here already but not nearly as much as there was when I was a kid.

I'm torn on thistles. I don't see my honey bees on them, but every one will have a big native bumble bee on it. Early training taught me to hoe every one I see before it can set seed. Reality is that I'd need a large crew to accomplish it.

I simply will not spray poison...with one exception. I do plan to cut out the thorn bushes and spot spray the roots, which I've been told is the only way to get them killed out. Nearly everything else can be handled by timing when it is mowed.

My fence lines are so grown up that I'm pretty sure that is the only thing holding up the barbed wire. I'd have to use a bulldozer to clear them.

I'm going to see if I can find out what has been sprayed. The wild hogs will do a lot of my ground breaking for me. I'm going to do soil tests and see if it needs lime. I'm considering buying a bigger tractor so that I can do my own mowing and time it to encourage the plants I want and discourage the ones I don't want. I'll do a little judicious strip planting here and there to get some stuff established.

Why is it that everything I end up doing is expensive?! I really didn't want to buy a bigger tractor!

permaculture.....permaculture.....permaculture

your little tractor will do just fine !

Fortunately Texas is not as over regulated as some other states....though it is coming. So far, for the most part, the state still gives it's citizens credit for having a bit of common sense. I would not knowingly establish an invasive species on my land. Only interested in restoring native species and maybe introducing a few non-invasive beneficial plants like clover, other legumes and some flowers.

I'd spend the rest of my life trying to mow this place with a 5 ft mower. My place is several hundred acres.

Goats, they will clear the fence line and love the black berries. Of course you will have to figure out how to keep them in after they've eaten their way through.

yep i know the acerage....but think outside the box for testing...5ft strips around all field edges....hog it down....go back with a disc....toss seed.....disc again....or hog it down....toss seed and then disc.

this would make the strips i seen being tested with great results for bees in the u.k.

check it out texmex.


http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/spe...g-flowers.html

Texmex, if this is the honeysuckle you'd like to have more of and have some already, you won't have to wait long for more:runforhills::
http://illinoistimes.com/article-938...at-a-time.html
It just overgrows everything in the woods except the bigger trees!

I haven't found black locust listed for IL. On the other hand giant ragweed is on the list. If Illinois had enough money to enforce noxious weed laws half the land owner around here would be in big trouble this year!

Have you looked at www.beesoure.com, yet? I have not been there for a while but the last I saw they had a section on bee plants.