What are you doing about the quality of gasoline?
 

I had my grandson yesterday so he had to take a ride on the atv. We went around the property(90 acres) and it stalled 100 yards before getting back.I couldn't keep it running so took it back to the shop that just replaced the fuel pump and rebuilt the carb on 7-30 . Well,today is 9-30 , exactly 60 days later.pulled the carb and it was lined with corrosive looking gunk! Just a brown film from the gas we are getting today!
I was told it's gotten so bad now that they will only recommend premium and that needs sea-foam!I couldn't believe it would gunk up in that short time!So what are you using and what are you using it in? So far I'm thinking this has been part of the problem with my chain saw,weed trimmer,mower and now the atv, all this year!(Fill her up with $4 gal of gas and $10 bottle of seafoam please and wash the windshield!)What a life!

Wade

Congress giveth and Congress taketh away. The ethanol lobby won and we lost. Non-ethanol gas is out there in some places. That's the only thing I can add.

There are some places which still sell alcohol free gas. The cheapest place I have found is the bulk fuel supply place where I buy my red/no tax diesel.

I have also had luck using sta-bil's anti-alcohol additive.

On everything but the chainsaw, and my D Brown diesel, I shut off the gas and let it run dry. Ive had good luck so far doing that.

We run non ethanol gas in our tractor, tiller, lawn mowers, weed eaters, etc. everything except the trucks. Makes a huge difference. Before we started doing this, I could not start the tiller by myself (hey I am a woman and not a spring chicken anymore LOL) but, since we cleaned it out, had the carb. rebuilt and started using only non ethanol gas I can start it alone. There are a couple of gas stations in town that have one non ethanol pump, costs more but so worth it when we are not having to constantly take machinery in to have the carb. cleaned out.

A $5 inline fuel cut-off and a $2 inline filter solves a lot of the problem. Like FarmboyBill, I like to run'er dry. That sucks all the water/crud out of the carb bowl before it can build up.

I spent $300 on my Boat after putting Sea Foam in it. Started using sta-bil Marine Formula in everything seems to work well.

big rockpile

The guys in the shop said forget sta-built. The gas has gotten so bad around here it don't work if you are just a little off in either direction with the measurements. It either doesn't do anything because it doesn't have enough in it or it is a problem if it has too much.
I don't know what to believe but they don't benefit by telling me that.


Wade

Been using ethanol enhanced gasoline in a tractor, our vehicles, chainsaw, weed whacker, water pumps, and lawn mower without any issues due to gasoline quality.

My biggest issues have come from letting things sit with ethanol gas in them. After several carb rebuilds and serious cleaning, I did quit using ethanol gas and went to just a straight 100% gasoline. It's harder to find but it's out there.

I have always used ethanol gas in the cheapest grade. I can let the tiller and lawnmower sit all winter and they will start with 2 pulls in the spring. My old farmall M and Allis WDs are the same as well as my newer 656. I never run Sta-bil and the only time I ever had a problem was once when I ran a mower dry.

I also have had no trouble in using ethanol in gasoline in any of my things. And I let them sit in the case of my snowblower all summer never use anything in the gas, my seedeater the same thing gas stays in that all winter and never have a problem in the sparing starting it. Same thing with my 20+ year old lawnmower. sits all winter and starts up just fine in the spring time, never have added anything in that either. The only thing that has a shutoff is the snowblower but many years I have forgotten to shut it off no problem with that 15+ year old machine either. And in WI we have had ethanol added in gasoline for many years now.
The car does just fine it is a '94 small buick and I still get 30 to 31 MPG.
When in AZ my old '68 Chev really liked that Oxygenated Fuel that was used in the Winter time out there. More HP, no ping, and that old 283 run beautifully with its 250K miles on it.

There are two different types of Stabil (3 if you include the diesel formula).

Regular Stabil is used to treat gasoline to prevent breakdown over time and eliminate varnishing. Both ethanol free (E0) and ethanol blends (E5+) will break down and deposit varnish in engines.

Marine Stabil is used to combat both the hydrophilic (water holding) properties of ethanol, phase separation issues with ethanol, as well as preventing normal gasoline breakdown and varnishing...3 separate issues.

Again, varnishing is not an ethanol issue. All gasoline blends break down and cause varnishing, and by extension, stuck valves, plugged injectors, filters and fuel lines. This can be prevented by stabilizing, and/or draining old gas and running dry and fogging in the off season, or using stabilized E-free gas.

Ethanol blends are prone to absorbing and holding water, usually from condensation in the fuel tank. The result of this is poor performance at best, engine failure at worst, and in some cases corrosion in the engine. Marine engines are at the most risk because of the high moisture atmosphere, but all engines are susceptible. Treat with ethanol additives like Stabil marine or Star tron, or use stabilized E-free gas. Also keeping the tanks filled during the season will prevent condensation in the fuel tank.

Phase separation is a real concern with ethanol blends, especially when using older engines. When separation happens naturally over time the ethanol separates from the gasoline. Ethanol is a solvent that will break down fuel lines, gaskets, and seals on older engines made before ethanol was a reality. In addition, the ethanol will dissolve resins and crud that line older fuel tank walls, moving this crud through the fuel system and into the engine.

Newer engines are manufactured to accommodate ethanol fuels. However, even in newer engines ethanol will create a thick, sticky substance that will clog filter and fuel lines. This substance is created by water mixing with certain additives that are added to fuel blends. There are over 100 approved compounds that can be legally added to gasolines and vary by region and fuel manufacturers. The presence or absence of these particular additives is why certain people may have no problems with fuel delivery system or engines while others have seen quite a few issues.

Again, to be safe, use an ethanol fuel additive, like Stabil marine or Star Tron, drain fuel and fog in the off season...OR use stabilized ethanol free gas.

Non-ethanol gas plus STARTRON!

According to my small engine repair guy, Startron is so much better than Stabil, it's not even funny.

I have heard differing opinions as to whether, for winter storage, it is better to drain the fuel from the engine or fill the tank full of stabilized gas. I'm inclined to think the latter, because without taking apart the carburetor, you can't really get it empty anyway. Any views on this?

Got rid of my quad and got a small cart and horse. Tractor is diesel. Chainsaw seems to work as well as ever, its ten years old and Ive never had a problem.

Speaking of chain saws... it's not always the carburetor that causes problems.

My dad has a chain saw, can't remember the brand, that has a gas cap that swells in response to ethanol. It gets very difficult to impossible to get in and out when it swells. I got him some non-ethanol gas to use in it but don't have any results yet on how it works. His solution was to buy another gas cap and he'll have one sitting in a window in the sun when not in use as they will shrink back down over time if left to sit in the sun.

Truth is stranger than fiction.

They both work. I use both. My local small engine guys prefers Stabil. I like Startron better for marine applications.

On engines that you cannot drain the tank, fill it full and stabilize it. On things like trimmers, chainsaws, power augers, etc., drain the tank, start the engine and run until fuel line is empty and fog with a carb fogger.

WHOA! You don't think so? If they moan and groan about the gas while giving you bad advice your tools go bad and you blame it on the gas every time you bring it back to fill their pockets with $$$$$$ !

On the other hand if they are not scientists researching the problem they don't really know what they are talking about do they? Its just a matter of taking their prejudices as your own.

Ethanol gas is death to small engines and ATVs. My nearly new ATV was stalling out every little while and would then hardly run at all until I got rid of the regular unleaded gas and went to Premium with no ethanol and added a bit of Sea Foam.

Also, I found that my ATV would get water in the gas via condensation in the gas tank if I left it outside. Moving my ATV inside the shed when not in use solved that problem.

I am wondering if there are not some regional differences in gas quality. I can tell you that in our region, I would not use ethanol gas in my small engines, and for sure not in my ATV.

Once you solved the problem did you try gas with ethanol again?

Gas with ethanol will SOLVE lots of problems with water condensing in the tank, bad storage ,poor maintenance etc. but when it finally fails to work miracles people Blame all their problems on the ethanol.

Baffles me that people will put ethanol in regular gas to solve these problems then complain about gas with ethanol!

I got rid of most of my gas powered equipment and replaced with diesel. Diesel tractor, lawnmower, generator, UTV. I'm still stuck with the gas chainsaw, not really any suitable alternative there. Diesel has it's own set of issues, but it has been much easier to deal with for me. I put an additive in the bulk tank when it gets filled and I've never had any problems.

For those who can't find ethanol free gas, you can buy it at the hardware store in small cans now, pre-treated. It's pricey stuff, but has a guaranteed shelf life and may be a good solution for something like a chainsaw that doesn't get used much. I've never been able to swallow the price, but the reviews I've seen are good.

I am the one in the family that works in town and usually fills the gas cans for our old tractors, chain saws, etc. There is one little station that makes a point of only having "real gas" and that is the one I usually go to if at all possible. They are always busy.

The owner told me about this website: http://pure-gas.org/ and I thought maybe others could use it.

If you store gas at all, make sure to use the oldest up first. My understanding is that old gas can be a problem, especially switching back and forth between summer and winter formulations.

Peg

No, I am sticking with premium. And keeping the ATV inside. When I initially had the problem of the ATV stalling often, the ATV was inside an overhang and had problems even in warm or hot weather - I am convinced it was ethanol causing it. In colder weather, the water in gas issue came up (and I had ethanol in the ATV too). A neighbor had the same problem with exactly the same ATV. And solved it in the same way (premium gas and Sea Foam once in a while) My owner's manual speaks of condensation in the gas tank in winter so I believe it is just a feature of my machine, regardless of the gas. My ATV is now inside an unheated but closed shed and filled with premium - and runs perfectly, whether it is 85F or 10F. I try to run my ATV or at least start it every 2-4 weeks through the winter.

Id think a full tank and inside housing would solve the problem .
BUT if it makes you feel better the few cents more for premium is probably worth it.

Ethanolated gas simply gives you all something to complain about and a convienent excuse most likely to cover up your poor maintainance mistakes. I use plain old pump gas in all my homestead machines, from chainsaws, to ATV's and I DON'T have a single problem!

I DO however keep things clean, change the oil, mix the right amount of two-cycle, and keep things outside under a rain cover. In the history of all my equipment, I did have one chainsaw that I had to replace a fuel line, but that was simply a 2$ repair that I did myself, and may in no way be related to ethanol.

Since you really need something to complain about, I suggest that you also include the fluorination of water and mandatory vaccination of children; it fits well with the rest of the tin-foil hat conspiracy talk about ethanol in gas.

I agree, but I think manufacturers have also used ethanol as an excuse to allow them to cut corners on their engines

We have found it's cheaper to use the non ethanol gas in the small engines. It cost us almost $200 last year to fix things after my husband bough the ethanol fuel and used it, never again.

I just heard from my small engine repairman there will be only 30% ethanol available starting this winter. Said he would not buy the new mower he needs till he starts repairing them after the new formula is out for a while. I've been wanting to go diesel for quite some time. Looks like it is the time to cut bait and go that route. Need or want a bigger truck anyway. I want an older 7.3.

Wade,

I see that you are in Indiana.

The gas stations that have gas with ethanol should have a sticker on the pump that read "May contain 10% ethanol by volume."

I have found that in central Indiana, Shell, Exxon and BP do NOT have those stickers on the pumps.

I have 3 vehicles. Two of them can run okay on ethanol blended fuel, but the third one will drink it like it is going out of style.

I have quit using Speedway, Murphy's, Thortons and especially Swifty. I have a car that drinks Swifty gas so fast that I think you can see the gas needle drop!!!!

One of the local Stihl and Echo dealers tell all of their customers to use Shell brand gas ONLY in the stuff that they sell.

I have gotten to the point that I will pay more for Shell, BP and Exxon. It is worth the extra change to spend for those brands...an extra 2 cents to 6 cents more per gallon is an excellent value, IMO.

All of my cars run better on those brands, and I haven't had any trouble with my small engines yet, after many years of only using those brands.

Again, this is in central Indiana. When I've traveled to a few other states, I have noticed that these brands do have the ethanol stickers on the pumps.

Good to know! I'll try that! Thanks.

Wade

Hi Clovis,

I am also in Central Indiana (Mooresville). Your experience is very similar to mine. I recently purchased a new two-cycle blower and the instructions recommend the use of gas with no ethanol. The manufacturer gives a clear warning that gas with more than 10% ethanol will damage the engine.

I have been avoiding a very conveniently located Speedway gas station due to labeling stating that their product may contain up to 10% ethanol. This summer a new Phillips 66 station opened up on Route 40 less than a mile from the Speedway. Their pumps are not marked relative to ethanol content. The station is family owned. I have asked various family members who have been working when I have purchased gas if their product contains any ethanol and each of them have assured that their gas is ethanol free.

Today I found a couple of very simple and inexpensive devices ( graduated glass tubes, essentially) that can be used to measure ethanol content in gasoline of unknown origin. They work on the principle that water, ethanol,and gasoline have different specific gravities. The test simply requires one to place a small volume of water in the tube followed by about an ounce of test specimen gasoline. The tube is then thoroughly agitated and set on a flat surface for the contents to settle out. If ethanol is present it will be visible between the water and the gas. A graduated scale that measures the height of the ethanol column provides an approximation of the % of ethanol in the sample. I will look for it at Tractor Supply. Cost on line is less than $10.

I would be curious if anyone has used such a device to test their gas for ethanol content in order to confirm or refute the posting on the pump.

Cheers,
SS

Need to look for one and maybe get one online.

Very interesting, SS.

The first time that I really noticed that one of my cars was drinking gas like it was going out of style was when I filled up at Swifty in Mooresville or Camby. We left there on a full tank...that car drank so much of it that it was a little frightening. It was almost as if you could see the needle drop as we drove.

I switched to Shell and BP only for the most part. One of the local stations changed from BP over to Exxon Mobil station in my town. They don't have the stickers either, and honestly, I am a little suspect.

I think it was Henthorn's in Indy, a Stihl dealer, that told my dad to run 'Shell Only' in anything that they sell. Our Stihl equipment is running strong to this day, without any carb rebuilds or engine problems of any kind.

After that, and with the cheap Swifty gas I got in the Camby area, I started running Shell and BP exclusively in our cars, and I have found that they run better, and get better mileage.

I find that Shell is almost always the same price as Swifty and Shell. Even when they aren't, I still pay the difference. It is worth it to me.

It might be time to change where you buy gas. No doubt the ethanol may be a problem, However I've used it for ten plus years untreated in a ATV and other small engines without issue. My ATV starts perfectly after ten years.
I recently changed a fuel pump in my 15 year old pickup (with 340,000 miles)and the fuel tank looked brand new inside and was spotless.
So maybe some sources of fuel are of poor quality

Yes I think that is more of the problem than having ethanol in the gas. As I have had 10% in ethanol for many years now in WI. And still mowing with a 20 year old lawn tractor and only in those years rebuilt the fuel pump once.

Ive hauled gas. Its all the same base with different packages of additives added AS THEY PUMP IT IN THE TRUCK!

Sure. You drive by a 'tank farm' how many gas lines do people seem to think that are coming into that tank area? One for every brand of gasoline?
NOPE not at all. One maybe two but certainly not for every brand of gasoline that is in your area that is a given. I thought that was common knowledge.
It maybe Circle K, it may have the Flying J or countless others but those tankers fill up at one Tanker Station with one line or so filling those huge tanks that the trucks use to fill up.

Just like these stations in some areas that sell 10% 15% soon to be 20% 30% and 50% and 85% They are blended and mix right at some of those stations with one tank that has Ethanol in it and the other pumps are connected to that tank and are Mixed when you choose the amount of Ethanol you want.
Those stations have what is called Blender Pumps like is picture below And that is why I don't believe a post that says one area will have oNLY 30% that can't be true. cause this is what is in the future. You choose and pick the Blend of added % of ethanol you want.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/09...capture1-5.png

10% is pretty common here so some tank farms WILL have that mix available to direct load.

It is around here also. They are starting this mixing at a few stations around the country very few at the present time.
But it is coming.
http://farmindustrynews.com/blog/mor...ethanol-blends