NAt Geographic article on greying farmers

I also see more and more small farmers comeing into the fold. I see a few of the big farms upon death of the owner s being broke up and sold, as the land per acre would be worth 1/2 again what it would be worth in a huge block.
IF one man can grow enough to feed 10.000 people, then 10,000 people who get his land upon death can grow as much or more. The world may have to make dietary changes, and if so, that will be lead by Drs and nuteritionests, and it WILL happen. When that happens in significant proportions, the Garden of Eden will arise again.

I am sure glad I will be DEAD by the time that stuff hits, IF it ever does.
I will eat What I want,, When I want it,, and as Much as I want of it~! The heck with ANY government telling ME what the heck to eat or not eat.
I already see some schools are saying the heck with that OVER REACHING FIRST LADY.
These schools will once again serve WHAT the kids WANT AND EAT.
Some schools were already throwing away 80% of the FOOD 80%~!

I was in Pizza Hut the other day at noon hour and many school kids are coming in and EATING WHAT THEY LIKE and WANT.
The heck with the government.
One day I will stop in to Culver's and see how many students are there. LOL
and maybe even Taco Bell.
ALL of these restaurants are within one block of school. LOL

I bet Next year my friends that have Cappuccino machines in these schools will asked to BRING THEM BACK IN. They had to take them out this summer. It won't last long

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You can't feed a family on a lot of the land out west on 5 acres--you can't feed a cow on 5 acres.

One reason for larger farms and ranches is the equipment needed to grow crops practically. You can't afford it with a small farm.

Something often overlooked in the farm size thing, is that in the 1950's, a couple thousand dollars could be a pretty good living. So you needed less land to live off of. Now, you need a fair bit more than that 2000 dollars to survive.

Add to that, fuel at 25 cents a gallon vs. 4 dollars, seed at 3 dollars an acre vs. maybe 60 now.

When folks long for the old time, small farmers, (I admit I long for simpler times too), they tend to not realize what it costs to farm, how stagnant prices of crops and critters have been, and so on.

Even in the 1980's. I have several of my dad's old income tax forms from the 70's and 80's. It cost him around 40 dollars an acre to grow a crop, all costs added in.

In 2014, my cost per acre to grow a crop, seed, fertilizer, fuel, taxes, rent, repair etc., is in the range of 250 bucks an acre. No wonder there is pressure to have more acres, huh?

My dad in the 80's made more money than teachers did at the time, by a long shot. Like 2 or three times kind of thing. And he had WAY less financial risk, way fewer acres than I do, (about 1/4 the acres), and did better than I do now. I do not make what a teacher makes: Let alone two and three times more. And my risk is over 6 times greater.

Don't forget these things about small time farming either.

We could all farm and make a living off a few hundred acres if fuel was 25 cents a gallon, if a new combine was worth 5 000 bucks. But it just isn't so any more. To make a living, size DOES matter.

Prices of food have gone up right along with fuel and taxes. Of course, nothing costs the same as it did in 1950..including the goods you sell.

Sure, food prices have gone up, because of the cost of processing and the middle men. But my dad sold wheat in 1976 for more than I can get for mine now. He sold canola in the same time frame for more than I can now. Same with barley and oats.

If you start talking real dollars, commodities have taken a huge beating.

I agree, food prices have gone up a lot. But commodity prices, with the exception of a few spike years here and there, have been excruciatingly stagnant.

Put another way, my dad bought brand new, 1976, 100 horse power John Deere 4230 for about 3000 bushels of wheat. If I wanted to buy a new equivalent tractor today, ( I do not, I buy well used stuff), I would be looking at needing about 40 000 bushels of wheat.

The thing that is saving us as farmers, is that our technology, agronomics, and yields have been going up, which alleviates slightly the poor commodity scene. For my dad, a good wheat yield while mining the soil would have been 30 bushels an acre. Now, it would be more like 60, while building the soil too. But then we slit our own throats by being too good at growing more grain. If yields had remained stagnant, I am pretty sure we would be getting paid more than 1970's prices for our grains and pulses, and oilseeds.

You woulda had to have a couple thousand acres to make a couple thousand dollars in 1950. Dad worked construction and farmed our 120. His yearly payment to the Land Bank which loaned him the $8000 to buy the place was $800 a year. Only $300 of that was on the note. the $500 was interest. IF a guy working construction and farming both had a hard time of it, How would a farmer just farming on his own make it, unless he inheareted everything.

An acre back in 1950, made just so much, and it cost just so much to put it in. Gas cost a quarter or less. Grocerys were so much cheaper than now,

NOW, an ac re makes WAAAAAAAAAY more than it did in 50, both in the amount of bu and acre, but also the amount of money for that bu.
Gas is higher, and so is seed and fert, grocerys.
What has gone out past this scale is the cost of farm machinery compaired to 1950. That's only because of farmers wanting all the land in 4 states, so as to pay for all the machinery to farm it.

I went to a farm equipment auction today, an old farmer who hadn't purchased any new equipment for a while. But what he had ran well and had been taken care of. But the stuff didn't bring much. It was too small for modern grain farming. The 4020 JD and the Ford 5000 topped the sale around $7000 each. A 8820 JD combine went for $6800. A Gleaner M2 went for $2800 and a mid 70s Chevy grain truck went for $2700.

Several people there were joking about how underpowered the combines were, especially compared to their latest JDs. And who needs a grain truck when everyone has a semi or two?

I talked with two different young farmers, one who is working into it on his own, and one who is following in his father's footsteps. For the one who is doing it without family support, it is a little bit at a time, a slightly newer (mid 80s model) tractor this year, a better planter next year, etc. The other one was able to lease an 80, use his father's equipment to get a crop, and then use the income to start buying nearly new equipment. The one was disappointed he wasn't there to be able to buy some of the stuff that met his needs. The other sat on his hands all day, his equipment was newer or bigger already, and he's not even 30 years old.

There is a big divergence in farming right now. Much of it is connected to generations. The transition from the older generation to the younger generation will be interesting. I don't think that the large scale operations will last all that much longer. There won't be enough farmers who can manage 10,000 acres.

That's interesting. Your horse would love to get into the grain bin and eat himself to death or at least crippling laminitis. To hell with the owner who says otherwise! Let him have what he WANTS!

I am sorry but who defines what "feeding the world" means? I think feeding my and my 3-4 neighbors is feeding the world.

There is a lot of land around this country sitting idle and i don't mean State and National Parks and Forests. I mean land that people own but they are too lazy to touch and help produce something healthy. Instead they are more than happy to go to the grocery store and buy something that may have very well been grown next to a nuclear power plant and glows in the dark.I gave you an example in this thread, I lived in an unincorporated area in South Florida where each lot was between 1.5 and 5 acres, there were thousands of lots and I think 0.1% of them had some, heck any kind of an edible plant on it. So, all together we are talking thousands of acres of land that could have produced year round and fed everyone who lived in that area and probably people in a large radius around it. Does this count as "feeding the world"? Furthermore, why did these people instead choose to spend their weekends mowing the grass lawn (which grows plenty fast in Florida) and dousing it in everything chemical in a bottle that Home Depot or Lowes had to sell them all the while spending gasoline to do it (in addition to the $2,000 mower which could have built numerous raised beds)? Me thinks people are lazy and ignorant and it is easier to glorify the "big farmer" than to admit the truth.... The sad thing is most of these people tried to portray themselves as having conservative values, they also walked around with big belt buckles (but most had never seen a horse or a cow), big trucks raised off the ground (expensive), ATVs, trailers to haul the ATVs etc. In fact, most of them were hell bent on destroying everything around them, tearing up their lots and empty lots with the ATVs and building diesel powered "dune buggies" that easily went into the $10,000+ category. Clearly, they were willing to spend their time and money working on these useless, fossil fuel burning toys. But when it comes to food and what you put into your body? See I think ignorance and laziness reign supreme...

Let's face it - people have been brainwashed to think that only large mono-croppers are the "real farmers". Why? 'Cause apparently there is a magic number that qualifies you as the "world feeder", everyone else is a hobbyist. But even more important reason why? 'Cause it is nice to put the responsibility on "farmer Joe" with his few thousand acres. "He is the expert, let him deal with it". Or "I pay my taxes, I subsidize farmer Joe and in return he feeds us all". I am kind of glad that the big farms are going down, they are bad for the environment and they have been producing poisoned food for decades, not to mention depleting the land of its nutrients, creating dangerous runoff etc.. Maybe the lack of this kind of production will make people go back to growing their own and thinking about what it takes to produce food. A 1,000 acre parcel divided in 100 lots of 10 acres can support 100 families WITHOUT paying the bank and John Deere and the dealers and all the managers. These 100 families can grow diversified offerings that can feed as many people as "the Big Time farmer" with his expensive combines.

I think you are just torturing yourself.

The National Geographic Article was based on the USDA 2012 Agricultural Census. I think it might be wise to consider the Nat. Geog. article as a thought-provoker only--not a conclusive statement as to the condition of American agriculture. After all, the USDA Census results is a report that is nearly 600 pages of tables--and if you want to, you can also go through the data state by state and territory in yet another set of tables..... I wouldn't jump to any big conclusions based on one article by one free lance writer.

A couple of things that jumped out at me:

The average age of farmers in 1982(thirty years ago) was 52 years old--that's not that far from 58 years old today........ Fifty-eight isn't really all that old to me, especially considering the safety and labor-saving improvements that have been made since then, not to mention lesser exposure rates to noise, sun rays, physical strains, heat and dust, etc. To me, it is a good thing that a farmer can still operate his or her farm until a ripe old age(like me...) I remember seeing a good many stooped over and broken down farmers in my youth(including those with missing fingers or hands)

Sometimes we think only in terms of BTO's in the areas of grains(corn, soybeans, wheat, rice, and cotton) as if they are the only kind of farming in America. Take a look at the tables--especially Table 51 and you'll see all sorts of farm activities from fruit to nuts, tobacco (still) to rabbits and chrysanthemums, Christmas trees, cucumbers, cherries and grapes, and maybe even emus. American agriculture is hugely diverse, and I'm thankful for that. Yes, there lots of farm auctions that get the coverage--lots of farmers crash and burn. But my money is on the farmers, young and old, who use sophisticated methods and computers and knowlege-driven tools to succeed and keep going.

In the combined category of farms from 1--49 acres, in 1982, there were 616,917 of those farms. In 2012, there were 813,183 farms. While the other categories have shown losses in mid to large farms, those are the farms that have been bought up and consolidated into the so-called mega-farms---NOT the small, dare I call them micro-farms? Seems like the small type of farm still has a very good chance to make it in America. But not particularly if those small farmers try to grow and sell the commodities that the BTO's now own(corn, beans, wheat, rice, cotton, or feedlot production). There is a place where you can buy in and fit in--but it will take risk, lots of special knowlege, and development up front before you can sell a product. And I am of the opinion that a homestead/small landholding operation doesn't have to make much of an outside profit( if any), so long as it is producing for the needs of a family and doing it without too many purchased inputs. In other words, self-contained and largely self-sufficient should be the goal--and you shouldn't need to use a scythe or raise goats to do that......

It's time to shed some of the traditional thoughts of the "family farm" and look to the ways WE homesteaders or micro-farmers(or whatever other name you want to call US) can succeed on the category of 1--49 acres, and quit looking the big John Deere machines. To date, I haven't seen very much discussion of successes in this forum, but a lot of hand-wringing.

geo

I don't do it with horses but then I have when getting yearlings to grow. I have had them on what is called Total Feed. You build them up with more and more feed till they start leaving some. Then they will eat ONLY what they want WHEN they want it, grain in front of them at all times.

And my steers the last 6 months before going to the freezer have a HUGE tub of grain FILLED to the top, and they then eat as much as they want, WHEN THEY want it.
I dump 100 lbs. of grain into a bin and ONE STEER that I raise at a time can eat what he want when he wants as much as he wants.
have been doing it that way for the last 40 Years~
One steer will eat around 500#s of grain in one month and that is the minimum order I can get mixed up with MY OWN Grain Recipe.
Which is also a very good horse mixture as well. Forgot to add that is all the grain they want and NO Hay at all for those steers going to the butcher in those last 6 months. LOL

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Now if you are actually curious to read some scientific studies - all that grain finishing to add "marble" to the meat causes the Omega 3 and Omega 6 fatty acid ratios to get off kilter in the meat, making it unhealthy for you. Grass fed all the way to the last day, on the other hand, has these fatty acids in proper ratios.

I am not sure I understood your whole post.

I feed my horses only hay, I may add supplements but they are mostly flax seed, cosequin for the old horse(s)' joints, magnesium etc. I do not ever feed things that have sugar in them just like I don't feed myself things that have (hidden) sugar in them.

[QUOTE=ognend;7223288]I am sorry but who defines what "feeding the world" means? I think feeding my and my 3-4 neighbors is feeding the world.

There is a lot of land around this country sitting idle and i don't mean State and National Parks and Forests. I mean land that people own but they are too lazy to touch and help produce something healthy. Instead they are more than happy to go to the grocery store and buy something that may have very well been grown next to a nuclear power plant and glows in the dark.I gave you an example in this thread, I lived in an unincorporated area in South Florida where each lot was between 1.5 and 5 acres, there were thousands of lots and I think 0.1% of them had some, heck any kind of an edible plant on it. So, all together we are talking thousands of acres of land that could have produced year round and fed everyone who lived in that area and probably people in a large radius around it. Does this count as "feeding the world"? Furthermore, why did these people instead choose to spend their weekends mowing the grass lawn (which grows plenty fast in Florida) and dousing it in everything chemical in a bottle that Home Depot or Lowes had to sell them all the while spending gasoline to do it (in addition to the $2,000 mower which could have built numerous raised beds)? Me thinks people are lazy and ignorant and it is easier to glorify the "big farmer" than to admit the truth.... The sad thing is most of these people tried to portray themselves as having conservative values, they also walked around with big belt buckles (but most had never seen a horse or a cow), big trucks raised off the ground (expensive), ATVs, trailers to haul the ATVs etc. In fact, most of them were hell bent on destroying everything around them, tearing up their lots and empty lots with the ATVs and building diesel powered "dune buggies" that easily went into the $10,000+ category. Clearly, they were willing to spend their time and money working on these useless, fossil fuel burning toys. But when it comes to food and what you put into your body? See I think ignorance and laziness reign supreme...

Let's face it - people have been brainwashed to think that only large mono-croppers are the "real farmers". Why? 'Cause apparently there is a magic number that qualifies you as the "world feeder", everyone else is a hobbyist. But even more important reason why? 'Cause it is nice to put the responsibility on "farmer Joe" with his few thousand acres. "He is the expert, let him deal with it". Or "I pay my taxes, I subsidize farmer Joe and in return he feeds us all". I am kind of glad that the big farms are going down, they are bad for the environment and they have been producing poisoned food for decades, not to mention depleting the land of its nutrients, creating dangerous runoff etc.. Maybe the lack of this kind of production will make people go back to growing their own and thinking about what it takes to produce food. A 1,000 acre parcel divided in 100 lots of 10 acres can support 100 families WITHOUT paying the bank and John Deere and the dealers and all the managers. These 100 families can grow diversified offerings that can feed as many people as "the Big Time farmer" with his expensive combines.



It is obvious you don't understand farming or the farm economy.

Why don't you think people have the right to grow grass if they would like to? Why do you think you have the right to decide other people can't own land and not grow crops on it? Some people like to enjoy their land without farming it. I suppose that if the guy that owns the 1000 acres do not want to sell it should just be taken and given to others.

Ummm...Succulent! Grill me one! (But only one...)

geo

[quote=Molly Mckee;7224039]It's okay, Molly. As time passes, it gets awfully hard to hoe when you have a big chip on your shoulder....

geo

I don't think we are too far from GPS operated equipment that run automatically 24/7 and even refuel themselves or at least return to the fueling station. When that happens there won't be many "farms".

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Ha I kind of fall into both of these categories. I own some big newer equipment that I use with my dad in the row crop operation, then I have older equipment that I use for hay and livestock operations. Between us we row crop 1500 acres and so alot of custom work also. We use my older stuff in the row crop operation also but I'd hate to try and do it with an M2 or an 8820. We've done it, 1000 acres, with both but they were new. Our 9760 will run circles around both of those while doing a much better job thrashing.

How many bushels or how many acres does it take to buy that? Is there any way, other than starting out as a billionaire, to get into farming, unless you are already farming?

You can pick up an older JD 4400 or 6600 combine for well under 10k.. heck the 4400 will go for 3k plus a 2k rebuild. Still using ours....

It's not hard to get big equipment if you can put a little time into fixing it.

My point is that there are fewer young people looking to row crop, raise cattle etc. Most of the ag groups push market gardens, CSA, and niche farming. While that is a great money maker, they are extremely labor intensive and run on thinner margins than a larger operation (I'm talking under 1k acres here).