How to plant grass if you can't till?

I have a twenty acre grass/weed field here in southern Arizona, very similar to Wyoming land but not so much snow LOL. I have been advised to burn my field to get rid of the Russian thistle but I am also leery of burning down the few trees that I have, after reading this I am thinking to disc it and then seed it with something tough like Bermuda which will squeeze out many other plants.

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www.MontanaSticksAndStones.com at Goshen Farm

I feel ya Sisterpine. We have skunk weed like crazy. Nasty stuff! I'd have a grass mix and I'm just not sure how well it would beat them out.

Will discing kill thistle? Will discing spread thistle seed? Will Bermuda squeeze out thistle?

One can hand broadcast at a slightly heavier rate with the mob, storm or frost. Animals, rain and frost action drives the seed to soil. This works great for us as we can't do machine tilling and such since we live on stoney, stumpy, steep soils. We have done 70 acres this way after we logged it off back to the original stone walls in two passes. About 10 acres of that was 'field' when we started and we just seeded right over it. The weather drove the seed down. We're in the mountains of central northern Vermont Zone 3 so probably similar to you climate-wise.

Cheers,

-Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/

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SugarMtnFarm.com -- Pastured Pigs, Poultry, Sheep, Dogs and Kids

Keep it mowed low enough to keep the current stuff from going to seed then after a couple of good hard frost burn it off. Then apply the seed and cover with straw to prevent erosion and keep the birds away.

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You could use a Seeder, which punches holes in the ground and puts grass seed in each hole.

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Shari

Can you reconsider and use goats and portable elecetric fencing next year to clear, bring back the land next year?
I have been really impressed with how well my goats have done on my pasture in just two years. Less weeds, more grass, more clover,
Sure, I have to move them every two days, but only takes a hour or so by myself, less with two people.
Oh, I hand broad cast some haymaker seed mix before and after the goats have been in a given paddock. Better to do it just before a good rain!
Let the animals and nature do the work for you!

With say fescue seed you can mow it as low as possible and broadcast now or in the spring. With say red clover you broadcast it in the winter and let freeze/thaw work it in. It depends a lot on what you want to seed.

I seeded a half acre of my property my second year here to cover bare spots up to 15 feet across and the thin area using a couple bags of family dollar store seed mixed into 5 gallon buckets of wormcast that I used as a sludge spray using a garden hose into an inlet I put on the bucket and a short hose connected to an outlet hose as a broadcast sludge sprayer.

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"I didn't have time to slay the dragon. It's on my To Do list!"

Check your local NRCS soil district. Many have no-till seeders available for rent. Not expensive, either.

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Honesty and integrity are homesteading virtues.

Well, grass seed likes to be put 1/4 inch deep in firm soil and have moisture and takes a long time to sprout and establish.

Weeds like to suck up moisture, shade small seedlings, and generally not let grass seed get 1/4 inch deep in firm moist soil....

You either need to kill the weeds gone; or till the soil, smooth the soil, wait for a rain, smooth the soil to kill weed sprouts, plant, and hope for the best.

A blade, even with scarifier is not a good tillage machine. You need a good tillage machine if you aren't going to spray.

Frost seeding, or spreading the seed and harrowing the weeds with a fence panel will plant a small amount of the seeds, but you need to seed very thick as less than half will set, and you will need to mow the weeds for a few years before the grass will make itself a good grass pasture. Will you mow it every couple weeks to select for the grass over the weeds?

Without adjusting your soil ph if it is low, the grass might not ever really come on.

Adding the correct amount of P and K for what your soil needs would -sure- help the grass grow better, the weeds less so. This could be an organic fertilizer if that is your wish, as is the lime to adjust the ph.

It kinda sounds like you don't want to spend on anything or do anything, and you are trying to establish a crop that grows well once it is established, but it is hard to establish a grass.

Not sure you will get far really. You have to give in on one or two of the three big points here. Good seedbed, or dead weeds, or good soil ph/ fertility.

Remember, if farming were easy everyone would do it.

Paul

An old method of planting different grasses is to feed the kind of hay that is the grass you want. If you want Timothy, or crested wheatgrass, or whatever type you want, feed that kind of hay to whatever livestock you have in the area you want planted. The seed present in the hay will often take next spring, while the inevitable excess hay and manure will provide a good mulch and fertilizer. It isn't quick and isn't perfect. But it does work.

We would be putting the goats on the land. I'm not sure they would eat stink weed though. Would they?

I had horses on my land for a very short period of time. About 5 months. Anyway, we do have some grass growing in various places and I'm sure it's because of them. So it's a good enough idea. I'd just hoped to have something for the animals to eat before I put them on it. lol

Will try. Thanks!

Check with your local fire district before you set a fire. Here it's not legal to burn, you get to pay to have it put out, fined and if you start a wildfire you may never get the damage paid for.

Excellent question!
I know I have stink weed (as I can smell it). I have not seen them eat it, but they generally nibble at everything.
With mob grazing, the competition for food they will wipe out nearly everything in the paddock in two days.
If any stink weed is still available (been cool lately) I will try and see it they will eat it.
I have had only once in a year and a half where a goat got even remotely "ill" with loose bowels for a day from eating something that did not agree with her.

Ever read Greener Pastures On Your Side of the Fence, by Bill Murphy?
He cites a study he did in VT on 10% of seeds a animal eats, passes through and is deposited on the other end.
He also comments on the stepping action of live stock, when mob grazed, increases seed to soil contact.

Let me know how your experiment goes! I'd like to know.

Take a heavy log with the bark still on it about 5-6 feet long.
Screw in 2 large eye bolts one on each end.
Run chains through them and pull it behind your tractor slowly.
It should rough up the ground enough for planting grass seed
You may have to put some weight on it if it doesn't stay in contact with the ground

I would mow it very very short first.


edited to add: I see you said you had railroad ties, those would work also if you can get the eye bolts into them (or figure out another way to drag it so it stays in contact with the ground)

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