Salamanders in the spring box

Paumon · #21 09/11/14, 10:08 PM

P.S. to my last post - when the salamanders have eaten up and cleaned out all of the other food prey they're presently finding in the spring box they will likely move on in search of a new source of food. But right now they are doing you a service keeping your spring box from getting over-populated with whatever else it is in there that they're eating.

CajunSunshine · #22 09/12/14, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paumon

I think you should only clean the water that you're going to be drinking, but not the spring box. As you mentioned, if you chlorinate that you take the risk of killing the salamanders and having dead salamanders contaminating the water, but the salamanders are not the only things that would be killed and contaminating the water.

Salamanders have to eat too so if they're living in the spring box it's because whatever they're eating is also living in the spring box. It means the water is clean and healthy if it's inhabited by salamanders and other critters and even if you were able to catch the salamanders and relocate them there would still be their food prey left behind living in there.

Chlorinate the spring box and you poison everything and contaminate the water with dead critters, but if you leave it alone and only clean your drinking water then everyone in the spring box and in your house is healthy and happy.

I must agree, this sounds like the perfect sensible solution: Purify only the water as it comes into the house. I didn't think about dying critters.

Initially, I was thinking more along the lines of gradually increasing the amount of bleach over several hours, giving the resident critters the option of leaving, before shocking the spring box with lethal doses. But if those guys are like "canaries in the mine", even a small amount of bleach would probably kill them?

But...if this was my spring box, and if I found that over time, it was becoming home to a colony of salamanders or too many other critters, I would be tempted to rebuild the springbox more securely, if possible. At the very least, I would probably attempt to begin evicting them with a very small amount of salt, or baking soda, or (?)...anything to run the critters out without killing them--before securing the fort, so to speak.

I've met Salmonella before, and it ain't pretty (even though I have a very strong immune system and have not seen a doctor or the inside of a hospital in years, except for a rattlesnake bite). I don't wish Sal or Ella to visit anyone here, f'sure.

.

bigd-bigm · #23 09/12/14, 08:59 PM

Well I evicted the salamanders manually and have installed some screens to keep out the ones coming from downstream. I have also made it very difficult for any that may be in the spring source to venture back there if they wander to the spring box. So I will keep an eye on the spring box for the foreseeable future and see if I get any more. If I do I am sure they will be from upstream. If I don't see any then maybe they never made it that far I guess.

I will stay away from bleaching the spring box or upstream waters.

Thanks

DavidUnderwood · #24 09/13/14, 09:53 AM

Sounds like a plan!
In any case, I think I'd rather have spring lizzards in
my spring box than chlorine. It is nessecary sometimes,
but has its own drawbacks.
Wonder how long people have used spring houses?
Wonder how long they had chlorine to use that way?
Yeah. Me too!

JoePa · #25 09/13/14, 10:22 AM

Why do so many people have these cisterns and spring boxes? wouldn't it be a lot better to just drill a deep well for your water needs - I know that there is a certain cost to drilling a well but look at the advantages - what say you - then you don't have to worry about critters getting into your water -

Harry Chickpea · #26 09/13/14, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoePa

Why do so many people have these cisterns and spring boxes? wouldn't it be a lot better to just drill a deep well for your water needs - I know that there is a certain cost to drilling a well but look at the advantages - what say you - then you don't have to worry about critters getting into your water -

I have a well. Paid a couple grand for it. It came in dry.

DavidUnderwood · #27 09/13/14, 07:16 PM

Last well we drilled here went 400 ft and got 2 gal
a minute of sorry tasting water. And a pump for a
400 ft well is expensive to buy and maintain. I'm on
county water now. Its the least expensive option.
And the water quality is purdy dang good!

bigd-bigm · #28 09/13/14, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoePa

Why do so many people have these cisterns and spring boxes? wouldn't it be a lot better to just drill a deep well for your water needs - I know that there is a certain cost to drilling a well but look at the advantages - what say you - then you don't have to worry about critters getting into your water -

Yeah. We drilled one well and got nothing. After paying for a deep hole we decided to dig another (smart huh?). The second one did barely enough to supply our family. Even with storage. Then after a few years it slowed to 5 gal an hour. SO instead of throwing more money into another dry hole we decided to develop a spring we have on our property. We keep the well running. It is on a timer to pump dry daily. Water goes into cistern and helps during the fall when the spring slows down.

**highlands** · #29 09/13/14, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoePa

Why do so many people have these cisterns and spring boxes? wouldn't it be a lot better to just drill a deep well for your water needs - I know that there is a certain cost to drilling a well but look at the advantages - what say you - then you don't have to worry about critters getting into your water -

1) We love on top of thick granite bedrock.

2) It is very expensive to drill a well through that thick granite bedrock.

3) You have to drill a long ways.

4) It is very expensive.

5) Our spring works great, no need to fix what isn't broken.

But, if you would like to send me $25,000 (cash will do nicely) I will drill a well and we can find out if it is better than our spring. I'll do a nice little writeup here and give you credit for funding the project. All you have to do is provide the money, honey.

Cheers,

-Walter

farmrbrown · #30 09/13/14, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highlands

1) We love on top of thick granite bedrock.

3) You have to drill a long ways.

4) It is very expensive.

5) Our spring works great, no need to fix what isn't broken.

I'll do a nice little writeup here and give you credit for funding the project. All you have to do is provide the money, honey.

Cheers,

-Walter

Fun.
In moderation, of course.

Freeholder · #31 09/14/14, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KIT.S

Well, around here I'd be careful with salamanders in my water.

"Red-bellied newts have a brownish-black topside to avoid being noticed. When that fails, and they are seen and disturbed, they pull their heads and tails back to reveal their bright-red undersides. This serves as a warning to potential predators, as red-bellied newts have enough of a neurotoxin, tetrodotoxin, in their skin to easily kill an adult human, or 7,500 mice. Like other newts, red-bellied newts have the ability to regenerate several body parts, including their limbs, eyes, hearts, intestines, and upper and lower jaws, and damaged spinal cords."

I've heard of people who accidentally consumed water with the red-bellied salamander in it (scooped up with the coffee water, put on the camp fire) and died, but it may be a myth.

I used to play with them when I was a kid, buy my grandkids are thoroughly discouraged from handling them.
Kit

Kit, it's not a myth. I see you are in the Willamette Valley. You (or whoever told you about it) may have heard about an incident that happened many years ago near Florence. A couple of guys were camping and scooped up coffee water from the creek after dark, not realizing they'd gotten a water dog (your red-bellied salamander) in the water. They were found dead the next morning. I believe my grandfather knew them; it happened not too far from where my family lived.

Kathleen

JoePa · #32 09/15/14, 08:16 AM

Well - I got my answer - thanks - I guess I'm spoiled when it comes to water from a well since we can get all the water we want from a 150 ft. well around here - seems like certain parts of the country has problems getting water out of the ground -

bigd-bigm · #33 10/01/14, 01:57 PM

Been 3 weeks now and no salamanders in the spring box. Guess my stainless steel screens are doing the trick.

TedH71 · #34 10/02/14, 12:00 AM

Need to see what species of salamander they are. Some species are really endangered while some aren't. I still recall the day my biology teacher in middle school brought over a jar full of very interesting salamanders that she had found on the property in a cave along with cave crawfish that were blind. The salamanders were blind. Turns out the salamanders were the endangered Barton Creek salamander http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barton_Springs_salamander and the cave crawfish were more than likely a new species undiscovered to science. The crawfish ate all the salamanders! The teacher then returned the crawfishes into the well where they came from.

bigd-bigm · #35 12/22/14, 12:13 PM

So it has been a few months since I ousted those pesky salamanders from my spring box and installed my stainless steel screens to keep them out.
Yesterday I was up to have a look-see and I spotted one small
Salamander. Not sure but I am suspecting I missed him on my initial eviction. He was pretty small and very good at hiding. So this time I got my siphon hose and took all water out of the box to be sure they were all gone. So guess I will give it a few more months and check again

mnn2501 · #36 12/23/14, 01:31 PM

half cup of bleach per gallon is waaaaaaaay overkill. It'll take forever to get the bleach taste out and at that strength you would kill anything drinking it, including yourself.