Deciding which farm, keeping DW happy
 

Would like your thoughts. Am I crazy? How do I sell this idea to DW?

Three years ago, I bought a 170 acre farm and have been working on it 2 or 3 weeks a month to make it what we want. We are weeks away from starting construction on our home.

Six months ago I got an email from a realtor, with photos of a farm and home for sale that is the perfect thing DW and I want. It was very pricey, but it was useful looking at it online to get ideas for what we will build.

In the last few weeks, after 4 price reductions from a highly motivated seller, the price has come down so much on new farm that on a purely financial basis, it makes more sense to sell current farm and buy new farm. I went and saw it and it's not perfect but an excellent fit. New farm has a small horse barn, large equipment barn with 2 walk-in coolers for butchering, a big house that is very close to perfect for us, 4 acre pond, 3 other smaller ponds, a running creek, a captive deer herd, is high fenced all around the perimeter, has 3x our current acres. All that stuff still has to get built on current farm.

The downside is that the new place is much more remote. For social things, like DW running a girl scout troop, running an after school program, having boarders at our barn (we know it doesn't create meaningful income but it gives DW like minded horse friends), DW just doesn't think she would be happy. Part of her current stress is the sudden change of direction and she is somewhat resistant to change. But the part about making friends is a real concern. We both really like having life, kids, friends and neighbors on the farm. For that, new farm would be much harder. DW is a retired middle school teacher and swim coach, loves the kids.

Another advantage of our current farm is we have national forest on 3 sides, so it seems like we have thousands of acres all to ourselves. On the 4th side, is a small neighborhood that would be the source of kids on the farm.

Why I want to change to the new place? We wouldn't have to wait another year to finish building a house; we could move in and get our lives settled in within a month or two. New place has more house and would end up being less money. New place has a barn and stable that we would not have to build, saving us lots of money. More land for me to work with. It has all that high fence I could not afford to construct on the old place.

My highest priority is that DW and I are together and that she is happy. I'm really sick of living apart most of every month while I'm on the farm and she is back in Virginia. This is a forever decision for us as we plan on living at which ever place the rest of our lives.

WWYD? Should I just forget about new farm? Should I keep trying to convince DW of the advantages? Am I missing something?

Yep, you are missing something important... Keeping a woman happy for any length of time is never easy and seldom possible. It makes no difference what farm you choose, nor what the benefits may be of one over the other. She is either going to be happy or she isnt, and you my good man, have very little to do with that. :)

If your wife doesn't think she'll be happy there then all the pros and cons aren't going to mean much. If mama ain't happy, no one is happy!

What is the already built place surrounded by? How much have you been out there? What are the time on the road to each place? (10 minutes difference, 30, or 2 hours?)
What is the purpose of the property being bought? Just a home, or your income and you'll be working there all the time?

And are you positive you can sell the current property in time to make payments on the other one? or can you afford payments on both for 1 month, a year, 2 years more?

Just things I'd need to know before giving you an opinion.

I absolutely agree on that.

Part of my problem is understanding how much of her stress right now is resistance to change and how much is real concerns about new farm.

Have you tried both of you sitting down together and actually making a joint list of pro's and con's, and discussing each one? Sometimes a woman doesn't really mean no. Sometimes, she just needs to feel heard and supported.

New place is surrounded by mostly large holdings, some commercial timberland, there are a few 20 acre homes nearby. It is an hour west of Tallahassee. Some here will not think that is all that remote, but to us it is.

I have not spend much time by new farm, just seen it once a could of days ago. If DW is open to moving there, I still have to get a deal done and all the due diligence required to make sure I'm not buying a toxic waste dump or whatever other problems may be making the seller motivated. I think he is simply having financial problems because he also has an expensive boat for sale.

Time on road? I'm not sure what you are asking. They are about 5 hours apart from each other.

Purpose? Retirement home, a life long dream of a certain life, pleasure, some income will be nice but is not critical. Social Storm security. Its remoteness makes new farm a much better social storm property because of the distance from neighbors.

Selling the current place, not an issue. It is paid off, taxes are <$500/year, so if it took 2 years to sell, not a major problem. I've got a sweet heart financing deal to buy the new place, 1.8% interest, interest only payments, once the old place sells I would own new farm free and clear. Finance is what I used to do for a living so I've got that angle fully covered and know hands down new place is a better financial deal by a wide enough margin that it really has my interests.

Thanks, but...

I can't make her happy, but I can make her unhappy. She's got needs which don't always match mine 100%, so I'm trying to be understanding and respectful of that.

Good advice. I go back home in a few days and will do so. This just further emphasizes my frustration on not living with her full time. We've been doing the talks over the phone and it is not like a face to face convo.

Main question is, has she made a visit to the different farm to see it for herself? I wonder if you've been there in person also. It would make a world of difference if you, both, could make it there together to check it out and discuss. My wife is the type to want to make a visit and maybe spend a weekend at a place before considering moving there. I used to not be like that but now that I'm older, I take more after her in that area of research.

I toured new farm Thursday. It was enough to get me excited at the possibility of living there, but more research needs to be done. DW is resistant to even going to look at the place, hence my frustration. If she went there and really decided she would not be happy there, I could walk away from the deal and know we made the right decision.

Could you bring a lot of pictures, and have the two prices and advantages ready for her to look at? I think what would really sway me, also, as a woman, would be to hear that the reason you wanted this one was because you would rather spend more time with me fixing up our dream home than build all that stuff alone. I'd play that up, the time you two would be spending together versus you being away and working.

I also highly support fully discussing the pros and cons of each property. Furthermore, I'd do this on paper in columns. It is way too easy to get off-topic if feelings get ruffled. Also, I will share something...

When one spouse has to give in to the other spouse, the outcome usually isn't the best. When we bought our last property, we didn't sit down and to the pros/cons on paper. My DH gave in to me and that was A BIG MISTAKE! We lived there and made the best of it for almost 9 years (DH was never very happy with our property, but I was). We have since had that serious pros/cons discussion and bought a property where we BOTH want to live, the type we BOTH wanted, and now we are BOTH happy! DH is going to accomplish one of his goals in life, building us a log home. This has made me very happy, too. I had to move away from my friends, but my DH is more important. They can come to see me or I can go visit them.

We made our joint decision based on needs, wants, and hopes. The need had a lot to do with bettering our finances.

It is unreasonable for your DW to refuse to even look at the property, in my opinion. Out of simply respecting your feelings, she should go see it.

I hope your DW wakes up and smells the proverbial coffee, as that other property sounds fantastic!

Well the obvious solution is divorce :P

I'd hit her with the financials of both properties and show how much further you'll be ahead on the newer property. I imagine neither of you are spring chickens, so saving 3-5 years of labor now, can be a huge bonus in 10 years....

Big thing for your wife might me riding possibilities, especially if she wants to get boarders. If she's into trail riding, the place you already have might fit that need better. Where I have my horses, I cannot really ride off the farm. Places we could have been sold and houses built. So in order to ride, I have to trailer off property. And, since the lights aren't working on my trailer right now, I feel kind of trapped.

As the head of your household you have to do what you think is best for everyone. Good luck! I hope you choose wisely.

Y'all have some thinkin' to do!

We found the perfect 20 ac, just beautiful, so different from most tracts in this part of the country. N. Tx is not that pretty.
Problem? Too far. In fact that's what we named it. 02 Far (DH used to sell oxygen, hence, oh too far)
After 8 yrs of toiling, back & forth-60 mi-DH decides no way does he want to live waaaay out there. I'm crushed but should've known in the 1st place.
:(

Can't express how important this is...keep this attitude and you will do well whichever way you end up going.

Tell her that. It both tells her how important it is to you, how important she is to you, and gives her the freedom to decide.

There might be a reason that you are not seeing.

You bought a property three years ago and now you have another property in mind that would be better. Has this happened before? Will it happen again? Maybe this is the real problem.

Not being settled is a really big problem for many.

As someone who is trying to sell her property, "Too far out" is a refrain I'm really getting tired of.

Too far out gets more important as you age.

ride off possibilities is a big deal to us. That was a big reason we chose the other place. It is one of the things I can't fix about new farm.

I can put all the financial issues into a spreadsheet and analyze everything and come up with the best financial decision, but the rest-of-our-life social aspects and fun of being able to ride off into 10s of thousands of acres at current farm isn't something that fits into a spreadsheet.

Where DW keeps her horses by our home in VA, she has to trailer everywhere. Both horses load by pointing and saying "In". DW is a great trainer. She rides 5 days a week and has a dozen state and national parks/forests where she routinely visits. I think even with current farm's ride off opportunities, she would still want to trailer a lot just to find new and interesting trails.

I have far less resistance to change than most folks because for 20 years of owning several businesses, we made profits by changing faster than everyone else. The current farm fits most of our needs and can be made to work for us, but new farm fits our needs even better except for social and horse fun issues. If the house and barn were already started, I would not consider the farm change for a even a second. Also, in the last 3 years, I've come to see more of the value of a social storm property.

DW is very resistant to change. When we left FL 19 years ago, it nearly killed our marriage. She did not want change and the fact that she was prego added to the problem. But we had to move because that was the only way I could afford to be the sole breadwinner for a growing family; we were firmly committed to a stay at home, full time mom. Over the years, she got very happy, made lots of friends, found a lot of personal success in her numerous activities, and now it is very hard for her to move again. But she has had several years to get used to the idea of the move and me throwing a sudden change into the mix upsets her. I understand it, even if it frustrates me at times.

some photos which may show you why I fell in love with the place. I can't afford to build that house. The current owner is taking a loss which makes it possible for us to fit it in our financial means.

That pond is in front of the house and the high fencing is around almost all 500+ acres.

I also have a hard time with sudden changes and it takes some time for me to come around to new ideas. So I suspect this is a big piece of it. Especially with your later posting about leaving Florida years ago.

Do you already know people near your land? It sounds like both place are going to be a new for establishing friends and activities for your wife. If she is set on being involved with girl scouts and other activities you probably don't want to be an hour out of town. In any new area this may be difficult to do just moving in. Oy maybe the more rural area has a bigger need for volunteers to work with the kids.

Yes, I think you highlighted the problem. Change.

There is always somewhere better, a better, deal, a better setup, etc. Those are not the things she values. She values relationships.

I believe that you try to please your wife - to a point - but when it gets down to making important decisions like buying a house or not you as the man of the house must make the final decision - often it is impossible to please both people - just tell her why you think that the new place is much better then what you have now - then make the decision - a family will never be strong if the wife is the boss - everybody suffers from that situation - the only exception to this fact is if the guy is some kind of a nutcase -

Where are the kids living, is their location fairly permanent?

I agree with keep momma happy but,

The current place has National Forest on 3 sides and a housing development on the other. Sounds like the developers are moving in. What happens when the county decides the best use of your property is for a housing development and raises your taxes or uses eminent domain to take it away from you? Even if that doesn't happen, are the residents of the housing development going to make you give up the horses because they don't like the smell?

While I believe in making decisions together, whenever possible? I agree with you, as my DH should have the final say if we don't agree. It made quite a difference when we bought our new property. When we began our search, we looked within our last community (DH doesn't like change...). Since he wanted to build a log home, I did research into the permit process. We had a serious discussion about, as it was the most important criteria. This moved our search to another County. Once we established the rest of our priorities, finding our new property was easy. It may not be perfect, but perfect for us, since we accept it as such. The goal is to never move, so consideration has been given to all aspects of aging and health concerns. None of our family or friends live here. Of course, we are making new friends, and everyone loves to visit us here! My MIL and FIL bring their motorhome, others bring tents, and others sleep in our camper. For them, it is a vacation...speaking of that?

I just thought of another idea... How about setting up a vacation camp? That would enable the DW to work with the children and it would be a real blast for the kids! The property sounds perfect for that... You could host family reunions and have all sorts of events.

Would it be feasible to buy this property anyway since it is such a good deal and then flip it for a profit if she absolutely still hates the idea a couple of months down the road?

Before we bought current farm, we went around and met all the neighbors, asking them if they knew of a reason we should have any concerns about our purchase. We've made friends with one older couple who have been very nice and helpful. Have made acquaintance relationships with several others because I have the heavy equipment to fix roads, I've hired neighborhood kids to do odd jobs, etc. DW still has all the work to do to make social friends, horse friends, etc because I've been the one living and working on the farm, she has only visited for a total of maybe 15 days over the last 3 years.

We had agreed she would stay home with DD because we wanted DD to finish school in the highly rated schools of Northern VA vs the terrible schools near the farm.

We really don't know enough about new farm area to determine if there is a population with a need for the the things DW wants to do.

While I agree 100%, she hasn't made any meaningful relationships at current farm.

Wow, I had no idea. :smack

Consider me a nutcase. I think a rest of our life decision has to be a mutual decision that meets the needs of both.

What I meant to explain is she may be hesitant because if she agrees to one move now you may want to move again for the next and best. You may just be starting a pattern that will not enable her to make relationships.

One DD, grew up in the 'burbs, has gone off to college. She hates change tremendously and with all the confidence that comes with youth, is 110% sure she will never, ever, live on the farm or do something as disgusting as shoveling manure. I consider that a personal failing in my duties as a father, but she's an adult now and has to find her own way in life.

It certainly looks like a beautiful place but there must be a reason the buyer is having to drop the price and will lose money. We bought our first farm 1 hour from civilization (work, grocery store, etc.) and it was a place we both loved. We really enjoyed it the first few years but after several hard winters of driving on ice and snow and never having visitors it got old. When my husband became disabled we were forced to sell and move out of state so bought a smaller farm on a paved road 10 minutes from restaurants, hospital, etc. yet we are surrounded by fields and pastures so we truly are in the country. Having lived both, I much MUCH prefer living here and would never go back to living that far from anything. I drove 2 hours a day to when I got in on Friday night, who felt like going back out for dinner and a movie which would mean another 2 hours on the road. No way was I doing 4 hours of driving. It sounds like your wife would really miss having life around her and would grow to hate living out in the boonies no matter how pretty. And, as you get older it becomes even harder to live that far out.

Unlikely of any additional development. All the nearby home lots were created in the 70s, a third to a half of the lots are vacant or have vacant mobile rotting in place. This county has very high unemployment, very low income. There is talk of a major inland port being developed about 45 min away that if true would create hundreds of jobs. But I'll believe it when I see it.

Also, about 10 years ago, the county mandated that min lot size be increased from 3 acres to 5 in order to limit density and pressure on the aquifer.

Florida has a good right to farm law so I'm not worried about neighbor complaints. Besides, well maintained horses do not stink. I've got pigs that don't stink because I know how the value of wood chips.

It is a good deal because it fits our needs so well. It was built as a luxury hunting camp and has high value to those types, but they are rare enough that the seller is taking a big loss. In that part of the state, land does not sell fast.

Besides, I'll be investing my own sweat and money developing gardens and a fairly large orchard. Once that is established, I would not want to give it up. I'm too old to start over.

Nope, this is an end of life decision. Once I put down roots, I'll stay till they spread my ashes in my garden. I have the opportunity to change our current direction now because I have only barely started on the current farm. If I had multiple years invested in fruit and nut trees, or had started building the house and barns, I would not consider a move if you offered me a $1M profit.