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Gas pipeline under farm?
Looking into purchasing an additional hay field, and come to find out now that it is planned to have a natural gas pipeline going right through the field. I understand that this will not effect my ability to hay the field but I am concerned. They are seeking an easement, and for those who do not allow it they are claiming they will use eminent domain. I have never dealt with anything like this before. What if it leaks? The field is certified organic and I'm also wondering how this will effect that certification, the realtor swears up and down that it will not effect it.
On the upside they will have to pay me ( if I am the owner ) to go through it...but I'm not sure I want a gas pipe going through my property. Anyone else have experience with this or any insight? |
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Under. They bury it 5 ft down.
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There's an 18" that was replaced about fifteen year ago on a nearby farm. The pipeliners weren't particularly careful when they replaced the soil over the line. They'll have soil left over that will be spread on the surface when the job is completed. That will more than likely not be the original top soil. It will be the less fertile subsoil. That means the swath of soil in their new ROW won't grow hay as well as it did before the pipe line went in.
Having the ROW also means they may spray to kill unwanted vegetation. In the case of the nearby farm, the excavation spread sycamore seed from the bottom near the creek to the steep hillsides where sycamore never grew previously. The subsequent spraying to kill the sycamore trees was not announced before hand. Fortunately none of the poultry near the ROW seemed to be affected. |
I know this isn't exactly the same but we have a major electric line that runs across the back of the farm. About 2 years ago they replaced all the poles that ran across our land, and about every 2-3 years they run a crew to do maintenance on the lines, such as cutting tree limbs, or trees or brush growing right under the line or in the right of way.
When the work crew shows up, make yourself a presence at the jobsite. Find the guy in charge of the project, the one on site, let him know who you are, what you use the land for, what your expectations are for after their work is done. Also contact his boss, you know the guy who he answers to that will never come to the jobsite. But be nice, be really nice, just be there. In our experience they don't want to have to deal with unhappy landowners, and if your nice most of the time they'll go out of their way to leave the land as close to the condition they found it in. Especially if your watching and checking and out there shooting the breeze with them frequently. Let them know you farm it and for that field its important to replace the topsoil over their trench. Ask them what to look for if the pipe should be leaking underground, how often do these pipes leak, who should I call if I think anything isn't right? Get some phone #'s, but do in a friendly way. You may not be able to stop them from putting it in, but maybe you can get some important info that you can use later when the pipeline is there, just in case you ever need it. |
1) they have awesome lawyers, so be careful with whom you engage.
2) as to leaking, it's not an if, but a when. 3) when they do buzz thru and bury the line, they will swath a roughly 60 yard wide path, about 2 feet deep. The trench itself will be much deeper. The upside: 4) Femces will be replaced, and done professionally. 5) when they return the mounds of dirt to the swath, you will have decompacted soil. Large Stones removed (tossed in the trench) 6) they will re-seed and leave the swath in better shape than before. Unless the timing is horrible, you won't lose a hay season. |
Well remember, I haven't bought the place yet. The lawyer for the seller wants me to sign an addendum to the contract. They are legally required to inform me of the plan to put this pipeline in. I'm pretty much on the fence at this point. I could refuse to sign, get my initial deposit back ( 1,000 ) and keep looking.
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If it were me, I'd keep looking. It's not like you're gonna get free gas out of it... or do you? Honestly, with all of the other challenges on a homestead, I wouldn't want this one added to it. Nor would I want overhead power lines. But that's just me.
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Our place came with a pipeline, ironically it carries natural gas but we have to use propane. We don't get any compensation on an ongoing basis, the previous owners got paid when it was put in and the money train stops there.
They do flyover inspections regularly. Apparently the vegetation changes color if there's a leak and this is easier to spot from the air. They will come in and take out trees that are too close, this has only happened to us once in 20+ years. They sent someone out a week in advance and informed us. Sinclair owns "our" pipeline. I'm sure every company will be better or worse to work with. |
Its going to depend a lot on where you are at. My grandfathers farm had a pipeline put in in the 30 and to this day you can tell where they worked and EXACTLY where the trench was dug because the crops are STILL BETTER in the spots they worked. Like AA said before they take a lot of effort to mitigate damages.
Upside is you could get a LOT of your money back ,Embridge has paid as much as $15,000 a acre for the swath disturbed. If it was me Id like to share half the profits my section earned. |
I agree with MO cows. We have a BP gas line that cuts a diagonal across our pasture land. No problem with it being there. You cannot build on it or grow trees on it but you can grow crops and graze/harvest hay on it. Once a week the pipe line plane flies over low at tree top level to check it and once a year we receive a letter from BP reminding us that the pipe line is there, what is being transferred in it (not always gas) and what to do if we spot any trouble such as a wet spot or anything leaking from it. Ever so often they come through and mow if we don't and remove any trees if we don't. They are very nice to deal with and the last time they came with really cool state of the art skid loader mowers, they volunteered to mow a steep incline for us that wasn't even a part of their pipe line.
Do we wish it wasn't there? Sure, but as neighbors go, we sure could be doing worse than BP. |
Check to see if the current owner has already been paid for the easement. If so you won't see any money for it. About all you might get is a loss of use check for any crop you may loose in the laying of the pipeline.
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According to the gas company website http://addisonnaturalgas.com/ there is currently 20% resistance among land owners along the planned site. Anyone know what the odds are that the resisters can win out ? I know these big companies have deep pockets and killer lawyers but ultimately its up to the board to decide whether or not to invoke eminent domain.
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In my experience easements are a pain in the rear!!!! I still don't have normal pasture growth on the dirt that was displaced when they laid a line through my property 15 years ago.
They had a fence company come in and put up a temporary fence to keep my livestock out of the work area. Somehow they thought stringing a fence straight across a creek with 10' banks would not be a problem. They sort of fixed it when I pitched a fit but I can't tell you how many times I had to round up livestock that summer. Had an overhead phone line in my pasture with a maintenance easement. That meant they would show up with no notice and just drive through my pasture anytime they wanted. Took me a bit to figure out who was leaving truck tracks in my pasture. My experience with contractors is they would rather "beg forgiveness than ask permission" ! That came straight out of one of their mouths. Just ran a truck and 4 guys out of my pasture 2 weeks ago. They "thought" it was owned by the tower company. The 6' fence and padlocked gate with a lock they cut off, apparently wasn't a clue that it was private property. Neighbor had an easement for his well and septic on my property (last owner sold a piece of ground to his son). When the septic quite working the people just dug it open and left an open sewage hole. Took a call to public health to get that taken care of. The well was totally underground, I didn't even know it existed. Then the house sold and well inspection made them correct it to 2' about ground. Not really a problem. Then the house sold again and new well inspection made them raise to above flood level. Now it sticks 6' in the air. The cattle enjoyed rubbing on it and snapping the plastic pipe. Owner thought I should pay for it!! Quick call to an attorney made it clear it wasn't my problem. I offered to let them fence off a small area around it, wouldn't have cost them but a cattle panel and 4 fence posts but they didn't want the trouble. Later I managed to get my hands on several truck loads of dirt. Got it worked around the pipe so there is again only a couple feet sticking out and the livestock aren't over their much. Knowing what I know now, I would avoid all easements!!! |
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Since then that power company has sold to a bigger one, then that one sold out too. The line kept upgrading to bigger and bigger also. Nothing we can do about it, its been there since before husband was born. |
No one wants it, we all get to deal with some such someday as we live in society and own something....
Can't build on or within x number of feet of the line. Drainage becomes a problem, repair all tile, or reroute tile to your needs. It will be difficult to run tile over or under their easement.... Make it deep enough to be able to farm over. Deeper is better. You can join in with others and look for give and take to get something better for you, and let them get going. If you simply want to drag it out and whine they will no longer work with you but just run over you, running over you will be cheaper if your goal is just to be a thorn..... Hope it is a national type outfit they tend to be easier to work with. We had a city put in 80 miles of pipe and the city administrator was a jerk, things were done as badly as possible.... The regular outfits that do this for a living want the job done, want to work with people a bit and get going. If you are part of the discussion it works out. Organic, has to be certified so ask who does the certifying there, and ask that group/ person. They hold the stamper. I would expect it is not an issue, but ask them and you will know. Paul |
They put the pipeline on my neighbor's property within 20 ft of my property line. My (now former)place is governed by that power company in that no digging , building within 40 ft of the property line is allowed. They killed a lot of marketable trees digging that line...no compensations... It is very obvious where the line was dug. The soil was thin before and worse afterwards.
Neither I or the owners liked the result....it did not benefit the people who "allowed" it on their property ......... but I guess it is called progress.... |
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The pipeline will devalue the property slightly, either they or you will get paid some for that, and you need to sort out the situation on that. If this is an 80 acre farm field won't affect the value much. If this is a 5 acre field with development potential the pipeline could wipe out 2 out of 5 house plots and greatly decrease the value of the property. All depends what you got going on there. Paul |
If you haven't already bought the place I'd walk away. No way would I want that on my land. Twice in our state there have been explosions. One blew a 5 acre hole in the ground and the other set fire to a creek and killed two little boys and a man. We have a 30 acre lot for sale near us with a pipeline across it. It's in an area of lovely homes but it's been on the market over 3 years and no one will touch it. I know that doesn't happen very often but I wouldn't take the chance.
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We have a gas pipeline and a high tension power line across our farm. I would rather have the gas pipeline then the power lines.
The pipes are deep. Leaks are corrected as soon as they are reported. The gas company has been good to deal with. As far as organic certification, get real. Participation in natural resource exploitation and capitalism does not disqualify land from organic standards. Yet. |
Search landowners and pipelines.
The pipeline company will use eminent domain to put in the pipeline. Your only question will be how much compensation you will be paid. Specify everything you want taken care of in an agreement. You ought to consult with a lawyer to see your options. |
I wouldn't have an issue with a pipeline being installed unless it cut through a wooded area with an unusual micro ecology. QA/QC varies with the owner and the pipeline contractor. That should be obvious from the responses.
All of the pipeline owners are going to be super vigilant to make sure there is no possibility of leaks caused by a construction related incident. Cathodic protection is the norm. Over time the potential still exists. With the number of recent incidents, all pipeline owners know they're on a hot seat. I would make sure the contract specified that top soil was removed first and stockpiled so it could be replaced after the pipe trench was back filled instead of it being mixed with the subsoil. Make sure the contract also specifies the species to be seeded to avoid something being introduced that would be a problem later. |
If in the future you want to sell any of the land for development - even if only one house - you will be restricted as to where you can build because of the pipeline -
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Just
say No and walk. |
It all depends on what your plans are for the property.
If it is strictly to be a hayfield, that pipeline won't bother you once it's installed. In fact, you won't even know that is it there other than possible markers along the road. The chances of this line leaking in your lifetime is almost nil. I wouldn't have ANY problem buying the land - just make sure the current landowner hasn't been paid. What exactly does the addendum say? I can see letting you know ahead of time, but the price and compensation will come later. Just be aware that you won't be able to build anything over top of it. And when the company comes around to have you sign the agreement - make sure you have everything covered - they aren't done with the project until you are happy with the results, and any damage in the future - from them driving over it (if they ever do), you will be compensated for crop damage. |
I would not have a problem at all either. It is a hay field, and the pipe is many feet under.
And besides there are millions of miles of pipelines across the USA and have been there for many years. Another one is not going to hurt a nit in any ecological or property values. |
the pipeline co should be okay to work with. should. iwould not have a problem with the pipeline myself but you may want to talk with the pipeline co rep about any above ground structures that may be placed on row. structures of blow offs, blockgate operators, test station for cathodic protection, and rectifiers. these would be some things I would not want to look at or mow around. if you do get a rectifier it also comes with a 300 foot deep ground bed well. none of this is bad but just ugly.
I've got 27 years natural gas pipeline row /compressor sta experience. most of the time the pipeline rep wants to reach a decision that can work for everyone and keep the project moving forward. |
the pipeline co should be okay to work with. should. iwould not have a problem with the pipeline myself but you may want to talk with the pipeline co rep about any above ground structures that may be placed on row. structures of blow offs, blockgate operators, test station for cathodic protection, and rectifiers. these would be some things I would not want to look at or mow around. if you do get a rectifier it also comes with a 300 foot deep ground bed well. none of this is bad but just ugly.
I've got 27 years natural gas pipeline row /compressor sta experience. most of the time the pipeline rep wants to reach a decision that can work for everyone and keep the project moving forward. oh, I also have about 45 years of hay field experience. |
I have a pipeline that runs on my western border of my property... You'd never know it was there. They had cleaned out years ago to put it in, but looking now, you can't tell... There is a ROW on it, but they never use it... Maybe some day they will need to get in there, but it wouldn't really effect me.
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We have a high pressure gas line through our property, cuts diagonally through it. Never a problem. Once a year they come by and if nothing is planted they mow over the top of it, don't want any trees coming up on top of it. When they put it in they offered us a gas hook up but it was too far away to be useful. I wish I was older and not a kid, I would have taken a hook up and filled tanks and transported them up to the house. I'm sure we could have worked something out. My father saw bubbling if the field once, called them, but it wasn't them, (a lot of small natural gas deposits around, none worth drilling for though.) They were happy we called even if it was a false alarm. They have some device they hook up and run electricity down the pipe, it checks for corrosion. So a pipe line is no problem. Unless you dig it up and break the line. Sprint Long distance did this to the same line down the street, wow to hear gas roaring out of the pipe. closed off all the streets around, wouldn't let us go home, so I went to the next street and drove through the field to my house. We were far enough away. When the line was ruptured, the guy on the bulldozer/back hoe, jumped off while it was moving, the dozer headed for a high tension line, fortunately it hit a stump and stalled and didn't hit the tower. If that gas had caught fire it would have been spectacular, and probably shattered windows in the buildings nearest.
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This is what happened when a pipeline ruptured near Sissonville, WV last Dec. That's I77 in the picture. If a line ruptures and isn't burning, you don't want to operate any vehicle or electrical equipment anywhere close.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Co...380;7;70;0.jpg |
IMHO, nothing to worry about... only thing you can't do on a pipeline ROW is build permanent structures or plant trees. Hay meadow? It'll be better after the line goes in than before (make sure you have addendums added to the lease, saying the land will be returned in the condition you want it. Topsoil put on top.... lime, fertilizer, and replanted in whatever grass you want.
Upside, if you own the land before they put it in, you could make enough to buy a new tractor and all the gear to make hay, or pay off the land. Numbers fluctuate, but ROW payments can be between 20 and 30$ a linear foot (depending on size of line, temp row, and permanent). I have four, or is it five, on my place, and never notice they're there. Was supposed to have gotten a new line in last year, following an existing row, and my payment was going to be around 80K. That would've paid for a lot of new infrastructure. *worked as a landman, for five years* |
I don't want to hijack the thread but I'll tell a quick story.
My son bought a home in upscale neighborhood in Newburgh IN. ALL homes on his street have pools, practically all in a row-you can see looking down the back of his house. Marathon gas has a pipeline behind these houses, not sure how many ft. away. Son builds a pool. Marathon contacted. Marathon guy needs to be there during most of the construction, OKs it ALL. Weeks later Marathon SUES my son, saying they don't have enuf easement in case of emergency. They drug the lawsuit out unbearably long, thinking he would give up &take out the pool, I guess. But DS WON! After many, many days of $7500/day court/lawyer costs. Bad news is, he got NONE of his $$ back even tho he won the suit & the judge actually said that it appeared Marathon went after the family needlessly. Be careful, everyone. |
It reads like your son's tribulation was the result of someone in a corner office deciding to flex some muscle to make a show to impress the locals. Standing up to something like that strengthens the opposition. Marathon's punitive lawsuit might be of interest to a few law firms that would work pro bono just to teach a corporation a lesson.
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pipeline would not bother me,if I was planning on a hay field!!! On a side note,everone bashes power lines-pipelines,but just rember THAT is how everybody gets cheap power and gas in this country.If nowbody allowed that kind of stuff on there property no one could afford to farm or eat or buy products,so be carful what you wish for.:hair
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Any type of easement is a pain. Having said that, we had a gas collection line go across our place from an easement agreed to by a previous owner. We got paid a nominal sum. The important thing is that the company worked with us so that the pipeline went in next to a fence line and underneath the "path" where we drive the tractor/wagons/etc to avoid compacting the field. They also agreed to double ditch so that the topsoil was placed back on top of the clay.
More recently, Chesapeake approached us about an easement for a pipeline. They are such a pain to deal with that our answer was no. Whether or not the company can use eminent domain depends on the type of line going in. Normally, for a collection line they can't use ED. At the other end of the spectrum, they usually can for an interstate transport line. Mike |
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If that was the case I suspect generating plants would be set closer to their customers. The Result? Powerplants would be in the middle of cities, not inflicted on country people! A win! Think that's bad? You know in the middle of the city they would have watchers like Hawks , so they would be cleaner and safer! 2 more wins! The transmission losses would be less , so less power needed and less fuel consumed and less pollution made! 2 more wins! |
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