Scenario - what would you do?

ChristieAcres · #61 08/08/14, 03:02 AM

Since DH has been self-employed since 1999 and I have been commission paid, considered self-employed since 2004. Considering that, I can't wrap my brain around being unemployable as we are diverse in skillset and education. Since I also have a clean record, I can't picture myself a criminal. If we had major health issues, there would be very little choices to make. I'll put some thought into the scenario and post what I think the "fictitious" couple could do...

Figured I'd add, we have had our ups/downs financially like many others. That said, when we recently bought our property, it was like starting over to a degree. We used our savings as a down payment, then we have purchased everything out of pocket. Within (5) years, our property will be paid off. My job is making the income and DH's is building us a log home (out of pocket as we go). We have had to sacrifice to do this. It will be worth it!

DEKE01 · #62 08/08/14, 06:18 AM

As a few others have alluded to, the question seems to be flawed. I can't come up with a situation where I am healthy enough to homestead but can't get a job of any kind. In fact, homesteading is so much hard work, there are lots of office jobs you could get that would be far less taxing on the body.

I assume you are not talking about a post-TEOTWAKI situation were all the rules have changed. In today's world, there is always work. Since I was 13, I was never lacking for work, even if it wasn't always my first choice jobs. And once I got to the point of hiring people, I was almost always looking for another good person to get a job done. There might not be jobs were your hypothetical person is, but there are jobs to be had. Last I heard, Walmart was paying $17 to start in the Dakota areas where oil is booming again. You said your guy is mobile, so go where the work is. Maybe Walmart won't hire your guy because he is a felon, but if labor is that hard to find in that area, someone else give him a chance to prove himself.

Another issue to jumping into homesteading, is that it is work that doesn't pay all that well. And it might not be anywhere near as good as homegrown, but there is cheap food in the grocery store all the time. With his limited finances, he is probably better off putting his time into a min wage job instead of gardening. Or garden in his spare time AFTER his job.

Or get two jobs. My dad worked two full time jobs for several years because that's what he had to do to support a wife and baby. Too many American have bought into the idea that 40 hours is a cap on how much you work each week. Homesteading or owning a small business is going to be lots more time consuming than a 40 hour job.

**clovis** · #63 08/08/14, 09:18 AM

Interesting thread!

If I were broke, desperate and out of work, I'd probably start a small business that took very little capital.

Mowing lawns and getting into the flea market business come to mind.

A used push lawn mower can generally be found for $50, and you are in business. Another $50 buys you the used hand tools you need. Another $50 will get you a box of business cards and a stack of flyers. It is going to take some work getting a client base built. Many of the lawn companies around here won't do small yards because they can't ride it on their fancy Dixie Chopper. Most of them don't do any other lawn work, or rake leaves, so I would start networking with them.

A guy with a truck, a mower, a tiller, a chainsaw, and a snow shovel could make some pretty good money around here with the townsfolk, especially if they were respectful, worked hard, and had reasonable rates.

The other idea is flea marketing or reselling. Most estate auctions will have massive amounts of $2 box lots. 20 box lots at $2 each will cost $40, and generally speaking, decent boxes will net you 10 times your money, on average. Those $2 boxes will be full of $1 items, and you'll get lucky, and find some $50 items too. I got started flea marketing with $1 and $2 box lots, and now ebay and flea market for a living. It IS hard work though, and you have to be in an area to be able to buy, and have a decent area to sell your stuff. This idea isn't going to work in the middle of the desert, where the local town has a population of 9 people, LOL. Most people, though, are to good to mess with $2 box lots, and are too lazy to do that much work.

There are tons and tons of small business ideas that would greatly supplement an income, if you are willing to work them...but most people have no desire to really work, or follow through with the ideas, and think that it is all beneath them.

Bellyman · #64 08/08/14, 09:55 AM

I guess another "flaw" in my initial scenario was that I didn't paint a big enough picture of WHEN.

No one seems to grasp the idea of unemployable but healthy enough to work. Not too many here would remember what it might have been like when the movie, "Grapes of Wrath" was made. Lots of able bodied men and women with very little work. I heard a report of one company recently that wanted to hire something like 1,000 workers. They had over a MILLION applicants.

My scenario should have started out with the setting that the world wasn't in TEOTWAWKI status exactly, but that there just aren't traditional jobs for people with their background and what they can bring to the table. (Even today, 60 year olds don't do so well getting jobs because of their age even though no one will actually say it.)

I was imagining that the US economy has gotten to the point where it is just barely hanging on, if you have a job, you're lucky to keep it and if you don't, there really isn't much you can get. The good jobs have moved overseas and those college educated are scrambling to find the "welcome to walmart" and "would you like fries with that" jobs, which are also very difficult to get. Probably 65% to 70% of people are on government assistance so there is still some money around.

In a way, it could be TEOTWAWKI, only without any serious wars, just a continued downward spiral from where we are today. Maybe what could happen by election time in 2016, I don't know. Maybe what could happen in another 6 to 8 years if another like Obama takes the helm. It wouldn't be pretty. There might not be a civil war. There might not even be huge natural disasters going on. Just the downward momentum dragging us lower and lower.

There is also the possibility of people who think they are well off with their 401ks and retirement funds that could find those funds confiscated by a government that's flailing about for any source of funds it can get it's hands on. And retirement funds are a really big carrot dangling in front of them. I can't help but think it's just a matter of time before the government finds a way to bring those into the federal storehouse and replace them with something they think is "equalizing" to society at large, "spreading the wealth" once again. I know, you think it can't happen. I'm not so sure it can't.

In a way, I might have written some of my own circumstance into the scenario because I'm not particularly "employable". I've been pretty much of an independent sort for most of my life, mostly working for myself rather than other people. I'm pretty contented to live on a lot less of life's luxuries than some people, so that doesn't put me in the camp that's collected a few million $$ for my retirement. I've not made large sums of money over my lifetime to have socked away a lot. I have some, but I'm also seeing that what I had even 10 years ago isn't the same as that same thing today. (The inflation they say we don't have is brutal for some investments.)

Anyway, glad some are enjoying the thread. I particularly appreciate those who have suggested ways to try to make their lives better rather than just tear the 60 year old couple down for not being in a better situation. Not all who are poor are lazy or sick. Things can happen.

DEKE01 · #65 08/08/14, 01:56 PM

Bellyman, thanks for the elaboration, but I still don't buy that this hypothetical person is unemployable. I would have a hard time getting a job flipping burgers because I have a beard, but in your scenario, with a need to provide for a DW and build something for a time when health will genuinely interfere with my ability to work, the beard would go.

OK, it just hit me. Suppose thru a series of really stupid choices in life, your guy looks like our friend below. Now your guy has a REALLY hard time getting almost any job, any where, and lots of folks aren't even going to let him get close enough to mow their lawn. I'm not sure what to suggest for that iggitt.

Scenario - what would you do? - Homesteading Questions

Scenario - what would you do? - Homesteading Questions

ChristieAcres · #66 08/08/14, 02:02 PM

It is what you do when things happen...

We went through a lot when the market crashed, yet we survived, and have recently completely started over.

There is your answer, START OVER. Considering who we are, not some fictitious couple, one would have to assume we have lost an entire machinist/welding shop full of machinery & tools. Same thing for all my equipment and supplies (I have had a licensed nursery). You can take it all away, but you have the SAME people. There are those who don't give up, work as hard as necessary, and overcome adversity. This is a simple fact. Some can't for any number of reasons. The same thing goes for problem solving, resourcefulness, and ingenuity.

If DH was without his shop, machinery, and tools? He would be dead, as that is what it would take. No joke! We had mutually agreed to store his machinist/welding shop in a shipping container. Go see what DH did on my thread, because he claimed he could NOT LIVE without it all, once he thought about it. This guy works nonstop!

For me, anything and everything can be replaced. Stuff is exactly that. Sure, I have some treasures, but if push came to shove, I could fit what is really important in the trunk of my car...

The OP isn't a very logical scenario, due to no consideration given to "family or friends." They would all have to be GONE for those couple to be "alone and destitute" in the world...

For the sake of just posting an idea? Since I have realized I have a real knack for bartering and getting stuff FREE, I will post a few ideas using our skillsets.

So, sink or swim? We both swim!

We would design a Tiny House and then DH would build it on top of a trailer frame. Then, we would need only one vehicle to tow it with. I would do the finish work, as that is my thing.

OR

We would buy a sailboat, remove the motor, and drop the anchor. I knew a guy who lived on one, so frugally it was unreal.

OR

We would build a houseboat on a barge and then take that where we could anchor it for free.

The only part of the Country I would want to be is right here. We might have to work for it, but we would never starve. Edibles galore, fishing, crabbing, shrimping, clams, and oysters... We would just barter for anything we wanted that we could produce for ourselves.

Then, we would start any type of business that could flourish in this fictitious environment. Likely it would be heavily barter based, as $ would be worth little to nothing...

Bellyman · #67 08/08/14, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorichristie

It is what you do ...
OR

We would buy a sailboat, remove the motor, and drop the anchor. I knew a guy who lived on one, so frugally it was unreal.

OR

We would build a houseboat on a barge and then take that where we could anchor it for free.

The only part of the Country I would want to be is right here. We might have to work for it, but we would never starve. Edibles galore, fishing, crabbing, shrimping, clams, and oysters... We would just barter for anything we wanted that we could produce for ourselves.

Then, we would start any type of business that could flourish in this fictitious environment. Likely it would be heavily barter based, as $ would be worth little to nothing...

That's an interesting direction, and one I don't think this thread has gone before, with the idea of living on the water.

You sound like a very resourceful person!

(Oh, and I really appreciate your husband. Having TOOLS!!!!!!, and LOTS of them, are wonderful!!

We have very little in storage but about half of it is tools of one kind or another that I am pretty sure I'm gonna need again someday.)

I guess my scenario is breaking down pretty badly. Mainly, what I was trying to pry out of people was what they'd do TODAY if somehow, they were in dire straits and their previous ways of making money with their jobs didn't work anymore. I've seen several post about how they've made their fortune by pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps and working themselves into what they have today. Ok, that's fine. I have no issue with what they did in the past. I wonder if they could do it again today, and if so, how. This ain't the same world we lived in in 1970 when we could get CDs that paid 14% interest. This ain't the same world as in the 1980s when just about any fool could flip houses and become a millionaire in pretty short order. And I know of several people who were in the aerospace industry that were in their 50s and early 60s when the space shuttle program went "poof" that never have found meaningful employment again.

But anyway, I have appreciated the replies that have suggested some tips towards making a good situation without a whole lot to start with. There will be some who will never understand what it's like to be up in years and not have much to show for the years past. But that's very real for a lot of people. Some of them screwed up bad and have no desire to do anything other than suck on a govt. teat. Some of them had accidents. Some of them had jail time. Some of them lost everything they had trying to save someone they loved. Just because someone has "failed to accumulate", or even lost what they did accumulate, I'm not gonna throw them under the bus, especially when they would like to take their lives in a positive direction. Obviously, I should have thought out my scenario better. Might have had to write a novel to get it all across, though.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

DEKE01 · #68 08/08/14, 04:24 PM

Bellyman, you've gotten some good answers and I have not seen much blame. I think you don't like the answers. If today I lost everything due to my own stupidity or a series of unfortunate life events not of my own making, it still comes down to a "now what" situation. Your man has a life of education and experiences which greatly alter the possibilities. If it were me, I could get a job doing bookkeeping, the next guy may have to work as a laborer in a welding shop until he proves himself enough to take advantage of his welding experience. But if the best job I could get was flipping burgers, that's the job I would get. I would clean myself up, make myself as presentable and businesslike as I could, and I would flip burgers while I figured out my next step to something better.

What I would not do is spend my remaining capital if at all possible. That is seed corn, not meant to be eaten today unless most every other option has been tried. Once I was stable and had things thought thru, a portion of that capital might be spent on tools to start my own business, or a very specifically focused class or license needed to improve my employment prospects.

Not sucking on the gov't teat is very admirable and anyone gutting it out is to be applauded.

ChristieAcres · #69 08/08/14, 04:46 PM

I don't mind sharing that we broke the bank, so to speak, so have essentially started over again a few months ago when we bought our property. Although we will be paying on it for about 5 years, all of our building is being done out of pocket, only as I earn the money. DH has shut down his business as his current job must be. Being resourceful has been a necessity of my life for as long as I can remember...circumstances warranted it. Life has continued to change my perspective...

So, while we have no investments or savings, at the moment, we own our vehicles, as well as everything on our property. This includes an older camper, F250, 1998 VW Jetta TDI, 1988 34' Motorhome, a 21' Glasply w/Cuddy Cabin, an entire machinist/welding shop set up inside DH's 40' high cube shipping container ($3,000K cost including delivery), my 40' Truck Box Refer Unit (my baby was FREE, but cost $927 to deliver), and we have a custom Log Splitter (DH designed/built that). Otherwise, an entire household to move into my Truck Box and DH has more tools, machinery, gadgets, supplies, chainsaws, garden tools, etc... than I could possibly list.

Our main goal is to pay off our property and maintain a nominal amount of savings until that is done. Five years is a goal, but we hope to accomplish that sooner.

Just recently, DH just finished the concrete forms for our first log outbuilding (utility building). He used lumber he already had and bartered for the rest. Some of the rebar he has, but we will have to purchase some. We will reuse windows we already have and also other building supplies (including metal roofing). It won't cost much to build that cabin as DH is using our own trees.

So, if I was do to this all again, and I was younger?

I'd live in a houseboat, a tiny house on a trailer, or a sailboat. Then, I would save almost all my income to purchase a piece of property. At that point, I would do much what we are doing now.

I read a book a few months ago, and the author told his story... He and his wife were 17/18 when they met and formulated their plan. They actually lived in a tent, worked in youth camps, and other jobs. They lived very frugally, only spending only around 10% of what they earned, saving the rest. Within just 3 years, they married, and paid cash for their property. They proceeded to build a beautiful stone & log house mixed construction home that is also heat efficient (solar and passive solar...). So, while still in their twenties, they owned their own home and land without ever attending college. Their friends were still working to save, while they were living their dreams...

While we can all dream big, we can be the biggest barrier to what we actually accomplish in life and which dreams we pursue. It is all about priorities...

ChristieAcres · #70 08/08/14, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEKE01

Bellyman, thanks for the elaboration, but I still don't buy that this hypothetical person is unemployable. I would have a hard time getting a job flipping burgers because I have a beard, but in your scenario, with a need to provide for a DW and build something for a time when health will genuinely interfere with my ability to work, the beard would go.

OK, it just hit me. Suppose thru a series of really stupid choices in life, your guy looks like our friend below. Now your guy has a REALLY hard time getting almost any job, any where, and lots of folks aren't even going to let him get close enough to mow their lawn. I'm not sure what to suggest for that iggitt.

Scenario - what would you do? - Homesteading Questions

One word = MAKEUP!

Seriously though, you made excellent points, but the correct application of a few products will transform the freakish to an acceptable norm.

Bellyman · #71 08/08/14, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEKE01

Bellyman, you've gotten some good answers and I have not seen much blame. I think you don't like the answers. ...

Actually, I am liking the answers!

There are some good ones. Figured if I kept poking, there might be some new ideas surfacing, and a few have.

ChristieAcres · #72 08/09/14, 01:00 AM

I thought of another one...

Buy a motorhome, then lease some commercial land, and move a shipping container onto it. I'd turn that into a walk-up business for ammunition and prep supplies. Oh, how much? Well, we got our motorhome for $4,250, but in a tougher situation it would likely be less to purchase. Say, we spent $2,500. Since I am pretty good at bartering and getting good free stuff, I'd get the truck box for little to free (just got a truck box free...). I'd then do some bartering with the towing company, so the delivery fee would be less. For purchasing the stock and licensing the business, I'd get an investor to go in with me. DH would modify the shipping container, so it would make a great little business. We could use salvaged windows and DH knows how to turn one into a great little functional building. Any materials, we could get used by bartering for them or get them free. Bartering? DH and I have skills we can barter. He can fix just about anything, weld, machine, and is also fix industrial machines, including heavy equipment. It would depend on the economy and circumstances as to which of my skills would be the most useful to barter. I was a licensed care provider for a quadriplegic for almost 3 years, a private cook for a cancer patient, an educational tutor for children, I can teach gardening, and skilled with my hands (excel in fine motor skill work). I have a diverse educational background, which may or may not be useful (same with my BA degree and all my certifications). I have excellent sewing skills, embroidery, calligraphy, and can prepare food in large quantities fairly easily. I have a way with animals, children, and the elderly...probably because I find them easier to love and care for. Since DH and I are well suited to be "caretakers," we would be paid to park our motorhome on properties we would be paid to maintain. If there was any spare time, DH could teach others how to build log cabins, charging for the classes. In return for the use of the land, DH would build a cabin to teach his classes out of, on someone's property (one class a month for a year). Then the land owner could keep the log cabin for his own use.

texican · #73 08/09/14, 09:49 PM

Unemployable and 650/month? what would I want to work for? Spend the 5K on an acre or two of land, live in a tent till I could build a home.... with store bought materials, I can build up to code, for $10/foot. Within a year, I'd have a nice little home, probably a barn or two, and start acquiring livestock, and planting an orchard....

If you have no mortgage, and live frugally, 650 will go a long long ways.... I lived many years on less than 4K, and built a nice homestead in the process.

Learn to scavenge.... got barns full of free building materials... "Restore" sells for a fraction of new, if theres nothing to scrounge...

kilgrosh · #74 08/11/14, 12:03 PM

Here's what I would do:

Go online and search for farmers/ranchers looking for long term help. I would barter my salary/nanny services for room, board, and 1-3 acres of semi-useable land. Drive my truck to wherever that was and start working. While I was working as a farm hand, my wife would babysit/nanny the owners kids and/or charge other workers to watch their kids. This would hopefully cover the basics of shelter and food. Let's say it cost you $1,000 to relocate, so you have $4,000 left.

I would then take $2,500 and purchase 10 weaned piglets, necessary fencing, and extra supplies. The hog pens would be like the ones Joel Salatin describes in his YouTube video. I would go to every local restaurant for food scraps, every grocer for unsellable food, and basically any source of food I could gather to feed the hogs. Fatten the hogs for 6 months, then sell to a butcher or local market. This would generate enough meat for the winter and enough money to make ends meet/build reserves/ease the pain.

Depending on the time of year, I would take another $1,000 and scrounge the materials for several 3 foot high raised beds. At 60, I don't want to bending over all the time. In the gardens I would plant useful pig feed vegetables, like carrots, mangles, potatoes, lettuce, tomatoes, and everything else that can be fed to pigs. Any extra, I would share with the farmer to supplement my room and board.

The $650/month would be used solely for medical expenses, clothes, vehicle maintenance, extra supplies (hygiene), and monthly bills (electric, water, etc.). Any amount left over each month would be put back into savings.

The second year, I would expand my 10 pigs to 20, over the winter build a chicken coop to house 10 egg layers and 15 broilers, and get 10 turkey poulets. At this point, my savings should be back up to $5,000 and I should have another $5,000 in operating expenses. The operating expenses came from excess money at the end of the month from the $650, sale of the hogs, and income from nannying. Take about $4,000 from operating expenses and buy the livestock I mentioned above. Repeat the process.

My goal would be to get to 62 to get Social Security. If that's not an option, then I would focus each year on raising the pigs, chickens, turkeys for sale and expanding the garden to provide for myself. After year three, I should have enough to purchase a few acres outright and start building a house. By year 5, my house is complete and I move there with the wife. Continue my pig, chicken, turkey operation and grow as much vegetables as I can.

Chinkapin · #75 08/11/14, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texican

Unemployable and 650/month? what would I want to work for? ...

Good point texican, These people have no worries. Income, cash! They are already ahead of the game.
A few acres in a area where prices are reasonable. Then put in temporary shelter as you build up assets needed for a more comfortable existence.
A flock of poultry can almost be a cost free supply of food. Here in the south I have a flock that needs no feed even during winter and supply eggs almost year round.

Harry Chickpea · #76 08/11/14, 03:41 PM

As I have been mentioning homesteading not being a particularly viable choice for making money to make ends meet, I thought this article in one of my newsfeeds might be food for thought:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/10/op...mers.html?_r=0

I can see why the guy with the tattoos might no longer be hireable - his hairline looks like it is beginning to recede.

kilgrosh · #77 08/11/14, 04:17 PM

Harry, thanks for that article. It was a good read and informative. I wonder if the small farmers in the article looked at their ROI for each of their crops, be it plant or animal. I would hope to think that if a particular crop was not profitable and another one was, that the farmer would reduce production of the 1st crop in favor of the second.

To me, the Hypotheticals would have to look at their situation as a business. What activities provide the biggest return for the littlest investment? 10 hours of labor/day as a farm hand yields room and board, seems like a good ROI when you are on the bottom rung. Raising livestock that can forage for most of their food and require minor upkeep that when sold can possibly return 125% ROI is good to me. Even that article hints that billionaires are using farming as a business enterprise, though just to reduce taxes, but its still a business to them and nothing more.

I do partially agree with you that homesteading would not be the best option if it was done solely as the only income producing enterprise. I think that if the Hypotheticals were able to supplement their income from some sort of homesteading (raising pigs, chickens, or other high ROI crops) then they could make it. And by make it, I mean survive (food in the belly, roof over the head, and clothes on the back). They would still need to bring in some other source of income or cover a major portion of their subsistence by other means.

Now my ideas might not work at all, and then they are back to entitlement programs, food stamps, and whatever side hustle they can work up. Also, these are just the way I see it.

And yes that dude in the photo has issues...

Bellyman · #78 08/11/14, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texican

Unemployable and 650/month? what would I want to work for? Spend the 5K on an acre or two of land, live in a tent till I could build a home.... with store bought materials, I can build up to code, for $10/foot. Within a year, I'd have a nice little home, probably a barn or two, and start acquiring livestock, and planting an orchard....

If you have no mortgage, and live frugally, 650 will go a long long ways.... I lived many years on less than 4K, and built a nice homestead in the process.

Learn to scavenge.... got barns full of free building materials... "Restore" sells for a fraction of new, if theres nothing to scrounge...

You do have a point!

There are people who live on less than my made up $650/mo. It does tend to cut out some of the "luxuries" but some of those probably aren't all that bad to leave behind.

I think the hardest thing to give up for us, if we had to live on $650/mo would be the traveling we do. The price of gas is just too high for us to spend that much driving. It would be one thing if the drive were to, say, a farmers market where we had a stand and were going to sell something. The second hardest would probably be the cell phone / internet (which are one and the same for us right now). If we actually did settle down somewhere, though, we might decide that there were different, way cheaper, options that would work for us. Right now, it's more expensive because of our traveling for seasonal work and the need for it to work in places where it wouldn't have to if we were settled somewhere.

I do remember a time back in the 1980s when I only made about $850/mo. It wasn't a lot of money back then, either. But I look back on that time and it was one of the happier times of my life. Didn't have a cell phone, of course. Didn't have a tv for a lot of that time. Went to the library a couple times a month and read books. (Interestingly, a lot of them were about homesteading.) Drove old cars but didn't put on a lot of miles. Gardened. Had a flock of chickens. Life wasn't bad.

Bellyman · #79 08/11/14, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

As I have been mentioning homesteading not being a particularly viable choice for making money to make ends meet, I thought this article in one of my newsfeeds might be food for thought:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/10/op...mers.html?_r=0

I can see why the guy with the tattoos might no longer be hireable - his hairline looks like it is beginning to recede.

Interesting article. I don't know where they got their numbers exactly and I don't know how many dissimilar types of farmers got lumped in together.

The article did say that 91% of farmers are not making it. But...

That means that 9% of farmers ARE MAKING IT!! If we eliminated those who are farming the government programs, I suspect those numbers would improve.

I don't know a lot of farmers that farm the more conventional ways. I do know a few small scale farmers that ARE making a living, one of which is farming about 3 acres with no intentions of expanding at all. He's not making $100k a year but he's certainly making enough that taking a job saying, "Welcome to Walmart" would be a pretty big step DOWN. He doesn't have a lot of fancy equipment. He does a lot of work by hand. And he lives in an area that's very cheap to live (rural WV).

There are a number of industries where there are people who do well but most do not. Real estate sales. Insurance sales. Stock brokers. Chefs. Waiters. Car salesmen. It's not just farmers.

If you're gonna be a part of the 91% that fails, there are lots of opportunities out there to fail in a field you like better. Or... maybe you find a field you're good at... even if it's... farming.

Harry Chickpea · #80 08/11/14, 08:46 PM

There are farmers around here that are making it, but they are very canny. One of the things I treasure about the area is the gorgeous row crops these guys grow. Not too much impresses me, but really competent farmers are rock stars in my book.