How to begin without getting discouraged

DragonFlyFarm · #21 07/16/14, 11:58 AM

Tea I would kill for 24 acres! We are in Sonoma County, CA...heart of the wine country. My BF and I purchased 5 acres two years ago...our house was built in 1890 and it needs everything. Foundation, electrical, you name it we need it. We both work full time....after work we come home and work. It's exhausting, but I love it. Last year I had a small garden, this year I doubled the size. Mostly summer and winter squash and tomatoes, a few potatoes. Hopefully next year the garden will be double the size of this years. We have sheep in the field that provide us with wool (I spin) and lamb (yum!) I am working on plans for a large chicken coop/run, I will be raising chickens for meat and eggs. Just take one thing at time and build on it. It's all hard work that's time consuming, you have to love the process because the process never ends

I LOVE reading the posts about the folks with project ADHD....I'm thinking I'm normal!

kilgrosh · #22 07/16/14, 11:58 AM

Tea Mama,
I used to live in the Bay Area and understand your pain of living in an expensive area. My only advice is to do a little bit each year. Don't worry about trying to use the whole 24 acres from the beginning. Start small and grow from there. Here is what I would do with what you have and taking into some general assumptions on where you live (Redding, CA area?):

Year 1:
Put in a small garden, just enough to provide for your family. I am a fan of raised beds, so I would use 8 4x8 raised beds.
Keep having the farmer use your fields and trade for beef
Get your boys to chop, stack, sell cord firewood from your woodlot. They keep half of all sales and you get half for providing the equipment.
Pay down the tractor as soon as possible.
Plant two fruit trees.

Year 2-4:
Same garden. Same farmer. Same firewood. Plant two more trees.

Year 5:
Expand garden to have extras for small sale or trade.
Get a chicken coop and raise a few layers and a few broilers.
Keep the farmer and firewood.
tractor should definitely be paid off by now.
reap your first good harvest from the fruit trees.

Year 6:
Same market garden and orchard.
Expand the chickens to a dozen.
Keep the farmer.
Add some bees to help the orchard.
Sons should be in college, so cancel the firewood
Look into growing some grain or hay in your pastures.

Year 7-Forever:
Expand a little each year. Slowly grow more crops, vegetables, and fruits and sell the excess. Don't over reach more than you can comfortably handle.

Remember to enjoy life and take time for out for fishing the Russian River!

jwal10 · #23 07/16/14, 12:16 PM

Start small, 1 or 2 projects until you get it down. Keep it simple. Most people want, want, want, then think they have to have everything to do it and then never really use what they buy, to its potential. A lot can be done with very little. We extend the seasons instead of having a huge garden, so we can do it by hand. We butcher as we use, small animals that can be used in 2-3 meals. Much cheaper and easier, no big freezer, all the wrapping, canning, time used up in preserving. God made many things in a great package, just needs stored correctly. We have lived most our lives with 1 personal vehicle, alternating and planning for its use. Even when I farmed I had the minimum. It isn't how much you make, it is how much you save, time, energy, money, resources, friendships, relationships. We work together with our neighbors, we all gain something without paying out of savings. Our world is small but rich in resources. We never made big money because our desire was to live light off the land and let mother nature provide. My grandparents and Mom lived in Kansas during the dust bowl and depression. They moved to Oregon in 1953 with little, they never owned land, always rented farms. When they came into the Valley they didn't have much but they could find and preserve a lot of fruit and produce free. They lived off the land and Grandad got a minimum wage job. They bought a house 2 years later and lived a good life. Grandad had to have a lung removed, had to quit working so raised a good garden and fished a lot at the reservoir a mile away. They bought a brand new car in 1956 and traveled within 500 miles. Grandad always said if you starved in Oregon you were too lazy to live....James

Tea_mama · #24 07/16/14, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilgrosh

Tea Mama,
I used to live in the Bay Area and understand your pain of living in an expensive area. My only advice is to do a little bit each year. Don't worry about trying to use the whole 24 acres from the beginning. Start small and grow from there. Here is what I would do with what you have and taking into some general assumptions on where you live (Redding, CA area?):

Year 1:
Put in a small garden, just enough to provide for your family. I am a fan of raised beds, so I would use 8 4x8 raised beds.
Keep having the farmer use your fields and trade for beef
Get your boys to chop, stack, sell cord firewood from your woodlot. They keep half of all sales and you get half for providing the equipment.
Pay down the tractor as soon as possible.
Plant two fruit trees.

Year 2-4:
Same garden. Same farmer. Same firewood. Plant two more trees.

Year 5:
Expand garden to have extras for small sale or trade.
Get a chicken coop and raise a few layers and a few broilers.
Keep the farmer and firewood.
tractor should definitely be paid off by now.
reap your first good harvest from the fruit trees.

Year 6:
Same market garden and orchard.
Expand the chickens to a dozen.
Keep the farmer.
Add some bees to help the orchard.
Sons should be in college, so cancel the firewood
Look into growing some grain or hay in your pastures.

Year 7-Forever:
Expand a little each year. Slowly grow more crops, vegetables, and fruits and sell the excess. Don't over reach more than you can comfortably handle.

Remember to enjoy life and take time for out for fishing the Russian River!

So close! Just outside of Sacramento in the low foothills between Grass Valley and Chico.

Thank you to everyone for the kind words and advice. I'm usually pretty optimistic, however every once in a while I get into one of those "ruts" wondering if dreams are even attainable. Just get kind of down.

kilgrosh, you have some excellent ideas, I love the way you spelled it out. It's funny how something so simple becomes so much clearer when you read it through the eyes of someone else, KWIM?

Chad · #25 07/16/14, 02:25 PM

I thought I would crash my wife's thread here since I am the one that turned her onto this site years ago. See below for a few clarifying/reasons we chose certain things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FarmboyBill

I Think, tho I don't know what all you intended to use a tractor for, BUT, myself, I would have taken out a loan to buy a GOOD used tractor before I paid the money for a new one. Would have been MUCH less, even with the interest on the loan. With 1/2 of the place in woods, your not going to do much farming anyway.
I farm 14 acres, of which 12 is under the plow. I use a 1948 H Farmall, H and a 1934 Case CC Of the 2 I use the H WAY more.

Actually, at least in our area a used tractor (one that doesn't require a total rebuild or constant work) will only save a few thousand dollars in over all financial outlay. Believe me I ran the numbers many times.

We are financed at 0% interest with a 7 year power train warranty and 5 year "bumper to bumper". I was able to finance the implements right along with the tractor (not something you can do if you buy used). Yes, right now half is in woods, but we intend to put the other half to use by thinning it out (this is where the tractor really earns it's keep).

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoePa

One thing people need to consider when they pick a place to live is - the cost of living, home prices, taxes .etc - there are places that take too much of your money and you get nothing back - sure there are places with jobs that give you good salaries but then all of the costs take it right away from you and you would be better off if you lived in a place where things are cheaper and you can enjoy life - just because the kids are in school or whatever shouldn't deter you from moving - I had 5 kids that were in school and had to move a number of times - they got along fine -

Sometimes you don't choose where you live, where you live chooses you. We are both California natives, our entire families are both from and in this general area and we are both very family oriented people. I still have the same best friend that I had in pre-school. My wife still sees many of her childhood friends regularly. As my wife said, we have both tried it in other places, but this is home.

Honestly, I have to respectfully disagree with you about moving kids especially at certain ages. I think it can and often is VERY harmful to the child. I have been on both sides of this coin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO_cows

The simple life ain't so simple, is it??

Teenagers, and a baby, and a job, and a homestead? No wonder you feel overwhelmed, you are! Just keep plugging along as best you can. I hope those teens are helping you too, they are old enough to take on responsibility and it is good for them to have it.

Just keep slashing your budget wherever you can to get out of debt. Once you get that monkey off your back, you will have a lot more options. You should have been able to get a used tractor financed, it's a shame you didn't find that out. Shame on the dealership who sold you a new one instead of a trade in!

Funny you say the simple life ain't so simple. My version of this was "boy this simple life sure is complicated"

See above about the tractor. Also we did look into getting a loan for a used tractor, the problem was that they would only loan on a tractor that was 5 years old or newer and the interest rate was very high. Anything older than 5 years would have to be a personal loan which would have been in the 17% interest rate range.

I've tried it with old tractors. I LOVE International's in fact that is why we named our farm the Red Tractor Ranch, but I would need several old tractors to do what my one new one can. Oh, and guess what??? Every time I turn the key, it starts RIGHT UP!

Thank you all for your input, my wife and I have shared a certain "dream" for as long as we've been together. Allot of our trouble come from learning that a VERSION of the dream is still better than none of the dream.

kilgrosh · #26 07/16/14, 02:53 PM

I'm glad I was helpful. Keep on dreaming and best of luck!

crazyfarm · #27 07/16/14, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad

I thought I would crash my wife's thread here since I am the one that turned her onto this site years ago. See below for a few clarifying/reasons we chose certain things.

Actually, at least in our area a used tractor (one that doesn't require a total rebuild or constant work) will only save a few thousand dollars in over all financial outlay. Believe me I ran the numbers many times.

We are financed at 0% interest with a 7 year power train warranty and 5 year "bumper to bumper". I was able to finance the implements right along with the tractor (not something you can do if you buy used). Yes, right now half is in woods, but we intend to put the other half to use by thinning it out (this is where the tractor really earns it's keep).

Sometimes you don't choose where you live, where you live chooses you. We are both California natives, our entire families are both from and in this general area and we are both very family oriented people. I still have the same best friend that I had in pre-school. My wife still sees many of her childhood friends regularly. As my wife said, we have both tried it in other places, but this is home.

Honestly, I have to respectfully disagree with you about moving kids especially at certain ages. I think it can and often is VERY harmful to the child. I have been on both sides of this coin.

Funny you say the simple life ain't so simple. My version of this was "boy this simple life sure is complicated"

See above about the tractor. Also we did look into getting a loan for a used tractor, the problem was that they would only loan on a tractor that was 5 years old or newer and the interest rate was very high. Anything older than 5 years would have to be a personal loan which would have been in the 17% interest rate range.

I've tried it with old tractors. I LOVE International's in fact that is why we named our farm the Red Tractor Ranch, but I would need several old tractors to do what my one new one can. Oh, and guess what??? Every time I turn the key, it starts RIGHT UP!

Thank you all for your input, my wife and I have shared a certain "dream" for as long as we've been together. Allot of our trouble come from learning that a VERSION of the dream is still better than none of the dream.

We bought a new tractor, financed 0%, with implements. Our tractor has a cab. Not something we could find on the older models in our price range. My DH swears a cab is neccessary for his very survival. I think he just wanted the radio. :P

What we didn't realize, and many people don't, is that with these 0% loans they just tack the interest on upfront to the loan and call it the price of the tractor.

Dixie Bee Acres · #28 07/16/14, 03:01 PM

Tea and Chad, you guys are on the right path, just keep plugging along. Pick one project, when that project becomes second nature, pick another, and so on.
I have been right where you are now, starting out, we all have. In a sense, im still starting out.
When we started, my wife and I both worked outside the home. We made about the same hourly wage, but she had far better insurance than I, and her company is far more stable than the one I worked for.
We tried doing everything we dreamed of, all at once. It was killing us.
Failed gardens due to lack of time, broulers not being processed on schedule, having to buy firewood to suppliment what I didn't have time to cut, etc, etc.
The company I worked for started going down and I was reduced from 5 to 6 days a week down to 3 days a week. Then other issues at work started piling up and I thought about seeking a different job.
Wife convinced me to walk away from that job and stay home.

I was ridiculed by many, and still am at times over leaving the work world and staying home, especially since now my wife is the sole bread winner.
But, things started happening. I was able to expand our gardens, raise more broilers, now have pigs as well. I now have time to cut more firewood. I do a lot of canning and freezing, and now butcher deer rather than taking them to a slaughter house.
When i was working full time, we spent over $200 a week in groceries, now we barely spend that a month. Our kids never have to come home from school to an empty house, and since i am home and can tend to it, wood heat is now our primary heat source rather than secondary.
From a financial stand point, here is one example: if i produce and preserve $10,000 worth of food this year, it saves more than that. Working outside the home I would have to earn say, $13,000 gross to pay $3,000 in income taxes to have $10,000 left to buy groceries. Also wear and tear and fuel in my truck driving to and from work, several thousand there per year.
Plus cutting firewood to heat the house verses several hundred per month on lp gas in winter time.
The point is, it will be well worth it, once you get "there", and getting there can and will be trying, frustrating, tiring, etc. But once you start to realize your dreams, all of the blood, sweat, blisters, frustrations and lack of sleep will be worth it.

Pace yourselves, know your limits, and build your limits, but don't try exceeding them.
You are on the right path, and from what you have stated here, I have no doubt you will realize your dreams. Good luck to you.

COWS · #29 07/16/14, 03:05 PM

We didn't have a property loan but we built a nice house. Payments weren't bad but we drove old cars for a long time. Big relief when it was paid off.

If I were you I would have as large a garden as possible. Gardens save on food expenses and with children at home food is a major expense. I don't know what your water situation is with the drought. You'll know it's a serious drought when they stop watering the golf courses, LOL.

Regarding Dragon Fly Farm in Sonoma, we took tour to the Bay area and went up to the wine country. The only area I could see living in IF I had the money was the Sonoma area. Liked the town and the area.

COWS

Tea_mama · #30 07/16/14, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixie Bee Acres

We tried doing everything we dreamed of, all at once. It was killing us.
Failed gardens due to lack of time, broulers not being processed on schedule, having to buy firewood to suppliment what I didn't have time to cut, etc, etc.

^^^That in a nutshell is what is so discouraging. I have these dreams of a beautiful garden abundantly full of produce but then we find we are stretched too thin. Moderation needs to be my mantra. As jwal10 said, a lot can be done with just a little.

**Terri** · #31 07/16/14, 04:12 PM

So, you have been there 2 years and you are providing yourselves beef and some of your vegetables. That is not bad at all!

Continue working with your garden: you will get better at it. You will have a better idea of what produces well on your land and what you like to eat.

I find it easier to break things down as "projects" instead of considering it to be homesteading. I have the fruit tree project, the garden project, the greenhouse project, the bee project, the berry project, the chicken project, and the Christmas tree project. Some worked well and some did not.

The thing is, even if I provided us with everything we eat it would only be worth $400 a month, as that is what I spend on groceries. We will still need the same amount of gasoline, shoes, school supplies, etc.

One thing I have done that saves us a lot is to plan for easy-fix meals for those busy days. I will put, for example, a frozen roast beef in the oven and set the timer and come home to a ready dinner. This cuts down on the fast food on the way home. To go with it, some sliced vegetables (often from my garden) can be done in minutes. Right now I have cucumbers and bell peppers, and they go down well. And, baked potatos from the microwave or bread from the bread machine are also very fast to make.

You are doing fine! And, it sounds like you are almost done with some major schooling! Congratulation! You will have more time within a year, it sounds like.

Homesteading is a flexible term. I have realized that I LIKE fresh vegetables when there is snow on the ground, and so I will not produce all of our own food. (besides I do not have enough room for beef)So I do other things. Right now I am working on growing sweet corn in a low-labor was, as I am handicapped and I have no tractor. So, I am planting pinches of corn seeds 5 feet apart on a grid pattern, growing clover around it to provide some of the needed nitrogen, and mowing around the corn with a riding mower (which is why the grid pattern. I should be able to get close to the clumps of of corn)

Everybody has their own definition of homesteading: feel free to create your own! I might not produce everything we eat, but I did just freeze a lot of corn and there are 20-odd large cucumbers waiting for me to get to them. 5 more large cucumbers are soaking in brine for pickles. I might just give away the cucumbers as there are more that will need to be picked soon. This is the kind of decisions I LIKE to make! LOL!

**Terri** · #32 07/16/14, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tea_mama

^^^That in a nutshell is what is so discouraging. I have these dreams of a beautiful garden abundantly full of produce but then we find we are stretched too thin. Moderation needs to be my mantra. As jwal10 said, a lot can be done with just a little.

Some of us are very interested in low-labor gardening. You might try some of what we are doing.

Have you read about Ruth Stout? About the lasagna gardens? (They are both basically the same basic idea: lay down heavy mulch to prevent weeds and plant and pick and that is all).

Tea_mama · #33 07/16/14, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terri

Some of us are very interested in low-labor gardening. You might try some of what we are doing.

Have you read about Ruth Stout? About the lasagna gardens? (They are both basically the same basic idea: lay down heavy mulch to prevent weeds and plant and pick and that is all).

I saw the term "lasagna gardening" in another thread and had no idea what it meant, assuming it had to do with layers. I will look up Ruth Stout - thanks for the tip!

**highlands** · #34 07/16/14, 08:00 PM

"How to begin without getting discouraged"

Baby steps.

Learn to crawl before attempting walking or running.

Take small bites and chew your food completely before swallowing.

Plant some perennials each year.

Enjoy the journey. It is the reward.

am1too · #35 07/16/14, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyfarm

I'm not in CA, I'm in WY. Cost of living difference is extreme. However both my DH and I work out of the home. We have 2 toddlers as well. We've been at our house for 6 years and if you saw how many of our 40 acres we actually use you'd shake your head. We've tried things. We've had a calf. I've tried horses. I try gardening every year but boy I suck at that. We've been successful at poultry. I just planted an orchard. So 6 years and we use 5 acres and of that 2 of them are the house and kid yard. lol

So I guess I'd say set a goal per year and save toward it. Right now we are saving to add an apiary this spring. I have to buy all the supplies and I'd like to attend training classes. Having 2 kids as young as ours and working full time is a challenge. I do a lot with them strapped to my back or walking beside me "helping". Most of it gets done when they are asleep. The list is endless too!

As for cooking I cook all our dinners and lunches while we are at work. I plan it so that I have left overs from dinners I can container for lunch for a few days. I've done it for years. If you'd like meal planning help I can help there. I also shop on an extreme budget, once a month (except for staples) and plan my meals a month in advance.

The trees were purchased by combining 2 of our "sink funds" which is Dave Ramsey financial planning. We only became debt free a few years ago and it's changed everything. Before we never had money, now I can buy $400 worth of trees without my DH having a heart attack. So do try to learn to make your money work for you. You can do it!

Its amazing what one can do when they're debt free.

am1too · #36 07/16/14, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tea_mama

Glad to see that I'm not the only one - or maybe sad that others are as discouraged as me. I was an avid meal planner up until the baby was born. I even prepped over 60 meals in the freezer that we have just recently finished up. However, I love looking at other meal planning ideas, I get tired of our food! Plus, I need to really work on keeping it to a tight budget. With two teenage boys, you can imagine that I can't cut it too much.

That's a great idea about the free stuff. I need to be better at that.

I guess a lot of my frustration stems from the concept that I have to kill myself at work then get home and do another full-time job of maintaining the property and yet an additional full time job taking care of the kids/meals/cleaning/etc. There simply aren't enough hours in the day I guess.

People do it with so much less than we have (property wise). We have had chickens and loved them, we have a small garden, I can/preserve food, our neighbor runs cattle in our pasture and in exchange we get a free beef out of it....I feel like we are doing the right things, I just can't figure out how to make it all work. Or maybe there is some sort of "plunge" we have to take. Just don't know how to do it.

Do what you can and let the rest go.

am1too · #37 07/16/14, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfuhrer

LIST-MANIA!!!!

Lists, lists and more lists.

We are stuck in town, in an area with no agriculture, working four jobs between us, starting a business, raising a baby, and paying down a mountain of debt. The only thing keeping me from throwing my hands up and walking away from the dream is my lists.

Lists of what animals we want, lists of what equipment we want, lists of what we need to learn about, lists of ideal property features, lists ordered by cost or infrastructure priority.

By the time we are in a financial position to buy a piece of property and start homesteading we should have a notebook that will step-by-step walk us through our building process.

The dream keeps us all alive and active.

jwal10 · #38 07/17/14, 10:09 AM

You can't have simple and easy or easy and simple until you are satisfied with what you do have. My Brother always said " You don't want much". You are right" "I just want what I need". So I got rid of most of it. When you don't need much, it is easy. Most people are slaves to what they think they need. I need food water and a dry place to live. Yes live, I just live. Simple, rewarding and thankful. Simple and easy....OR is it lazy....James

Dixie Bee Acres · #39 07/17/14, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwal10

You can't have simple and easy or easy and simple until you are satisfied with what you do have. My Brother always said " You don't want much". You are right" "I just want what I need". So I got rid of most of it. When you don't need much, it is easy. Most people are slaves to what they think they need. I need food water and a dry place to live. Yes live, I just live. Simple, rewarding and thankful. Simple and easy....OR is it lazy....James

Amen!
To twist around an old expression, the key to contentment is being able to, " don't do something, just stand there"

Simplify your wants, prioritize your desires, remove your clutter, take care of your needs, after all of that, you have plenty of time to stand up, look around, breathe deep, then set down in a comfy chair with a glass of sweet tea and be happy.

Wulfespirit · #40 07/18/14, 02:19 PM

You and your hubby have full time jobs and three kids to raise - your frustration isn't surprising but at the same time you should expect to make very slow progress at this point in your life. I can definitely relate as I'm in a similar situation.

If it's not an option to have one person stay at home to push the homestead projects then you have to be realistic about what you can and want to achieve. Try and stick to goals that can be implemented incrementally and come with lower maintenance.

No idea if you've ever explored permaculture concepts or not but a permaculture food forest might be a good project that (while being planned up front) can be implemented in pieces and, if done correctly, doesn't come with a lot of need for inputs (and you and your husbands time are inputs).

Annual gardens on their other hand tend to come with more maintenance (weeding, watering, thinning, etc). If annual veggies are high on your must have list, try a hugelkulture bed as it minimizes the need for irrigation and fertilizing (at least the year after its built).

Keep projects you're working on very close to your house. Much easier, then, to put in 5 spare mins into it here and there if its right outside the door.

Celebrate what you have accomplished rather than dwell on the list of things you want to accomplish. Every inch is progress.

I guess I'm saying accept the limitations of your time constraints at the moment but look for ways to push ahead within those constraints and be satisfied for that. As you have more time to move forward, adjust your plans then. Don't be frustrated - you can't do it all - nobody can.

___________
Homesteading it up permaculture style....