Removing invasive vines ???

The remaining vines will break up over a period of a few years and go away. I wouldn't worry about them.

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Thanks highlands!

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If it's fox grape, it's not hurting anything. It's an important food source for birds.

Here's what Dr. Scott Shalaway wrote in his column. recently. This all came about because his wife wanted a chainsaw.

http://www.wvgazette.com/article/201...GZ01/140539964

They have brought down many mature healthy trees here, and they are smothering other valuable food and shelter plants. I dont mind them growing in some areas, but they make a mess of any forested area that you want to keep uncluttered.
I remove the larger ones that are weighing down the trees. I cut them off at the ground and pull them down with the tractor or just let them hang until they dry out and fall. The roots will put off new shoots and the increased light on the ground will allow old seeds to germinate. I cleared all the vines from about a half acre this spring, and now I have hundreds of new grape sprouts coming up.

Can concentrated burning destroy the main roots? I was thinking that using a weed torch might work and be easier than instead of trying to pull the roots. Again, I'm not able to use a herbicide because of the proximity to my neighbors property.

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Be persistent in cutting down to the ground level and eventually it will have nothing left and die. It needs green growth to store up energy via photosynthesis but uses energy from the roots when it sends up new shoots. This works for any green producing plant or tree.

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If you read the article by Dr. Shalaway, he specifically says they are not damaging the trees. While Shalaway did not get into the symbiosis between the grape vines and the trees I wouldn't be surprised if it was a mutually beneficial arrangement. There's an interaction in the soil between fungi, roots, bacteria and higher orders that comprises a mostly unseen and still largely unknown world.

It's like our bodies. We tend to think of bacteria as harmful. Instead much of the bacterial life within us is beneficial. Nature at its best is wild and woolly. I'm dealing with an individual now that's believes clean and neat is best. So far they've screwed up two wells and set the stage for heavy rains to flood the pole barn. He had a dozer in to work over a road to bring in a double wide. He decided to have the operator clear some brush. I still hear his mower smack into the roots that the dozer unearthed. Along with that, the operator spaghettied the cleared material and inadvertently blocked two access ways through the woods. The farm was originally set up for prepping. They've destroyed much of that through ignorance.

I did read the article. You can get your forestry advice from Dr Shalaway or some other blogger, I'll get mine from the County Service Forester who visited my property.

Whatever is hanging in the trees will eventually dry up and fall away, though it can take a long time. Try to cut high so new sprouts can't use the upper stuff to climb up. If tree branches you can reach are being girdled, try to sever the vine, but don't pull away or cut into the branch bark. Doing so will only damage the tree. Cut grape vine close to the ground. If there are thick vines at ground-level, dig out as much as you can, and follow the runners, pulling or digging those, too. Keep doing this faithfully a couple times a year for about 5 or 6, and you'll be more or less in control. Same treatment for Virginia creeper...

There are foresters and there are foresters. An example was the state forester that looked at one parcel and told the resident that there wasn't much there worth cutting. Give it twenty or so years. That jives somewhat with the previous survey. The forester in that instance had decades of experience and was able to point out where the property had been damaged by grazing probably fifty or more years ago. He didn't see much there of commercial value either. What he did see that the state forester did not was one area that due to location had not been grazed. It was already an herb garden of sorts. He also pointed out some other plants with commercial value if encouraged.

Much of the remaining habitat would be lost though logging that area. The point here is to look at the ecology of the landscape and not simply, it doesn't look good so I'm going to clean it out or what will a logger give me for the timber? In each case the ecology may be damaged to an extent it will take many decades to recover or in t he case of severe top soil loss such as in this county, you're looking at a far longer period of time.

Even the experts are so because in many cases they lack the general knowledge and expertise outside their specific field that would enable the landowner to make a more informed decision. Just like the collapse in the honey bee population, song birds are also in decline. The grapes in the upper regions sustain them during a time of need. The Shalawy article touched on the vast quantity of insects the same birds consume.

Adopting a bull in the china shop land management style may fit with a sense of orderliness while playing havoc with the ecology. Do one thing and the effects means you'll wonder why so many bugs are bothering you later.

For reference these are Shalaway's academic credentials: B.S. in entomology from the University of Delaware, an M.S. in biology from Northern Arizona University, and a Ph.D. in wildlife ecology from Michigan State University.

Likewise I'd take the advice of the forester that regularly planted ginseng and practiced selective cutting to release high value trees over a state extension forester that saw only potential board feet everywhere he looked.

Shalaway's claim that wild grapes don't harm trees is just plain wrong, and the idea that they improve commercial timber value is absurd. The vines can kill mature trees and prevent regeneration.

Here are just a few supporting papers I found on Google. There are many more.
http://www.in.gov/dnr/forestry/files/grapevines.pdf

http://extension.psu.edu/natural-res...cts/wild-grape

This is not just about timber value. I have zero concern about the commercial timber value of my land. I'm developing a forest conservation plan for my land which includes many objectives including privacy, seclusion, and wildlife habitat. Having vines overtake trees does not fit any of my objectives, and I challenge you to find a forester besides the one mentioned in Shalaway's article who thinks it's a good thing.

There's been no mention of improving the value of the timber. In light of your desire to develop a conservation plan, I'd contact Dr. Shalaway directly. Email him and ask why his advice differs from the other information you've found. Something is amiss. Perhaps he places more value on providing habitat for song birds and he understands but places a lower value on the detriment to the trees supporting the grape vines.

You have an opportunity to challenge a public newspaper column and get a more detailed response from the author in light of conflicting information. Go for it. It may come down to song birds vs trees and Shalaway is simply biased towards song birds at the expense of trees. Once that is verified or not, you'll have better information. He should defend his statements in light of what you found.

https://sites.google.com/site/scottshalaway/

It was actually stated in the Shalaway article that you linked.
Shalaway: "He also added that grapevines can increase the commercial value of tall trees. “When grapevines climb tall trees they sometimes prune side branches and leave behind longer, straighter, more valuable logs,” he explained."

The great thing about the forester I'm working with is that he does not try to persuade a land owner based on his own agenda. He asks what I want from my land and provides information on how to achieve my goals. I showed him my wild Ginseng and he gave me a brochure about good harvesting practices. He looked at each section of land and explained the different possibilities and what would need to be done. He explained how one particular section would never produce valuable timber unless it's cut heavily to allow the hardwoods to regenerate, but if left alone it could be a good source of maple and birch syrup. I'd like to think that all of the PA state foresters offer the same unbiased guidance, but I'm sure there are exceptions.

If I get a chance I'll post some pictures of one of my wild grape jungles. They sprung up under the utility wires along the driveway. They have completely killed several medium size trees, many Elderberry, Nannyberry and Black Haw Viburnum, Spicebush, Black Raspberries, Blackberries, and whatever else may have been there. Every one of those smothered plants provides food and/or shelter for wildlife, and more importantly, diversity.

I just realized that there were quite a few replies since I last looked at this thread ... interesting info. I do believe that the vines will kill trees because I have seen it happen on our land. But knowing that it is a vine and not kudzu, I am thinking about just cutting it to keep it from overrunning the trees vs. completely killing it. One day, when we can afford it, we will fence the hill sides and put goats there but that is not in any near future. I think that until then we can probably keep up with it.

If we cannot keep them under control, it sounds like tardon may be the way to go to kill the root/stump. Thanks for the input.