Would you use an invasive species?

The big difference is that the people who were promoting it back then didn't know any better at the time. Even the experts couldn't foresee the negative effects that it would have. Now time has passed, people have learned from their mistakes and are trying to educate others, and yet somehow you know better. Just because you don't see a problem doesn't mean a problem doesn't exist.
I believe you should be able to plant anything you want on your land, but you should also be considerate of how it affects the ecosystem and other people's property.

I see you took the part about the size and diversity of my state out of the part you quoted. Leaving that in would make your attack on me much more difficult since I recognize that in parts of my state it is a problem. It wouldn't be labeled if it weren't. As I said, big state, very diverse. Not sure if I will plant it or not. Still seeking opinions and knowledge. You're attack on my intelligence certainly doesn't encourage me to see your side though.

I took out the parts that I didn't feel were relevant. If you think it was for any other reason you are just over thinking it. It was not my intention to attack your intelligence. I think you knew the answer before you asked the question, you are just hoping for a different answer.

I've been interested in the feedback. Since it is all geared toward no I've argued a bit for the yes. I've answered questions and given my personal knowledge on it. Not much more.

If trees are so hard to grow on your property, why are you trying to grow them? Are you in the great plains area? Is your land supposed to be grassland? If you need a nitrogen fixer there are lots to choose from that aren't invasive and don't have thorns. I have locust on my property and I'm trying to get rid of it! Remember, the problem is the solution.

If you just HAVE to have trees pick one that:
grows in the zone you live in
is not invasive
likes your soil type (clay or sand etc.)
is not prone to wind damage- http://www.michigan.gov/documents/IC...g_139988_7.pdf

Then stake the tree well, set up an irrigation system, surround the tree with weed block and/or wood chips, wrap the trunk with tree wrap paper and surround the tree with a fence of half inch welded wire. Then fertilize.

http://gardening.yardener.com/Protec...-Planted-Trees

If that doesn't work, give up and plant grass.

I'm trying to grow them because my land is dead and trees help bring back life. My tree line is the healthiest part of my entire property! We live on former wheat fields. It's been farmed to death! We could till and plant grass but I'm not sure how that would grow. Perhaps if I can't get any trees going that will be the only option.

I think I'll try to grow various trees, do all I can, and see what happens. At this time I will not plant RO. I wasn't aware the thorns were that bad so people's comments on the thorns have me rethinking it.

Do you have any idea what your property was before it was wheat fields? If it was originally trees then trees ought to do well there. Where I live the farms were carved out of forest land and as soon as a field goes fallow bushes and trees start springing up. If there aren't any trees in your area at all then grasslands may be what you need to look at. I would see if you have a local conservation group or native plant group that can help you with reestablishing your farm to what was originally there. That is what will thrive in the long run.

We have been moving towards permaculture ourselves and for us that means letting the grass we have to fight tooth and nail to keep going here die and letting our pasture go back to woods. It also meant changing up our animals from cows to goats and hair sheep. I think in the long run it will be well worth it though to work with nature rather than against it.

One other thought when you say the tree line is the healthiest part is it possible that is because you have lost topsoil and the trees help keep it from eroding and actually collect it? If so I would look at native grasses and some livestock that can manure it.

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"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me." C S Lewis

I suppose somewhere someone is planning to raise rats, because they are cute and dogs are just too much work......

Don't imagine their neighbors are all too happy.

But hey, rats are easy, so go ahead and raise those. After all one or two are kinda cute.

And, what could go wrong?

The govt keeps introducing non-native stuff over and over and over with the best of intentions, and that has worked out so well hasn't it?

Lets all plant kudus, multi floral rose, Canadian thistle, bamboo, and so on in as many places as we can.

Because, you know, those are easy to grow, and that's the main issue isn't it?

(Yes, I can be pretty sarcastic but meant in a bit of a fun way, not trying to bash anyone. This does just seem like a really dumb idea -along with past examples - in case that part didnt come through....)

Paul

I would never knowingly plant any invasive species. If there's a chance it will grow well on your property then it has the same chance of growing well on other territory outside of your own property. There is no way you can stop the pollen and seeds from being spread by wind and birds to surrounding areas.

Is your land flat, sloped or hilly? If you could have any type of tree, what would you plant? Have you thought about putting in water retaining swales? Have you taken a permaculture class or taught yourself about permaculture?

On my property, as the Swales and pastures are being established and baby trees planted, I will be using these plants to fix nitrogen, slow down and reduce run off and erosion, shade the soil and buffer the baby trees from wind. They are also pretty.

Austrian Winter Peas
Black Eyed Peas
Siberian Pea Shrub
Pinto Beans
Chickory
Lupines- White, Blue & Yellow
Blue Bonnet
Winter Rye
Buckwheat
Clover- Red, White, Yellow
Purple Prairie Clover
Lead Plant

Mostly flat with 3 small hills but all of them are on the corners of our property and flatten out on the neighbors land and not ours. lol

If I could plant whatever I wanted I'd plant everything. Big trees, little trees, fruit trees, nut trees, flowering, pine, etc.

In the process of building my swales. I work full time and have 2 toddlers so I use what time I have. Slow going.

I'm internet taught permaculture. lol

I've bought lots of cover plant seeds to put on my swales so I'm working on it!! Love trees though, want lots!

I imagine it was miles and miles of grass. Unplanted areas here are nothing but grass unless you're in the mountains. Maybe a sporadic and stubborn bush here and there. Pretty much it. But it's been farmed as long as anyone I know remembers,

Totally suffering from erosion. We've had flooding rains that wash out everything. So I'd love to get stuff going for that.

That's not really true, it doesn't take much brain power to realize something that is eaten by birds will spread. A lot of this is a game. A lot of the most invasive plants were promoted and planted by the government by millions, so a lot of money was used for that, now they are allocating a lot of money to fight it, rinse and repeat with a million other things they do. By using cars, computers and anything else of modern society makes all the invasive plants seem pretty benign to the overall environment. Most pre-white habitat is wiped out where I am, no the sky did not fall, I am still alive, the world lives on.

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Fast Growing Trees For Sale
Photoblog

Back when one of the catalogs was calling it a tree for birds my sweet wife planted several of them years ago. We are still trying to get rid of them.

Is that the same thing we call Russian Thistle here?
I hate that stuff.
Pretty purple flowers and all.

Actually a number of people already "farm" rats and mice, for lab stock and snake/pet food. Otherwise you have a point.

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The internet - fueling paranoia and misinformation since 1873.

Russian Olives are. The. Devil!

I swear the eleventh circle of hell is propagated with Russian Olive trees.

If you don't know much about them I suggest you learn as much as you can before you plant them. They are a weed, they grow fast, they suck up water, they spread not only through seed distribution but through suckers sent out by the established plant (meaning just because you plant it on your property doesn't mean it is going to stay there. And if you plant and the tree sends up suckers on neighboring public land you could be looking at fines).

When my mom bought her ten acres thirty years ago there were three young Russian Olives on the place. My mom knew nothing about them and so didn't keep them under control. Seemingly overnight she lost two thirds of the pasture to the trees and with that came a loss of grass due to there being no water as well as a plague of abscesses and lameness in the animals from the thorns. They are also perfect daytime habitat for mosquitoes. By her calculations Mom has spent the equivalent of nearly five years working full time to get them under control. Even now she has to be vigilant on an almost weekly basis to keep the stand on the neighbors place from spreading back onto hers. She offered to cut and burn his down at her own expense but the neighbor lady thinks they are pretty and won't hear of getting rid of them. :roll eyes:

Don't do it! No good can come from the active propagation of an invasive species. I know being in Wyoming it can be tempting to grow something you know will get a quick foothold and is hardy, but Russian Olives are not the answer.

Got my curiosity up. I thinks someone above referred to black locust as an invasive species, so I looked it up. It is a native tree,originally found in the south central mountains as far North as PA. It has been planted in other areas, including Europe. France has enough plantings of it that a honey crop with a dictinctive taste is obtained from it. There is a burrowing insect pest which keeps it from reaching large lumber making size, even though I have a few boards. The seed pods are toxic to horses. I've never seen enough pods produced to cause problems. I don't think cows bother with them.

Honey locust has huge numbers of thorns and long seed pods. Animals like the pods, which older people have use to make locust beer. I have no idea what it tastes like.
The literature claims the wood makes good decay resistant fence posts, but I have never been impressed with its decay resistance.

Honey locust spreads energetically by the seeds. Black locust spreads bt seed and by the long surface roots putting up new sprouts. They are hard to get rid of, so if an invasive species is defined by spreading in areas where you don't want them, I guess locust fits the bill. They will not crowed out other trees, and I give locust no chance of surviving long term in a pine or hardwood forest.

I did look up the Russian and Autum olive. Can anyone tell me what the wood from either looks like? Is it hard enough for woodworking? Is it decay resistant?

COWS

I am not knocking you so please don't take this that way. But it appears to me that you are trying to plant things that are completely wrong for your area. If you are really wanting trees and all of that wouldn't it be better to live somewhere trees are native? If you are deep plains I would stick to plains type plants.

You are basically me in the exact opposite area. I wanted pasture in a forest area and finally gave up and am letting it go back to what it is because it was breaking my back and my pocketbook. You want trees where trees don't grow. You will throw a lot of blood, sweat and tears down that hole. :/

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"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me." C S Lewis

Honestly probably never moving. We have all of our family here so we're stuck. Best to make the best of it.