Question for you solar guru's

I'm also typing on a solar-powered computer. Guess no one told it that solar electric doesn't work

Solar isn't cheap, at least compared to grid power. But it's cheaper than it's ever been. And it's a heck of a lot cheaper than running a generator, which is what I was doing before I got my solar electric system up and running (I'm off grid, no possibility of grid power where I am).

It also takes quite a bit of research and mistake-making to get things set up right if you're building an off-grid system from scratch. But once it's set up, solar electric works just fine.

I wonder if the HF kits have done more harm or good to solar. On the one hand, they give folks a taste of what solar electric is all about. On the other, the poor functionality of these kits may turn folks off and make them think "solar doesn't work."

For $180 or whatever these kits go for, you can build a 100W system (monocrystalline panel vs. the HF's cheap thin film) with a proper charge controller. Takes a bit more work to set up---wiring, building a mount, etc.---but over twice the capacity, better functionality, and a much longer lifespan.

Or not......

Last year I not only had zero electric bill, they paid me $1100 for the excess I put back to the grid.

And we run a homestead, have 4 freezers (two upright, two chest), AC in the house, (do heat with wood), I run a large wood working shop ( with LOTS of hp ) as I want, and there is a 4'-1/2hp fan in the greenhouse that runs 12hrs/day in this warm weather.





There IS a scale of economy with solar.....you don't get it with smaller installations, it costs a certain amount to get the FIRST watt, and then the cost goes down as you add more.

And you don't get it using Harbor Freight stuff......one, because it's basically junk.....and two, because it's overpriced junk. (in my opinion)

And solar has come down CONSIDERABLY in the last few years.

See those panels on the far end of my system....175 watt SolarWorld (Made in the USA) panels. In 2007, the cheapest I could find them anywhere was $800. That was $4.57/watt.

See the fixed mount panels on the close, left side ? Those are SolarWorld 250 watt. They ran $325 in fall of 2012. $1.30watt (I quit building tracking mounts because the cost of panels came down so much it's cheaper to simply put up more panels now.)

TODAY you can buy SolarWorld panels for $0.90/watt, and Suntech (Made in the USA) panels for $0.81/watt.

Solar was a pipe dream and oddity for many years. It isn't any more.

Wonderful and encouraging posts... could you please post some details? Then would be useful posts, as well as encouraging.

Sure. We are selling our place in order to move into a retirement community and be closer to medical specialists, particularly after my stroke two weeks ago, but solar WORKS.

The web site for the house is: offgrid150.simpl.com

There are a lot of good threads here, with lots of info, but the biggest thing that I'd try to impart is that 2014 is the best year of all for supply / technology / price. The problem with that is that anybody with a story to tell that is more than a couple of years old is not your best adviser. Like me. A lot of us have great systems and know a "lot", but my knowledge of what is best/cheapest today isn't going to do you much good.

Now that you're hooked, the second thing is that the biggest bang for your energy saving buck is conservation. Forget solar until you have significantly cut your electric bill/usage. It's a lifestyle change for 99% of the people - the 1% can afford a system that won't make them cut anything back.

I'd start by trying to define what you want, but don't sweat cost or details yet.

Will your system be grid-tied or off-grid?

Batteries or batteryless?

Will you be there frequently to maintain the system?

Cutting edge charge controller or basic?

Data-logging / computer controlled inverter or basic?

Sine-wave or "modified-sine". ( there is no such thing as modified, it's just not sine.)

Self installed or hired?

Living there or only vacation/weekends?

Autostart generator?

Generator or required number of autonomous days?

All in at the beginning or building the system in stages?

Roof, wall or ground mounts? (I'm guessing, but the cost and sometimes complexity of tracking mounts makes me reccomend buying a panel or two more at todays low prices.)

THEN begin to worry about size and details. Enjoy, it's fun to watch tv news about the power outage.

Gray Wolf, very sorry to hear about the stroke. Hoping the effects will be short lived and you can return to your normal day to day activities without much ado.

And best of luck selling your property, too. It's beyond our means and not quite the area we had in mind, but a very nice property, indeed.

Take care.

My system is very small, but big enough for one person living off-grid full-time. System is installed in/on a cargo trailer, currently consists of the following:

(2) Dmsolar 158W panels wired in parallel
(2) Trojan T-105 batteries wired in series for 225 ah @ 12V
(1) Morningstar TriStar 45 PWM charge controller
(1) Sima 150W inverter plugged into cigarette adapter (small inverter to limit no-load draw)
(1) Honda EB3500 generator
(1) Iota DLS/IQ4 45-amp battery charger

I plan on getting two more panels, as my array is undersized for the batteries. Trojan recommends a 10-13% charge rate---at its peak my system only provides ~7.5% of battery rating, but it's enough to charge the batteries in a day now it's sunny. Two more panels will put me in that 10-13% sweet spot. Even so I'll likely have to run my generator from time to time in the winter.

I've cut my electrical consumption to the bone, roughly 20-30 ah/day @ 12V, which is ~10% of battery bank capacity, giving me several days autonomy if needed. LED lights, propane fridge (with a bit of 12V for the controller), 12V water pumps, low wattage fans. Biggest consumers are my computers.

Great info everyone much to think about... much thanks.. I know that this stuff has been talked about before but things change..I was really hoping that the panels have become more efficient and thing more simplified.

I did think of the passive solar idea for heating for the coop. The idea with the sliding dooring and pex tubing on a board. A few problems that I thought of ..

1-how to keep the pipes clean. I thought of putting rocks on top of the pipes to help soak up the heat from the water but how to I keep it clean?

2-regulating the temp- Don't want the birds to get too hot..maybe pipes on only half of the small shed we have them in.

..thinking out loud...

Our birds were happy at -6 for a week last winter with no heat at all. But ... the catch is that we keep about 15 or 20 chickens and ducks in an 8'x8'x8' insulated coop with about 6"+ of wood chips on the floor. Body heat is all they need.

Keeping your chook shed floor clean is easy. Make it a concrete floor. Not that hard - it doesn't need to be structural - 1" thick is good enough. You want pipes? put the pipes in the dirt (sand, or gravel) under the concrete, then put in an inch of concrete, then your shavings or sawdust.

As for temperature control, if you're doing a hybrid installation along with solar, put in a thermostat-controlled valve and pump.

Was this adult birds or chicks? I am talking about chicks.

My main coop. They don't get a heat source until it starts getting -20 w/o the wind chill.

What kind of thermostat-controlled valve and pump? Would those things work with the small systems that some people are talking about above?

No those HF "kits" will not handle pumps that could run long hours.
But a larger system---many more $bucks----could.

If I'm picturing the same sort of setup milady Ziptie is, all she wants is to circulate stored-heat warmed water under the floor. You could do that with a dinky little 12V fishtank pump. Use two contrary-flow pipes to average out heat distribution, if that's a factor.
For reality check, think of a PC fan motor. They are 12V DC, powered off the AC mains power supply. If you had to, you could cobble up something using one of those, but as always the more efficient (and hence also less prone to wear) things are the more direct they are.

Of course, you could set things up with a passive thermosiphon driven purely by differential water temperature running through a car radiator, and a fan blowing air through it, to take the chill off the air; but I think a warm floor would be more efficient.

I'm afraid that you are grossly over estimating the capabilities of a fish tank "pump".

An "El Cid" pump could do it . . .but then when she saw the price of it she might change her mind.

If you can just settle for using it for light I went to Lowe's a few years ago and bought a outdoor solar light set (you know the kind used for lawn and sidewalk's) for less than $25. I just put the little solar panel on top of the coop and use two of the four lights it came with. I put the two lights up in the corners of the coop and they have light nearly all night in the coop. Enough to see with anyways if you need to go inside. In the winter time I will usually get around three hours of light. Probably a lot cheaper than buying the panel, batteries, inverter etc...

Hmmm. not a bad idea wildcat..I guess I should say that the lights are used the lure the broilers/turkeys back into the coop at night.

For the hot water idea. What if I just make it a closed loop system. With some kind of release valve (for releasing built up pressure). Wouldn’t the water circulate through itself due to the water heating?

http://www.amazon.com/Amico-Digital-.../dp/B008999RYY

http://www.amazon.com/TORCHSTAR-12V-...12+v+led+bulbs


Inverters are inefficient.... if all you are going to do is run an LED lamp, get a 12 volt version, and skip the inverter. There are also 12 volt timers. You could run the thing the whole night off of 12v @ 1 amp

__________________
Moving to that big black hole in the night satellite photo. (also the hole in cell phone coverage )