How many acres do I REALLY need? Tell me

Out here in the breadbasket of the country, farmsteads are a dime a dozen as people leave farms for town jobs. The house, barn, a couple old buildings are in the way, no one wants to rent thrm out because of the hassles with bad renters. The farmsteads along blacktop roads get sold as 5 acre lots; those deeper off the beaten path and farther away from town jobs are getting bulldozed down and made into useful farmland.

Where you are, I wonder if any such remains. I suspect the farms in those areas get gobbled up for housing and high end stuff? With the taxes and land so high, the rent on a 5 acre farmstead would have to be incredible high to come out.

Obviously your hubby must have a really good job, so the 5 acre homestead in your area might be affordable for you, those of us out in the boonies have had to adjust to the lower paying jobs out yonder.

You need to worry about zoning in your search, you will be in areas that won't like the smell of fresh farm.

Paul

The big difference between living on a farm and volunteering is that day to day life on a farm can be crazy. And anything but routine. Something to think about is how will your boys deal with farm emergencies? Everybody needs to rush out of bed because a predator got in and attacked your goats or chickens? You can't work for a week due to horrible weather and when it clears up you need to get out and play catch up? Farms can drive you nuts because your schedule is always at the mercy of animals and weather and pests. Volunteer opportunities are nice because you show up and getting handed a hoe or a basket or a shovel and a job. On a farm you have to be thinking constantly about what needs to be done now for a million different reasons.

I would definitely either look at a rental or just increase your volunteering. A day of work every 2 or 3 weeks may be very beneficial to your kids but the everyday strains may be overwhelming.

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"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me." C S Lewis

There is a lot of death as well. A particularly memorable moment is when I was rushing home because of a blizzard. I was concerned for our old dog since he was outside. I happened to mention I hoped he wasn't dead and my then 2 year old said, "We aren't going to eat Coomassie are we?" So death is common place on a farm. You're killing for food or the animals are dying from who knows what. Could be hard for your kids to deal with OP.

All of the bloggers I read about had rented from people they knew.

I think your idea of having a little 'farm' for the sake of the children is a good one, but keep in mind that much of the work and all of the responsibility is going to be YOURS until they are quite a bit older! It sounds like you have some idea of what you will be getting into, but I think the idea of volunteering on other people's places is a good one, at least to get started. If you can find an area you really like (and can afford), rent there for a while (not necessarily a farm, just a house and yard, but see if you can find a place where the landlord will allow you to have a garden and maybe some chickens), and look for volunteer opportunities. Be patient and keep your ears and eyes open, and eventually the right place will come up for sale at the right price! It's much easier to find property (and examine it as closely as it needs to be before making a commitment) if you are already in the area).

Your volunteer time will give you a better idea of how many animals you really want to commit to. They ARE a lot of work, and you aren't likely to make enough off of them to help much with expenses unless you get really good stock, learn how to be an excellent breeder AND an excellent promoter. Your little businessman might take you in that direction eventually, though!

Kathleen

ETA: My youngest daughter is autistic and has some other issues, as well (like lupus, celiac disease, vitiligo). We've found a couple of things that are really helping her a lot, to the point where I have her off her prescription anti-depressant (for the autism) and lupus medication. They are Vit. D3, diatomaceous earth (mix it into smoothies, etc., to get it down), and coconut oil (in all the baking and cooking, and drizzled into smoothies, or melted into tea or hot cocoa -- keep mixing while you drink it!). She's 34, has functioned on the level of a three-year-old for most of her life, and keeps amazing me with new things she does. The other day I'd made cookies, and we'd each had a few on a small plate. I went back into the kitchen to get us each a couple more, and all but one cookie was GONE!! She has never just helped herself to food! She asks me for some, or asks me to get it, but she doesn't just take it, not even apples from the fruit bowl that's always on the table! Then when I made a startled sound, she cringed -- she knew she'd done something she shouldn't have, and was embarrassed about it, and that's new, too! I know it sounds odd to be excited about her stealing cookies and being ashamed of what she'd done, but it's PROGRESS!! That's just the most recent thing -- she's been amazing me on a regular basis ever since we started the D3 about three or four years ago. (I hear her eating an apple in the kitchen right now that she didn't ask for -- yahoo!)

Kathleen

Hm, great thoughts. And volunteering opportunities on farms, how would one go about finding those? Seems like, just as with renting, if you don't already know someone and have trust built up, that might be hard. I wouldn't let any 10 year old come along and milk my goats - a bad milker can easily encourage mastitis in a goat. And did I mention my boys have a lot of maturing to do. I could see them getting into a mud-slinging fight or such thing. I might get infuriated, but that would be my mess. both literally and figuratively, to deal with. I would not relish in managing a relationship, new and growing, with the farmer as my boys mature through the process...

...and am I wrong, but what I experienced in raising my hens and broilers, from milking cows and goats and visiting the farms of friends, is that there is a rhythm to caring for land and animals. A rhythm in the day, of rising and milking and moving with the sun and the season. A rhythm of silent, steady work into which your body falls as you hoe or seed or feed the animals. A rhythm of seasons as you watch a favorite tree through the years bloom and color and nude and bloom again. And the panics and emergencies are ones that give meaning to life and death and give perspective to the other "emergencies" of life - traffic and other molehills that people quickly make into mountains. Am I wrong???

I don't think your wrong... just try to remember that when it is 9F with the wind at 40mph, windchill in the -20F range, and you're hauling water out to the poultry 3x a day and breaking water troughs every other hour for the cattle.....

My farm is a lot of routine, animals love routine. There is a lot of rushing around between rain storms when we have hay to make, even more 18 hour days during planting season and harvest. Those pesky calves always get out of a well built fence etc etc...

But those things have meaning, and no life is stress and emergency free. I am not looking for a bucolic ideal of country life. My kids do really well when things get tough or serious. I would trade all of those difficulties you mention above in a heartbeat for: neighbors playing rap music with offensive lyrics until 4 am EVERY weekend, being yelled at for "taking" someone's parking spot, watching cars zoom by an old lady standing in a cross walk and not even hesitating, and having to explain to my five year old what a transvestite is, because my husband so thoughtfully explained to my older boys in full voice why that woman sounds like a man....I am not looking to run away from the world either. I just know, I know, deep in my momma heart, that this is the direction we need to go in. I love the ideas, volunteering, renting, and have been researching like mad, but like previous posters said, these opportunities are mainly born from relationships. So many farmers markets are on Saturdays, which precludes us from going. I am not a patient person and have growing kids who I want on a farm within the next few months, not the next few years. I think volunteering would be great, like we did in Missouri. I wish I could just go back to Missouri, where I do know many farmers and had built up those relationships over several years, where my family would be welcome to volunteer on a handful of farms in a heartbeat. This is a strange new world over here on the east coast....

I'm sure you're already doing this, but pray. Keep praying, for the Lord to open your eyes to where to look, who to see, what to consider. When searching for a place, we have found it helpful to pray that the right place would be found that 1) helps us reach our goals of sincere, healthy living and 2) helps someone else who needs to find a buyer or renter for their property. In the areas you're looking, surely there are some older farm couples who need the strength that you and your children can provide, and by helping them (even if you only were renting a house nearby on a town lot) you'll be getting the daily experiences you'd like and being a blessing to someone who'll have a lot to teach you all about farm life. Drive around, look for neat little farmsteads, lots of flowers, no toys in the yard, an "old-fashioned" look to the place, then check to see who lives there. You might be someone's answer to prayer

My thoughts as I read this (and I remember your other very heartfelt posts about going back to Missouri!) is that this needs to start happening. Your kids are going to be grown up before you know it and the positive life you can give them in the country way out weighs any other concerns.

Being a transplanted East Coaster, I know how crazy expensive land is in NJ, but it also holds it's value. The NJ farmlands are gorgeous and you'd have great resale value if you're able to get back to Missouri some day. So don't feel like you'd be there forever if that is weighing you down.

You might want to look into finding an existing farm where they could work or volunteer. For example, when I was a kid, I took care of horses at a local rental place in exchange for being able to ride.

Uh no those days happen once or twice a year! Most days are crawling out of bed at dawn with an achy body because you worked too hard the day before but stuff had to be done and you were the only one to do it. You are greeted by the shrieks of animals who think they are dying because they want feed and water and to be milked and let out or let in. There is a pile of stuff to be done today, enough for 3 days really so you sort through it all and pick the 2 biggest and start there. Then you see the goat in the garden because they are Houdinis and they can magically appear where you least want them. She has mowed down all the greens you weeded yesterday. You head in to round her up and she plows down as much as possible on her way out. You fix the fence and mend what you can in the garden and then sit down exhausted for a few minutes trying to figure out how to salvage what you can of your day.

Add in a few kids, a year of drought or a horrible winter and it can knock you down to nothing. The reason most people no longer live on farms is because it is a hard life. You can work yourself to the bone on a huge garden and see one storm destroy months of work. You can put your heart and soul into an animal and see it die. You can do everything right and yet there is so much utterly out of your control.

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"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me." C S Lewis

Do any of you have kids who homeschool and spend most or all of the day on your homestead? What are their days like? What duties/chores do they generally take on? How do they spend their time, both free and purposeful? I would love any examples you all can give.

We opted for 5.1 acres, due to our mutual goals, and lifestyle. That said, we would like to purchase another adjoining 5 acres, eventually, and absolutely have great plans for that extra 5 acres (if we should get it). At our last property, we felt we had enough to do everything we mutually wanted to. This one is almost 2 acres less, but is more usable in certain ways. Although we paid roughly $20k per acre, we got a property covered in marketable timber, a great well, an approved septic, and power to the building site. I posted on another thread, just how much all that was worth, and the property sounds a lot more reasonable. Add natural springs, abundant supply of firewood, and timber to build our log home with, and it sounds much better. We have plenty of room for our fruit orchard, our gardening (traditional, raised bed, and Permaculture), our chickens, and a few other critters.

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Christie Acres
www.SequimForLife.com
http://www.irealtyvirtualbrokers.com...lori-christie/
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Keep in mind most towns in NY you need 8 acres to have livestock.

What about Wayne County, PA or near Stroudsburg, PA? According to Bing Maps, these places are well within 2 hours of NYC and have cheaper taxes than NJ or NY.

I do agree with others who posted that homesteading can be a lot more work than originally planned. Since you currently homeschool, what about making arrangements with some local farmers/growers/ranchers to provide help two days a week? Your sons could learn the skills you want them to learn and you could see fully all that goes into homesteading.

Renting is good too. I would think your best bet on finding a rental is to drive to all the feed & seed stores in the area you want to live. Place a small notice that you are looking for a rental, talk with the owners of the store, and just let some of the customers you meet know what you are looking for. That's what I would do.

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As always, amazing, incredible, invested thoughts and ideas from all. My sons approached me today with two business ideas - one wants to start volunteering at an animal shelter to gain more experience, and become a dog walker, and the other wants to learn old-fashioned shoe-shining techniques from an elderly man we visit each week, and become the erev Shabbos shoe shiner. We will tackle those things first, then hopefully find that volunteer opportunity on a farm, and perhaps the answer is right there. G-d really answered my prayers by having you all suggest these types of solutions, and then having my boys come to me today with just those sorts of ideas. I guess I will have to wait a few more years to get my goats and homestead, but hopefully it is in my future still. thanks all!

This makes a very good point - find out the zoning and regulations for where you are considering living. It's pretty easy. I visited the town offices for every town I was considering buying land in when we were looking. All the info is there. Also find out at the county and state level. Now with the internet it is even easier to do this.

We homeschool, its an integral part of our lives. Doing farm work, construction work (we're always building things) is part of schooling. We work together as a family. There are things that different people specialize in such as my wife takes the pigs to butcher and does deliveries. There are many things we do together as a team as well such as herding and sorting pigs like we did early this morning when we loaded them up to go to market - a weekly task. We built our house together, everyone pitching in. We're building our on-farm butcher shop together.

A day is basically breakfast together, morning chores for farm stuff, lunch together, afternoon construction and schooling. We divide schooling up into units that are about half an hour give or take. They can be many different things from computer work to book learning to music to science experiments, etc. No two days are the same.

Cheers,

-Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/

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SugarMtnFarm.com -- Pastured Pigs, Poultry, Sheep, Dogs and Kids

Highlands, that is exactly what I thought a day would be like. Not much different than our homeschool day in the city, minus the meaningful labor. My boys focus best on school when their bodies are tired and they have been active in between academic sessions. This is what I struggle to provide in the city. They help with all household chores, have other physical outlets in the day, but not much that is meaningful and really HARD work, the kind they actually enjoy. They are so proud in a difficult job well done. Thanks for sharing.