Buying land with unpermitted cabin on it - problem?

**highlands** · #21 03/30/14, 02:28 PM

If permitting is a problem I would be incline to buy land somewhere else where permits are not required.

65284 · #22 03/30/14, 10:07 PM

Are you certain the cabin was built after zoning was enacted?

Yvonne's hubby · #23 03/31/14, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highlands

If permitting is a problem I would be incline to buy land somewhere else where permits are not required.

Eggzacktalootly!

geo in mi · #24 03/31/14, 06:14 AM

Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Then....."Gee, Commissioner, it got struck by lightning last week and burned to the ground".......

geo

Ambereyes · #25 03/31/14, 06:47 AM

That's why I love where I live, no county building permits.

farminghandyman · #26 03/31/14, 06:57 AM

some may depend on the size of the cabin as well, some smaller buildings do not need permits depending on the county,

your realtor should know, but calling the county should clear it up as well, if you have not made any commitment on it yet, call and find out what the revenue generating rules are for the county, or area?

Michael W. Smith · #27 03/31/14, 01:04 PM

I would be more along the lines of buy the land minus whatever the seller is charging for the cabin and then don't say a word. If anything ever would come of it, you can always plead "It was here when I bought it and I didn't know it didn't have a building permit."

If worse comes to worse, and the county finds you and wants to cause a problem, invite them out to the cabin because you "Want to show them something with the cabin." Once they are there, dump gasoline inside the building and light a match.

Problem solved.

With the "eyes in the sky" the government already knows it's there - unless it was built under dense pine trees. If the county finds it, plead ignorance and the land was bought "as is".

simi-steading · #28 03/31/14, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjean

So, I was wondering if anyone has ever had to actually tear down a building, or if the county has legal rights to come onto private property and destroy a building.

You may hold the title and deed.,... you pay your taxes, but when it all boils down to the scum at the bottom of the pot, the government can pretty much do what ever it wants concerning your land... and if they can't, they will make it impossible for you to do anything..

haypoint · #29 03/31/14, 01:38 PM

How is it that you came to know it is an unpermitted building?
Department of Environmental Quality has made people remove homes built in Wetlands. There are exceptions/exemptions from many zoning regulations. What is the will of the community? If you bought a place that a number of neighbors want gone, it'll get ugly. If no one seems to care, might get overlooked.

In my township, a guy bought 80 acres and hauled an old 16 by 16 cabin onto it. Zoning, in an attempt to discourage such use requires a 700 sq ft minimum. He was told to move it, but requested a variance. He was allowed to keep it two years, while he built a house. But he got sick, sold the property. Then those people couldn't afford it, sold it again. Kind of hard for the Township to make the third owner tear it down. Currently, there is no community will to support zoning, so the old cabin still sits there, been 20 or so years now.
Another case a guy built a home on the edge of his 40 acres. Neighbor, owns 80 acres, discovered the house was built on her property by about 8 feet. She took it to Court, but the Judge made her sell him a half acre of her 80, rather than made him move off her land.
My point is, each situation is different and hard to tell how it might end up.

snoozy · #30 03/31/14, 02:27 PM

Remarkably enlightened move by the judge!

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

How is it that you came to know it is an unpermitted building?
Department of Environmental Quality has made people remove homes built in Wetlands. There are exceptions/exemptions from many zoning regulations. What is the will of the community? If you bought a place that a number of neighbors want gone, it'll get ugly. If no one seems to care, might get overlooked.

In my township, a guy bought 80 acres and hauled an old 16 by 16 cabin onto it. Zoning, in an attempt to discourage such use requires a 700 sq ft minimum. He was told to move it, but requested a variance. He was allowed to keep it two years, while he built a house. But he got sick, sold the property. Then those people couldn't afford it, sold it again. Kind of hard for the Township to make the third owner tear it down. Currently, there is no community will to support zoning, so the old cabin still sits there, been 20 or so years now.
Another case a guy built a home on the edge of his 40 acres. Neighbor, owns 80 acres, discovered the house was built on her property by about 8 feet. She took it to Court, but the Judge made her sell him a half acre of her 80, rather than made him move off her land.
My point is, each situation is different and hard to tell how it might end up.

JoePa · #31 03/31/14, 02:53 PM

Must have been Judge Judy =

cjean · #32 03/31/14, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

How is it that you came to know it is an unpermitted building?
Department of Environmental Quality has made people remove homes built in Wetlands. There are exceptions/exemptions from many zoning regulations. What is the will of the community? If you bought a place that a number of neighbors want gone, it'll get ugly. If no one seems to care, might get overlooked.

In my township, a guy bought 80 acres and hauled an old 16 by 16 cabin onto it. Zoning, in an attempt to discourage such use requires a 700 sq ft minimum. He was told to move it, but requested a variance. He was allowed to keep it two years, while he built a house. But he got sick, sold the property. Then those people couldn't afford it, sold it again. Kind of hard for the Township to make the third owner tear it down. Currently, there is no community will to support zoning, so the old cabin still sits there, been 20 or so years now.
Another case a guy built a home on the edge of his 40 acres. Neighbor, owns 80 acres, discovered the house was built on her property by about 8 feet. She took it to Court, but the Judge made her sell him a half acre of her 80, rather than made him move off her land.
My point is, each situation is different and hard to tell how it might end up.

We were told outright that it was not built to code, and without a permit. But it's a beautiful cabin. And as far as I know, the neighbors could care less - you should see their places, lol. Everyone does it. And at least one of them has built over onto a neighbor's land (you can tell by the county mapping site). That seems to be a common occurrence in that county, actually.

I don't know, I guess we'll just do some more research....

PricklyThistle · #33 03/31/14, 05:23 PM

You pay a mortgage on property for years, pay taxes on it forever and then they still tell you what you can't do with it. Wonder when it finally becomes "yours". Oh...that's right....never.

haypoint · #34 03/31/14, 08:57 PM

You pay a mortgage on property for years to the Bank, that was paying interest on someone's savings a few years back., pay taxes on it forever to pay to run the schools, mow the park, maybe buy a fire truck from time to time and grade the roads while keeping a police force working.and then the neighbors of your community adopted minimum standards so there is some sense of pride in the community and protection from blight and industrial development, still tell you what you can't do with it. Wonder when it finally becomes "yours". Oh...that's right, when there are no more roads, schools, police, fire stations, bridge building, Community Center or parks.

PricklyThistle · #35 03/31/14, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

Wonder when it finally becomes "yours". Oh...that's right, when there are no more roads, schools, police, fire stations, bridge building, Community Center or parks.

Sounds like a fine day. Beer at "My House".

wharton · #36 04/07/14, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

You pay a mortgage on property for years to the Bank, that was paying interest on someone's savings a few years back., pay taxes on it forever to pay to run the schools, mow the park, maybe buy a fire truck from time to time and grade the roads while keeping a police force working.and then the neighbors of your community adopted minimum standards so there is some sense of pride in the community and protection from blight and industrial development, still tell you what you can't do with it. Wonder when it finally becomes "yours". Oh...that's right, when there are no more roads, schools, police, fire stations, bridge building, Community Center or parks.

Spot on. We just did an extended trip from the northeast, through the southeast and out to Texas. It's not hard to find the places that have low taxes, and all the freedom you want. Then again there are a few other commonalities like horrendous roads, people living in squalor, a preponderance of substandard housing, an amazing number of dirty industries (Cancer alley, anybody?) more trash on the roadsides that I seen anywhere else in North America, public structures in very remote areas that are covered in graffiti, and a whole lot of other indicators of low quality of life.
A well run community, where taxes are fair, and reasonable, is not hard to find in many parts of this country. thinking that nirvana can be found in the parts of this country that operate in near third world conditions, just because you save a couple bucks a month in taxes, will always baffle me?

**highlands** · #37 04/07/14, 02:34 PM

Some of us don't want fancy roads and other things of high living. We prefer unpaved dirt roads for one as they are far less expensive, easier to maintain and more environmentally friendly. Problem is urbanites who move out here and bring their city ways and expectations with them. Ours is a well run community without zoning where people can live fairly freely. You may not like it and look down on it so just stay away.

wharton · #38 04/07/14, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highlands

Some of us don't want fancy roads and other things of high living. We prefer unpaved dirt roads for one as they are far less expensive, easier to maintain and more environmentally friendly. Problem is urbanites who move out here and bring their city ways and expectations with them. Ours is a well run community without zoning where people can live fairly freely. You may not like it and look down on it so just stay away.

You're right. My comments clearly addressed life in beautiful rural Vermont.

Which means that you are of course, also correct about how I look down on it

As a rural Pennsylvanian, located within commuting distance to NYC, believe me, I have seen issues with "urbanites" that hopefully you won't ever encounter, even in your worst dreams. Finally, I think you will find that your overall tax burden is significantly higher, and contributes to a far higher quality of life than a lot of the areas I was referring to. I was just talking to a teacher in the rural south who commented how tough it is for many of her students to get back to school after Christmas break, and they frequently end up with stomach issues. The problem being that they basically have very little access to food at home, and end up with stomach aches when they return to school and get their first real breakfast and lunch that they have seen in the last two weeks. Sounds a lot like Vermont, right

BTW, no zoning is great, until opportunistic scum decide to make you a target of something that they can force on your community since everybody else has protected themselves and you didn't. In the last decade one of the last no-zoning holdout townships on our area did two horrifically expensive battles with outsiders. One announced that they were moving to a very remote farm to do hazardous chemical blending and repackaging. Another bought thousands of acres to build a racetrack and club for uber-wealthy exotic cars enthusiasts who would spend their weekends roaring around a pristine wilderness area with their Ferrari's and other multi-million dollar toys. In both cases the backers wouldn't of given the area a thought if there had been a bit of rational zoning protection in place. It's all fun, games and freedom loving until a Pig CAFO sets up a few hundred feet from your bedroom window.

**highlands** · #39 04/07/14, 06:41 PM

You sound like a nightmare. You're pushing your values and your desire for zoning on other people. Perhaps zoning is needed around your area to protect people from other people. We don't want it or need it here. You sound like just what I was talking about when I referenced the urbanites who move in and try and take over.

wharton · #40 04/08/14, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highlands

You sound like a nightmare. You're pushing your values and your desire for zoning on other people. Perhaps zoning is needed around your area to protect people from other people. We don't want it or need it here. You sound like just what I was talking about when I referenced the urbanites who move in and try and take over.

You sound like a nightmare.

Really? Seriously???? This is the response from a alledged adult who is supposedly moderates this site. Talk about a shocking, and terribly disappointing comment from a moderator. I would imagine that, if any regular member posted such an offensive attack, it would be removed immediately. I guess, this is a case of "do as I say, not as I do" Eh?

Now, let's return to the facts here. I push none of my values on anyone, and since comprehension is an issue, we can review. I pointed out specific examples of what happens when you become a holdout who doesn't want, or see the need for zoning. Quite literally, in the examples I stated, the township supervisors who resisted getting involved with zoning until it was too late are folks that I know, do business with, and worked with in our Boy Scout troop. They are good folks who didn't see the need to protect the community until it was too late. Then it took hundreds of thousands in legal fees to stop the outsiders from destroying the place. They learned the hard way, which hopefully you won't ever face, but now they have properly protected our rural environment and heritage.

I know it sounds crazy to some, but a lot of what zoning did here was to give a tool to the locals to protect themselves from move-ins that didn't want horses next door, or any junk vehicles on the property, or any grass over 4" tall. When they come marching in to the township building demanding streetlights, sidewalks, and getting the neighbor's old junk cleaned up, the township can say, "no, it is what it is, it is acceptable as is, and in our regulations, sorry if you have an issue with it"

As for your comment about folks that move in and try to take over, it would be pretty funny if you had any clue about who I am. Just because I like being protected from CAFOs, dirty industry, and a whole host of other trash that outsiders tried to bring here, certainly doesn't make me a
flatlander.

I stand by what I said. There are a lot of clueless folks here that strut around with their "don't tread on me", "I don't need any rules, or any government, or zoning, or taxes, or blah, blah, blah" until the notice gets nailed to the power pole at the end of the road, and you learn that a CAFO, or landfill, or medical waste incinerator, or........... is being built in your area, and there isn't a thing you can do about it.

Given that you live in a progressive state with a lot of decent folks and values that run deep, I would have to assume you weren't raised there?