Have you built a Butt and Pass Log Home? Planning to...

logbuilder · #61 03/13/14, 01:38 AM

Lori,

My question about how you are going to run electric is pretty important. In stick construction, you just run in cavities and drill thru studs. In a log wall, you can't do that. Have you discussed this with hubby? I've seen one inspector that required metal conduit on the wall face and boxes outside too. That was in WA but not the norm I don't think. Another way is to lay the wire in the gaps where you will later chink. Inspectors don't like this since you will be putting in lots of nails for the chinking. I've heard that some get away with the conduit in the gaps and then chinked so you don't see it. And how about outlets and switch boxes? Going to mount them on the face of the wall or do you have some plan for recessing them?

Just think how different it is ... and how you approach it.

Generally, plumbing can be dealt with thru interior walls. Since you are butt and pass, you don't need to worry about the slip joints that swedish cope requires, due to shrinkage.

ChristieAcres · #62 03/14/14, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logbuilder

Lori,

My question about how you are going to run electric is pretty important. In stick construction, you just run in cavities and drill thru studs. In a log wall, you can't do that. Have you discussed this with hubby? I've seen one inspector that required metal conduit on the wall face and boxes outside too. That was in WA but not the norm I don't think. Another way is to lay the wire in the gaps where you will later chink. Inspectors don't like this since you will be putting in lots of nails for the chinking. I've heard that some get away with the conduit in the gaps and then chinked so you don't see it. And how about outlets and switch boxes? Going to mount them on the face of the wall or do you have some plan for recessing them?

Just think how different it is ... and how you approach it.

Generally, plumbing can be dealt with thru interior walls. Since you are butt and pass, you don't need to worry about the slip joints that swedish cope requires, due to shrinkage.

Since each County is different regarding codes, we won't be making decisions on anything regarding wiring, plumbing, etc..., until we have actually reviewed the code and met with an Inspector. Zero work will be done without consulting with and confirming it will meet code. Assumptions can be very costly, not going there. So, it really doesn't matter what DH did the first time, things have since changed...

When we move forward with the process, I will post updates, but everyone should keep in mind differences in codes nationwide!

ChristieAcres · #63 03/14/14, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WV Hillbilly

Thanks , you can buy coils to install inside a woodstove to build a similar system to what he built . Has he ever said whether he thought a satisfactory system could be built that way ?

DH is less trusting of purchasing what he can fabricate himself. I'd recommend contacting others who have purchased the coils and modified their wood stoves, so you can get firsthand feedback. I can only give feedback on how our wood stove works.

logbuilder · #64 03/14/14, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorichristie

Since each County is different regarding codes, we won't be making decisions on anything regarding wiring, plumbing, etc..., until we have actually reviewed the code and met with an Inspector. Zero work will be done without consulting with and confirming it will meet code. Assumptions can be very costly, not going there. So, it really doesn't matter what DH did the first time, things have since changed...

When we move forward with the process, I will post updates, but everyone should keep in mind differences in codes nationwide!

You will find nothing in the IBC about building with logs and how you run electrical. Ask an inspector and I'd expect him/her to laugh. I'll remain anxious to hear how you are going to handle it. Please let us know when you have it figured out.

ChristieAcres · #65 03/14/14, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logbuilder

You will find nothing in the IBC about building with logs and how you run electrical. Ask an inspector and I'd expect him/her to laugh. I'll remain anxious to hear how you are going to handle it. Please let us know when you have it figured out.

We are fortunately building where there are a LOT of log homes. One of our goals is to meet with owners who have recent built approved log homes, Butt and Pass style, in the same area we will live in. You would be surprised what I can find out; neither of us are gambling types... Since I am in real estate, that will also help.

DH built his first log home to code. He is very intent to build according to required specs (he will exceed code in some instances). One of our current neighbors is a Contractor, and he has agreed to assist in any we we need. He works for the fire department. I am surprised how many friends and family members have stepped forward. DH will get as much help as he permits.

Once our property closes, DH and I will get more serious about our floor plan, but we are in complete agreement, otherwise (1 story with a loft on a tall crawlspace with dirt floor, covered porches on three sides, covered porch off the loft, ). Neither of us wants an attached garage, just an unattached carport. Everything will be one step at a time...

Hoopjohn · #66 03/14/14, 02:54 PM

Let me first say that I have found Skip Ellsworth to be a snake oil salesman unworthy of even a morsel of my trust. His old website made outlandish claims along the lines of "build this house for $10,000 and sell it for $160,000" and of course as someone that built professional handcrafted log homes, the idea of learning all the intricacies of building a log home in a weekend is preposterous.
But having said that, I am happy to hear that the Ellsworth method homes are still standing after 30 years and appear to be holding up satisfactory. I happen to think logs are VERY resilient and will last hundreds of years if properly cared for. This means keeping water (rain backsplash, driven rain, snow, etc) off the logs other than temporary occurences.
I will always think of Ellsworth as a very skilled con man. But I do have to admit that the proof is in the pudding. The fact that his building style has 30 year old log homes still standing without major issues isn't lost on me.

I have a background in the log home industry. Mainly building full scribe log homes, but also the butt & pass (not Ellsworth's version of it).

My 24' x 40' garage is built using vertical logs. My 28' x 42' house is built using the "D" style butt & pass logs with a maximum length of 16'.
I built the garage using vertical logs.....simply because I liked the design, and its a whole lot easier to horse around 8' logs rather than 40' logs.
In construction of Swedish cope log homes, each log needs to be moved a minimum of 5 times to insure a good tight fit. Professionals of course know shortcuts.
But the logistics of building with full length logs was a nightmare I wanted no part of when it came to building my own house. If I would have had use of a crane at my disposal for months, I likely would have built the handcrafted full scribe method.

It boiled down to this for me. How could I build a quality log home, and do it safely? I have seen people building log homes that involved notoriously dangerous safety practices. Things such as walking on logs, high above the ground, while operating a chain saw.
The butt & pass method (NOT the Elsworth version) was my choice. Most of my logs were 12' in length, and roughly squared (3 sided actually) to 10" x 10". I built a lifting device using an electric hoist that I purchased from harbor freight. It was a tripod on 10" rubber wheels, and I could easily maneuver and fit the logs all by myself. My log moving/lifting device cost less than $200 to build.

This is what worked for me. I've been living in my log house since Jan of 2007.

If I were to ever build another log structure, I would most likely use the vertical log building method, constructing the lower 2' of the structure in a stick built version, and having (easily movable) 6' vertical logs to complete the walls. Most of the electrical would go in the lower 2feet stick built area.

I'll say this. Use a log building method you're comfortable with. Don't jeopardize your safety or health by taking unnecessary risks. Also keep in eye dialed in on the future. Because as we all know, life happens. We may indeed have plans to live in a house until our dying breath. All I'll say is design something that won't languish unsold on the market, should one have to ever put it up for sale.

ChristieAcres · #67 03/14/14, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoopjohn

I'll say this. Use a log building method you're comfortable with. Don't jeopardize your safety or health by taking unnecessary risks. Also keep in eye dialed in on the future. Because as we all know, life happens. We may indeed have plans to live in a house until our dying breath. All I'll say is design something that won't languish unsold on the market, should one have to ever put it up for sale.

Yes, we have decided on this method precisely due to DH's success and him being comfortable with it. He was fortunate, but never injured logging all the logs or in building his home. The A-Frame Log Boom he built? When he was done with it, he gave it to one of his friends to use. That Log Boom was used to build two log homes and is still at the friends' house!

I do get the skepticism, trust me on that, and I have zero experience building.

Up front, had I not seen the homes in person, already, knowing my DH and the other two guys had ONLY taken the Skip Ellsworth class in person before they built their Butt and Pass homes? I would never have believed it possible to built a house after a weekend class. However, if you go to the Site and check out the member log homes, also read the countless testimonials from those who have take the class, built homes, and lived in them many years? You will find a lack of criticism or skepticism. I asked DH, "Honey, did you really learn enough to build your home yourself by taking that class?"

"Absolutely, and I built it using his methods, it met code, and it is still there isn't it?!"

Keep in mind, my DH was in his late twenties, and never built any structure before that class. His log home not only passed and was permitted (afterwards, too), but it has appraised for up to $750,000. The cost to build? $20,000, but DH didn't go high end for finishing it out. Right now, his log home appraises for around $500,000, but with the market picking up, the value will also. One guy's log home is around $500,000 and the other $600,000 (a bit fancier). I don't know what they spent, but could find out. When we build this time, using the timber on the property, we will be spending around $30,000. The home will be smaller and be on a more expensive foundation (tall crawlspace with concrete walls, tall enough to walk in). We figure just the foundation will cost around $15,000. One never knows for sure, how much will or will not be spent building it yourself...

$10,000? If you have your own timber or can get it relatively inexpensively, go bargain shopping for appliances, avoid hiring sub-contractors, don't build an expensive foundation, use mostly logs and rough hewn wood, use little sheet rock (if any), and build it a modest size? Possible, but a sales price cannot be estimated when our Country differs so much in property values!

We already have our kitchen cabinets, all counters will be concrete (our neighbor is the Contractor/ Fire Chief, who offered to assist us. He won't be doing it for DH, but working alongside him. "Tom" is a great guy, DH has helped out quite a bit. We already own all our furniture, will not buy new bathroom cabinets or anything new like that. The only thing we will likely buy new is a 6 burner gas stovetop for our kitchen. DH will be building all sorts of things for our home. I am estimating $30,000 for lumber, the crawlspace, roofing materials, and windows (we also have excellent windows we can use). DH will build the doors, some of the windows (we have 69 tempered glass panels, too). We will also have built-ins, like bookcases, cabinets, etc... All deck furniture will be hand-built with our own timber. The forest needs thinned badly, so there is enough for railings, balusters, etc...

The word is presently out on what we will be spending. Since it will be out of pocket and our adventure has just begun, eventually there will be progress to follow. For now, we are in the planning stages.