Have you built a Butt and Pass Log Home? Planning to...

Originally Posted by KMA1

I have a log home, not but and pass, but Appalachian style squared hewn logs with half dovetail corners. Finished logs are about 12" face and 6" thick. Also used the steel rod to lock the wall logs together. Been living in it for 20 years with no problems or air infiltration. I used Permachink chinking material which is latex based and my logs were cut hewn and we put them up green. No problem with shrinking, settling or chinking. I am familiar with Elsworth's view on using whole logs, but that is not the only valid thought on the subject.

Good look with your building. Hope to see some pictures.

Originally Posted by just_sawing

No matter what you do with a Log it is waiting to move.
When two logs are place together in more than one spot there is some prying twisting or simple leverage being forced between them.
Gravity is the great equalizer.
The joint of a butt and pass is solely as tight as the fastener use to secure it.
The pass log is isolated as a lever to try to be pulled away from the joint by external forces.
Gravity and the butt and pass joint are not friends.
This sounds like I and against the process but I am not. The japanese in their jointery use such extreme joints that they work to tighten their self without fasteners. This is the goal that all of us have but time isn't our friend either and who has a half a day to carve each joint.
For me what I want in a log joint that without fasteners they stay together and if a horse rubbed against them would not be any worse for wear. That takes the joint to the tried and true 15 degree double notch. With the end jigs and light chainsaws these are hard to beat.
Don't let what I have written be a deterrent to your dream because your dreams are what not only holds your world together but are the inspiration for others just starting.

Originally Posted by lorichristie

Up front, I appreciate your concern. Building a home is a huge investment of time and resources, financial and otherwise.

Are the homes you are referring to Butt and Pass ones? Reason I ask, is none of the 3 homes I have mentioned experienced any issues. What I have been told is one has to have the experience of actually building and owning a Butt and Pass Log Home to know first hand the difference. I can only respond with what I have been told. I know the men who built the other two, have seen the interiors and exteriors of all three homes. None of the guys told me of any issues with shrinkage causing issues. I did go on the Site I posted a link to and think that likely explains why and the difference with the technique. Butt and Pass cannot be compare with any other method as it isn't done the same way, utilizes rebar, and the joints are different. The answer may be in the "Why Good Log Homes Don't Have Settling Problems." Only thing DH told me about was a 1/4" difference in the airspace between the logs over a 3 year period, zero issues with shifting or settling. That is why he told me that we would only put the insulation between the logs and wait to chink. There is info at the Log Home Builders Association website on building with green logs.

DH took me to see his former log home and the other two friends' log homes when we first got married. I have seen one of them a few times. These log homes are in a different County and quite a drive. It was after seeing the homes, especially the one I saw more than once (my favorite design), that I was sold on building one someday. I was very impressed by what these three guys did with a rectangular footprint (all of them were uniquely different from each other). DH builds gates/railings/etc...just a fraction of what he does for business (self-employed).

Originally Posted by WV Hillbilly

The home I referred to that my friend built & I was actually on site to see assembled was a butt & pass . It was what I guess you would call a kit home . A log home manufacturer provided the logs to the home-site pre-cut & numbered . The manufactures employees that delivered the logs also laid the first three courses with my friend , a carpenter my friend had hired to help & I watching to see exactly how it was done . It went together slick as a whistle .
It was built on top of a full basement with poured cement basement walls . I also recall that the traditionally built studded interior walls had threaded steel rods with adjustment nuts for the purpose of adjusting for settlement & there was a gap left between the top of these walls & the roof beams .

Originally Posted by biggkidd

Great thread can't wait to see the pictures. Please be sure when you start building to take and post lots of pictures. From cutting the tree to finished house. I would love to build a log home, don't think my health would stand it unless I trade for less years by using steroids. I have MS and love to build do things myself but these days it's often a challenge just to get the kids off to school.

Thanks
Larry

Originally Posted by WV Hillbilly

Are you planning on using the tight pinned method ? I wasn't aware of this method & just read a little about it ?

Originally Posted by WV Hillbilly

Are you planning on using the tight pinned method ? I wasn't aware of this method & just read a little about it ? Also I find the topic interesting but not really interested in researching hours of information . I also just read that properly built log homes didn't need any sealer or maintenance on the outside .
My friends house was sealed with the recommended sealer & within a couple years was full of wood borers , those things that look like a big bumblebee . My niece had a log house that had one wall practically destroyed by woodpeckers , I don't know if that wall was full of insects or the woodpeckers just enjoyed pecking on it . I have heard of woodpeckers , pecking on metal roofs & other things that you wouldn't think had anything to do with feeding .
I assume you already have researched these things & can answer most of these type questions if you don't mind being bothered with them . If you don't have time or feel like answering questions I understand completely & won't bother you with more .

Originally Posted by WV Hillbilly

Are you going to have the logs kiln dried or are you going to wait a few years for the logs to season & dry properly ?

Originally Posted by lorichristie

Naturally, there are different challenges and issues folks face living in different areas of our Country. I don't currently live in a log home, as you know, and am planning on meeting the other two guys in a month or so. When we meet, I will be asking questions about their own experiences living here. That is far more relevant to us, getting firsthand information from those have actually faced living in Butt and Pass Log Homes for 30 years, especially after having built those homes themselves (local issues with pests, etc...). I will post after meeting with them. DH has joined the Log Home Builders Association. To be a member, one must attend a seminar (back then, called classes). This will enable us both to gain more insight and also get plenty of feedback. There is also a public side to this Site with a lot of good information to utilize regarding this log building style.

I can tell you we have had no issues in 8 years with woodpeckers pecking the metal roofs on our buildings (2 cabins 10 x 20, one with a covered front porch, a double carport, and a double car sized shop). Zero damage to the metal roofs by anything (DH took down all at-risk trees some time ago). One of our garden cabins, the 1.5 story one with the covered porch, is sided with rough hewn Douglas Fir. We have experienced no insect damage to that building.

The log homes your refer to...were the logs whole or modified in any way?

Originally Posted by logbuilder

With butt and pass, you can use logs that have not been dried or seasoned.

Originally Posted by logbuilder

I too took Skip's class back when he was teaching it at his huge log house. Over ten years ago.

Although DH took the class 30 years ago, he feels confident to build another log home, even better than the 1st one. I am glad you posted as one who has also taken a class with Skip as the instructor. DH said he was quite a character.

I have built a butt and pass cabin as well as a swedish cope log house. I'm in Darrington. Where are you going to build?

Do you have pics of your Butt and Pass Cabin? Which one are you living in? There were questions of insect and bird issues, had any? Great to hear you built two different types of log homes!!!

My broad advise:

• Buy a forklift that will lift as high as your tallest wall. Sell it when you are done
  
  DH built his 2 story + loft with a 1 ton Dodge truck with a log boom attached to it (DH built that and gave it to one of this two friends, who used it, too). He did all his own logging, used that old truck to skid them, too. He currently owns an F250 which he may or may not use. If we can get a forklift, that is certainly preferable!
  
• Buy your rebar already cut into several sizes. Costs very little more.
  
  Yep, would save a lot of time/labor. DH has done business with Everett Steel for many years. He will price out the difference, but has the machinery to cut the rebar himself, too.
  
• I pounded all my rebar with a sledge hammer. Now days, you can get a hammer drill and it is much easier
  
  Will ask DH how he plans to do that and mention that to him! Anything to save the man from beating himself up more!
  
• Make sure you put big eaves all around
  
  Yes, exceeding 3 feet, very important!!! Glad you posted that for others to also read along with all your suggestions. DH is building wrap-a-round covered porches around three side, a covered smaller porch entry on the 4th side, and also a covered deck off the loft.[/I]
  
• Think about exactly how you are going to do your electrical and plumbing. That can be quite the challenge in butt and pass walls
  
  DH already built a Butt and Pass Log Home, so has been through it all. He laughed about the trusses and the sheet rock...DH saw how fast the crew could do it (hired a few guys) and literally said he got out of their way. DH's DS is 6'5" and has a lot of sheet rock hanging experience. Another buddy of his is an Electrician and wired the first log home.
  
  
• You'll get a lot of checking and twisting with doug fir. Don't be surprised
  
  DH built his first log home with Douglas Fir, so been through that.
  
• I've tried several ways of debarking and I always come back to the drawknife
  
  DH built his "log peeling tools," and had a big log peeling party. He told me that was his plan for next time. I don't know how his tool would compare to a drawknife, but am curious.
  
• Perma chink is quite expensive compared to mortar. If using mortar, don't skrimp on the nails. Use more than you think you need. And use galvanized nails